Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am posting this in hopes that I can get some feedback from the other members on whether or not I shoudl ask Santa for the Baneblade Super-heavy tank model.

I currently have a pretty good sized Word Bearers army (@ 1800 pts) and I have been looking at adding some armor to the army. I want to add a Predator to the army. ( I plan on using a lot of magnets and making it completely convertible. Predator --> Rhino --> Razorback)

ANYWAY... I must say that my first choice would be to add a Chaos Warhound from Forgeworld, but since it is a little out of my price range (Waiting for GW to make a plastic one!!!), I have been toying with the idea of adding a Bandblade.

The question is this.... do any of you field a Baneblade and in what size armies?? I mostly play on a 4x6 table (Realm of Battle) and the armies are usually around 1500-1800 pts. Would the Baneblade be a waste? I have never played Apocolypse and I doubt I will. My opponent is usually my son. He wants a Black Legion army. ... he's also 6 y/o

Please let me know your thoughts on adding a Super-Heavy tank to an army.

Thank you...

Baneblade is the best overall Super-Heavy as it does not suffer from "One Big Gun" syndrome. Every other... well... not the Hellhammer I guess... Super-Heavy has one giant gun, and a few piddly smaller guns. Only the Baneblade/Hellhammer backs up its main gun with a Demolisher Cannon.

Once the big gun on a Shadowsword or Stormblade is gone, it's naught but an overpriced giant target with a few Lascannons and Heavy Bolters. If a Baneblade/Hellhammer loses its main gun, still got a S10 Pie-Plate to keep fighting with.

Add it. Baneblades are cool. I have 3.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Add it. Baneblades are cool. I have 3.

Only 97 to go before you lose them all........

I have no room for more Super heavies. 10 is enough.

A super-heavy tank is a great centrepiece for larger scale battles. Plus it sets you up well if you play apocalypse scale games in years to come.

Thanks for the replies. I hope on converting fof Chaos (Word Bearers). I was thinking of making a conversion similar to the Fortress of Arrogance. Making an alter on the top as a stage for spreading the word.

I still have to think about it. But so far the feel is "Yes" get one. Thanks again..

this question is actually hard to answer.

Should you take a baneblade in your regular 2000 point games? No, that's illegal.

Should you take some sort of a variant of the baneblade for when you play apocalypse games? Why not?

Should you take the baneblade specifically compared to other superheavy tank options based on the same chassis? No, the vanilla baneblade is the worst of the lot.

Are super heavy vehicles awesome and a half? Yes.

Are they the most effective use of points? No.

Ailaros wrote:this question is actually hard to answer.

Should you take a baneblade in your regular 2000 point games? No, that's illegal.

That's news to me. How many points do you need? I don't remember seeing the guidelines. Please remember that I have never played Apocolypse.

Ailaros wrote: Should you take some sort of a variant of the baneblade for when you play apocalypse games? Why not?

OK.. makes sense.

Ailaros wrote: Should you take the baneblade specifically compared to other superheavy tank options based on the same chassis? No, the vanilla baneblade is the worst of the lot.

What would you suggest ... and why??

Ailaros wrote:Are super heavy vehicles awesome and a half? Yes.

Have to agree with that one.

Ailaros wrote:Are they the most effective use of points? No.

I suspected that one. Anything that big / awesome is probably a waste of points.

Thank you for your response. This is what I was hopnig I would get. I want to have a good grasp of the situation before sending in my Christmas wish list.

Ailaros wrote:Should you take a baneblade in your regular 2000 point games? No, that's illegal.

I thought that it was perfectly legal to bring a baneblade into a small game, but was generally considered a WAAC, cheap, move.

Slarg232 wrote:I thought that it was perfectly legal to bring a baneblade into a small game, but was generally considered a WAAC, cheap, move.

Tell me which page on what codex you get the stats and point cost for the baneblade on, and where it fits into your org chart. It's only got stats on an Apocalypse datasheet, so it's only legal for apoc games. Even if you allow the datasheet to be used in the wrong system, it doesn't have any rules for what force org slot it uses, so you can't buy it if you're limited by a force org chart, like you are in regular 40k games.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:I thought that it was perfectly legal to bring a baneblade into a small game, but was generally considered a WAAC, cheap, move.

