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Why do we play 40K and do we want to win most of the time? Not many gamers show up at a game and want to lose.

This is besides: testing a list, A silly/funny army, using cool models that suck. **I did a conversion to make "SoB Inquisitor Lord Karamazov". His stats look lame but I want to play him once. I will probibly lose the game.

I am not talking about people who Have to always win.
This is more for players who desire/feel: It would be Nice to win the game. It would be nice to win the turnament.

Do players play by the RAW "letter of the law" ? Do we screw ourself to use the exact ruling.

This came up in"you make the call: flamer templates.[ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/316220.page ] The link? second posting byScott-S6. The illistration of models and templates

The rules say we must cover as much of the target model as possiable.
The set up is a model with a flamer shooting at the Side Rhino (main target) and hitting the troops behind it.

Playing Hard Core, RAW: do we turn the flamer template to Cover Most of the Rhino (from side to back corner) and Not hit any of the troops behind it.

After Thought : I enjoy the hobby part of it most. Some are into conversions, doing cool paint jobs. Enjoy reading about the game/Background. These are really good reasons to play 40K. I am talking about the gaming part.

40k gives me something to look forward to and challenges me. I don't want to win, I know I'm going to win (really i dont care as long as i take down a few units and my entire army doesn't get crushed) I play by RAW, as long as the army FAQ's count. Sometimes I don't feel like looking up a rule (and neither does my opponent) and i go with my gut.

I always play to win, however I'm not always a dick.

In my experience, the worst players to play against are the ones who tell you they don't play to win or some variation on that. They're the ones who will freak out when they lose a game and complain that your Codex is full of cheap rules (like 3+ saves), or your army is an unbalanced mess of cheese regardless of what it is, or something other than they weren't playing very well. The rules-lawyer and weird exploits types can be annoying, but I've never had one of them do the temper tantrum and insults the way the 'don't play to win' crowd does.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:In my experience, the worst players to play against are the ones who tell you they don't play to win or some variation on that. They're the ones who will freak out when they lose a game and complain that your Codex is full of cheap rules (like 3+ saves), or your army is an unbalanced mess of cheese regardless of what it is, or something other than they weren't playing very well. The rules-lawyer and weird exploits types can be annoying, but I've never had one of them do the temper tantrum and insults the way the 'don't play to win' crowd does.

Truth

Never thrown a tantrum and I don't play to win.

I play to have fun, but I'm not going to intentionally try to lose. I can get frustrated as anyone else if everything in the game is screwing me over though.

I'm one of those people who's smug enough to post their W/L/D in their signature. I do that mostly to keep track of games played though. You can see I'm generally winning as much as I'm losing, and I'm just tracking it for fun. I guess I just like statistics.

When it comes to actual games, I'm generally not going to bust your balls over the little things, like that ridiculous flamer/rhino discussion. Whatever man, it's a game.

I always play to win, wont let someone break the rules to fix a mistake they have made or field cups as drop pods, but Ill never be an ass if they play a fair game and win.

Sure I'll argue the cover save if it needs arguing, But if your space marines dont have frag nades stuck on them, IDC

I play Tau. I don't play to win. I play to lose on My terms.

I play to tantrum.

Sometimes I win.

The two are rarely related.

I usually always have that feeling that I want to win, but I'm never a jerk about it. Sometimes though I get frustrated over the fate the dice gods place for me. On the thought of playing RAW, I usually do although most of the times I'm to busy to look up things and just either roll for it or just agree with my opponent, and I know that there are some people who are serious dicks about that stuff and typically make the game less fun.

I play to win......I also play to have fun.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Just like honesty and politeness aren't.

I play to win, but I'm a hobbiest first. To that extent, a cool modelling oppurtunity will always be higher on my priority list than how good it is in game.

However, I will do my very best to make said unit useful. I won't purposely cause myself to be at a disadvantage.

I really don't mind losing in 40k, so long as I have fun doing it. But manufactured losses and victories are not what I'd consider 'fun.'

I play to have fun first and win a close second, and as you can see I win as much as I lose or draw.

I've only ever lost my cool once, and that was in Mordheim when I lost all my heroes in a single battle (one of whom permanently died)

Actually... feth Mordheim, that game's stupid

I try to play to have fun. I know I'm not a good player, so to that end I usually try to play for a draw and try to not be totally humiliated. But I do win occasionally, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy winning.

As for RAW, yep, we stick to them. It's the only fair way. Not saying we don't screw things up occasionally, but we stick to the rules.

First and foremost, I play the game to have fun. Sure if I win it's nice. But if the game was fun and both players had a blast, then its a win-win to me!!!

I love winning but I love still not knowing the outcome of the game on turn four. I'm pretty ambivalent towards crushing wins or defeats since its usually poor/hot dice or my opponent didn't bring enough anti-tank. The best games are games where both sides are all beat up and some sly maneuvering in the last turn or two makes a slight victory for one side I have a great time even if a loose games like that. The only thing I hate is when some one gives up when I think they still have a decent shot at beating me. I would rather have what looks like a victory for me turn into a defeat over someone who quits on turn three any day of the week.