Tell me which page on what codex you get the stats and point cost for the baneblade on, and where it fits into your org chart. It's only got stats on an Apocalypse datasheet, so it's only legal for apoc games. Even if you allow the datasheet to be used in the wrong system, it doesn't have any rules for what force org slot it uses, so you can't buy it if you're limited by a force org chart, like you are in regular 40k games.

Yes, but in the appoc rulebooks (or at least the one I was reading) it said something along the lines of "You are allowed to use these units in your normal games as long as your opponent consents."

Unless I am wrong, the stats were also in the Imperial Armor books... which unless I am mistaken (which I might be).. can be used in a normal game.

The problem I am debating is simply one of size... as in points. To field a super-heavy tank in a regular game seems a little like overkill. It is not unlike a Titan being used to squash a minor rebellion.

I would love to include a WARHOUND but again.. the financial cost is something that I cannot justify.. and let's not even think of a REAVER...

Slarg232 wrote:Yes, but in the appoc rulebooks (or at least the one I was reading) it said something along the lines of "You are allowed to use these units in your normal games as long as your opponent consents."

You can give all of your models 10 in every stat and a 1+ invulnerable save if your opponent agrees, that doesn't mean that it's 'perfectly legal' to do so in the usual sense that phrase is used here. If something is explicitly said to require opponent consent, it's not part of the standard rules, and a WAAC player trying to make up his own rules or bring non-40k units like a baneblade to a game is not going to Win, he's just going to get told 'no'. And note that you need house rules beyond just accepting the Apoc datasheet to take one, as the apoc sheet does not place the Baneblade into a force org slot - you have to house rule how to fit it into your force org chart, or house rule that you're not using one.

House rules anything goes, but 'perfectly legal' isn't normally used to mean 'if you make up rules, it's legal under those rules', it's meant to mean 'it's legal under the standard rules of the game and doesn't need any special opponent approval'.

Lord Bearer wrote:

Ailaros wrote:this question is actually hard to answer.

Should you take a baneblade in your regular 2000 point games? No, that's illegal.

That's news to me. How many points do you need? I don't remember seeing the guidelines. Please remember that I have never played Apocolypse.

Apoc minimum is 3K points.

I thought that it would have fit in the Heavy slot.. or maybe it would occupy two (2) of the normal Heavy spots. This is why I came to the board.. I do not know about this and I do not want to buy something only to find that it never gets game time.

Currently, I do not have the points worth of models to play Apoc.. Also, like I said.. family takes a lot of my time so playing a huge game is a little out of the schedule. I can field about 2000 pts with Necrons and Chaos (if I stretch) but I barely have 1800 pts with Space Marines. and maybe 1400 with Orks.

My son wants a box-set of Chaos Marines for Christmas but it has yet to be seen if Santa brings it or if Mrs. Claus says no.

You can bring a Super Heavy Vehicle as a second detachment in any game 2000 points and above. This has nothing to do with Apoc and is a general 40K rule straight out of the Imperial Armour books (and they don't require opponent permission).

Adding a Baneblade to a force that is already 1800 points would be legal, as it would take it over 2000 points.

H.B.M.C. wrote:You can bring a Super Heavy Vehicle as a second detachment in any game 2000 points and above. This has nothing to do with Apoc and is a general 40K rule straight out of the Imperial Armour books (and they don't require opponent permission)

You would really want to mention it though, as this can actually be a point of contention. Many folks read page viii of the main rules as being rules--which would restrict normal 40k armies to units in the codex.

Lord Bearer wrote: I thought that it would have fit in the Heavy slot.. or maybe it would occupy two (2) of the normal Heavy spots. This is why I came to the board.. I do not know about this and I do not want to buy something only to find that it never gets game time.

Currently, I do not have the points worth of models to play Apoc.. Also, like I said.. family takes a lot of my time so playing a huge game is a little out of the schedule. I can field about 2000 pts with Necrons and Chaos (if I stretch) but I barely have 1800 pts with Space Marines. and maybe 1400 with Orks.

My son wants a box-set of Chaos Marines for Christmas but it has yet to be seen if Santa brings it or if Mrs. Claus says no.

theres always the Super heavy spearhead formation.

kirsanth wrote:You would really want to mention it though, as this can actually be a point of contention. Many folks read page viii of the main rules as being rules--which would restrict normal 40k armies to units in the codex.