I play to kill toy soldiers.

Really, it excites the inner nerd/power freak to see little plastic men live and die by my command.

In all seriousness though, great way to spend time with friends/meet new friends, and I most certainly don't play to lose (Though my Cryx army finds winning appalling, lol)

I see people enjoy playing.
About Winning: Would you play extreme-RAW ?
If you are shooting at the side of a Rhino and a unit hiding behind it. RAW say to cover most of the orignial target (Rhino)
Would you move the template to cover more of the Rhino And hit less (or none)of the troops behind the vehicle?

In a game I would shoot across the rhino and hit the unit behind it. I would expect the same done to me. I see the same on other game tables. But we are not playing to the letter of the law.

cromwest wrote:I love winning but I love still not knowing the outcome of the game on turn four. I'm pretty ambivalent towards crushing wins or defeats since its usually poor/hot dice or my opponent didn't bring enough anti-tank. The best games are games where both sides are all beat up and some sly maneuvering in the last turn or two makes a slight victory for one side I have a great time even if a loose games like that. The only thing I hate is when some one gives up when I think they still have a decent shot at beating me. I would rather have what looks like a victory for me turn into a defeat over someone who quits on turn three any day of the week.

Amen, brother, Amen.

I play cos the models are cool and I like the tactical exercise. I don't tend to win that often, but that's irrelevant, provided I do a degree of damage.

I would have to say that I don't really play to win, and make some pretty silly builds that I know could be streamlined better (not every Eldar army needs 3 serpents full of dragons). It is fun to try to win using whatever figs I like and want to use, even though some of the units may be sub-par. I don't expect to win, but I do win more than I lose because the dice gods favor the foolish and because some opponents just have no game no matter how 'broken' or 'cheese' or whatever you want to call i. Broken new codex and stuff just makes for more of a challenge, where a crappy player may still stand a chance, but in general, I like the competition. It's FUN to win. It's even more fun to win against all odds. It's also fun to lose, when you lose with awesomeness style and have a good laugh about it. So yeah, it's fun to beat ass and know you earned it, and it's also fun to get your ass handed to you and know you tried your hardest with a silly army build or maybe bad dice gods or maybe just codex creep whatever, just as long as you go down swinging.

I play to have fun and if I win that is nice but I prefer to tie then no one loses or wins.

I don't do tournaments bar the odd doubles league if a local gaming stores hosting it. If I win great but it isn't necessary to have fun. I play for the character and theme of the army. Some of the funniest and most memorable battles I've had is where I've ended up losing.

i play to win at all costs even to the point where i've killed my opponent to win by default

i like playing tough opponents who really want to win
but in a grown up way not a cry baby school boy kind of way

I like to deliberately lose when accosted by a kid at a store game. Conveniently 'forget' to move out of assault range, or take bad shots at cover-save units instead of the one they left in the open and so on. I find it fun to encourage them. The challenge in the game then is to not look like you are deliberately dumbing it down. You have to pull off an act like you are getting your ass handed to you when really you are handing them your ass. The kid goes home feeling awesome about himself with mommy and/or daddy and a new box of figs and I go home smiling.

Guitardian, You are the Man !!
You must let them win several games to get mom/dad to buy a $100 box set or Buy the rules and codex books.
I do the same but I am really trying to win.

resinmann wrote:Do players play by the RAW "letter of the law" ? Do we screw ourself to use the exact ruling.

This came up in"you make the call: flamer templates.[ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/316220.page ] The link? second posting byScott-S6. The illistration of models and templates

The rules say we must cover as much of the target model as possiable.
The set up is a model with a flamer shooting at the Side Rhino (main target) and hitting the troops behind it.

Playing Hard Core, RAW: do we turn the flamer template to Cover Most of the Rhino (from side to back corner) and Not hit any of the troops behind it.

I would say that's not only RAW but RAI as well - the intent of the template rules is that you shoot the unit which is your target, you don't shoot that unit just so that you can hit another unit which is not a valid target.

Not only is that breaking the letter of the rules but the spirit of the rules as well.

As SaintHazard pointed out in that thread it is possible to hit the squad whilst targetting the Rhino if you pivot away from the rhino so that the max coverage angle is the angle that hits the squad. That would be following the letter of the rules but, in my opinion, not the spirit of either the template rules or the walker rules.

Do we screw ourself to use the exact ruling.

I would hope so. What's the alternative, ignore the detail of the rules in order to gain an advantage?

I play for fun. I would really like to win, but I consider it a good game if I still have any toys on the table by the end of turn four. Since I started playing again a few months ago, I have played six times, and won once by tabling my opponent. I have been tabled by the end of turn four twice. I have had three games that could have gone either way, but that I lost on Victory Conditions. The game that I won was the least fun, because it was like a duck shoot. I woul rather have a cose fought, thrilling game that I lose, than a game where I table my opponent on turn three because he panicked and I didn't. Talk about tantrums...

I play to have fun winning, but I'm not a min-maxing WAAC moron either.