Oh sure, I wouldn't surprise anyone with a Super-Heavy, that'd be a dick move, but I'd get annoyed at someone saying "No you can't" because 8+ years ago Super Heavies did require persmission and thus they continue to have the perception that they do.

H.B.M.C. wrote:You can bring a Super Heavy Vehicle as a second detachment in any game 2000 points and above. This has nothing to do with Apoc and is a general 40K rule straight out of the Imperial Armour books (and they don't require opponent permission).

The Imperial Armour books say explicitly that using any rules from them requires opponet's permission, or at least the first two did (I don't have the latter ones, and it could have changed since first printing). The main rulebook for 40k also restricts armies to bringing units from their Codex, and "Imperial Armour" is not a Codex, so it's still not legal to bring them unless you house rule to override the main rulebook. The main rules also do not allow a second force org chart.

The OP is not going to win any friends or get into many tournaments by trying to drag super-heavy vehicles into a 2000 point game. IA are a collection of optional rules produced by a third party, they're not the regular 40k rules. If you find people who want to play with them, cool, but if you're trying to put together an army to show up in a store for pickup games, a league, or a tournament, adding a baneblade is really not a good plan.

VikingScott wrote:

Lord Bearer wrote:

Ailaros wrote:this question is actually hard to answer.

Should you take a baneblade in your regular 2000 point games? No, that's illegal.

That's news to me. How many points do you need? I don't remember seeing the guidelines. Please remember that I have never played Apocolypse.

Apoc minimum is 3K points.

Isn't 3K per person or everyone combined?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh sure, I wouldn't surprise anyone with a Super-Heavy, that'd be a dick move, but I'd get annoyed at someone saying "No you can't" because 8+ years ago Super Heavies did require persmission and thus they continue to have the perception that they do.

I did not think you meant it like that either.

I just meant that many folks do not see IA rules as part of normal 40k; I find it worth going well out of my way to discuss it before-hand. Super-heavy or not.

It's the bottom point level for each side in the battle. So it doesn't matter how many people participate, only that each side has at least 3K points.

The old IA books 1 & 2 are out of date. IIRC back then you were allowed one War Machine or Monstrosity per detachment but now I believe you must be playing Apoc to have a Baneblade.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The old IA books 1 & 2 are out of date.

Correct. Replaced with the Imperial Armour Volume series.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:IIRC back then you were allowed one War Machine or Monstrosity per detachment but now I believe you must be playing Apoc to have a Baneblade.

Not true.

Then what is?

I'm behind on this too. If the old IA 1 war machine per detatchment is gone now, how do you use a Baneblade without playing Apoc?
I thought I needed to have one and started my own scratchbuild. But when I decided to never buy Apoc I thought what's the use of having a Baneblade? (except for looking cool) and the project is just taking up space on my workbench now.

Brotherjulian wrote: I'm behind on this too. If the old IA 1 war machine per detatchment is gone now, how do you use a Baneblade without playing Apoc?
I thought I needed to have one and started my own scratchbuild. But when I decided to never buy Apoc I thought what's the use of having a Baneblade? (except for looking cool) and the project is just taking up space on my workbench now.

Hey, we're in the same boat! Got a primed Baneblade ready to paint but its like "meh, can only use it in Apoc."

In the battle missions book theres is a new gametype called "Linebreaker" where 1 person may use 3 baneblades against a 1500 point army, the whole idea is for the baneblades to get to the oppentents deploymet zone to destroy an offmap shirld generator.

the designers even left a note saying it was just an excuse to use 3 baneblades in a "normal" 40k game.

But I think if you want to use IA stuff you can but it is seen as good form to ask your oppenent before the game starts IMO. I would have no problem vs a banebalde just cause they are well...awesome, but I would prefer to have them ask me even though there is no rule saying that anymore right?

Guys, guys, guys! Let's all calm down, listen, and I'll explain the history, 'cause we're getting some crossed wires and misunderstanding one another.

There were two original Imperial Armour Books:

Imperial Armour 1
Imperial Armour 2

Later they were added to with:

Imperial Armour Update


Those books are out of date. Forge World then started a new series, which started with Imperial Armour Volume 1. In these books it is explicitly stated that they do not require opponent's permission (or, to be completely fair and accurate, require no more permission than any other aspect of the game), and the only requirement is a game of 2000+ points.

That's all.