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There's a bit in 'Dark Apostle' about the Word Bearers using over thirty dreadnoughts:
Spoiler:
It's about the last 100 pages or so, after the titan falls, and while protecting the 'genghamanet' or whatever it's called . They mention unleashing 30 dreadnoughts upon the elysians.
Is this correct, or are daemonic engines considered "Dreadnoughts"?
If it is, HOLY COW! The 'host' is only about 2000 space marines strong, and 30 dreadnoughts is an incredible amount to have (at the same time, no less).
Samus_aran115 wrote:There's a bit in 'Dark Apostle' about the Word Bearers using over thirty dreadnoughts:
Spoiler:
It's about the last 100 pages or so, after the titan falls, and while protecting the 'genghamanet' or whatever it's called . They mention unleashing 30 dreadnoughts upon the elysians.
Is this correct, or are daemonic engines considered "Dreadnoughts"?
If it is, HOLY COW! The 'host' is only about 2000 space marines strong, and 30 dreadnoughts is an incredible amount to have (at the same time, no less).
And likely a very rare occurrence. Like all armoured formations in Imperial guard. But yeah I agree that's mad. Kind of fitting for the word bearers. Must have done a lot of theft/scavenging to get all that together.
Samus_aran115 wrote:If it is, HOLY COW! The 'host' is only about 2000 space marines strong, and 30 dreadnoughts is an incredible amount to have (at the same time, no less).
Y'know, the Blood Angels boast a total of 31 Dreadnoughts, and the Ultramarines have 26. For a traitor legion force about twice the size of a chapter to have 30 Dreadnoughts at its disposal wouldn't be that far-fetched. There are probably a fair number of technically adept loyalist chapters, such as the Iron Hands, with many more.
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
That's still less than that one battle on Armageddon(which was something like 17 Imperial Dreads vs ~200+ Orkish Kans and Dreads).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/18 00:25:03
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Huh, really? I had no idea the loyalists had so many...But both the UM and BA are truly ancient chapters, deserving of so many dreadnoughts....But by that logic...The Bearers should have even more
The smurflingmarines and metalnipplemarines are just as old as the mydaddoesntlikemychoiceofreligionmarines.
Lexx wrote:And likely a very rare occurrence. Like all armoured formations in Imperial guard.
100% armour deployments of ANY kind is rare. Guard is intelligent enough to support their armour with infantry. But certainly, armoured companies themselves are the opposite of rare.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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Whilst unleashing that number of dreadnoughts is, obviously, unusual, the original legions had access to much greater numbers of dreadnoughts than the "modern" era Chapters do, as the technology hadn't been lost by that point. I gather there has been some, very vague, discussion about addressing this issue in the HH series, or at the least showcasing more Dreadnought characters. I suppose whilst interesting they also present some limitation upon what one can have a character do in a tale so this is, possibly, at least one of the reasons we haven't seen more of them in that era.
Given the organisation and infighting amongst the Word Bearers it seems quite apt to me that they might well use a lot more Dreads than some other marines...
..relating to that I guess it would perhaps be fair to assume that perhaps the Word Bearers escaped the HH with perhaps more equipment and infrastructure than some of the other Legions..?
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We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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reds8n wrote:Whilst unleashing that number of dreadnoughts is, obviously, unusual, the original legions had access to much greater numbers of dreadnoughts than the "modern" era Chapters do, as the technology hadn't been lost by that point. I gather there has been some, very vague, discussion about addressing this issue in the HH series, or at the least showcasing more Dreadnought characters. I suppose whilst interesting they also present some limitation upon what one can have a character do in a tale so this is, possibly, at least one of the reasons we haven't seen more of them in that era.
Given the organisation and infighting amongst the Word Bearers it seems quite apt to me that they might well use a lot more Dreads than some other marines...
..relating to that I guess it would perhaps be fair to assume that perhaps the Word Bearers escaped the HH with perhaps more equipment and infrastructure than some of the other Legions..?
Yes, I assume they kept an extreme amount of stuff with them. There's other parts that describe an entourage of about 200 terminators towards the end..Which is insane..Don't most space marine chapters have less than a hundred? It's also beyond my comprehension why they left all of that stuff on tanakreg after the battle. Don't you have any sense?
Spoiler:
Something like all of those thirty dreadnoughts, over a thousand marines, a couple dozen, if not more sets of terminator armor, countless defilers, aircraft, and other things
It's also very surprising they do this every single book! Phenomenal casualties mean nothing when you have entire planets to restock from, I guess.
I think they might actually have the ability to make more sets of Terminators armour and Dreadnoughts, but given the rarity of materials, I can imagine it taking far too long to replenish such horrendous casualties....
It's also worth a mention that this was just one of the word bearer's 'hosts'. There's supposed to be several of them, with probably less members than this one. So it's basically two hosts.
Spoiler:
They talk about getting refugees from an almost destroyed host, which made them much larger. I can guess they got all of their dreadnoughts and stuff too.
Remember pre-heresy legions were enormous.. Modern chapters are dinky by comparison so the Word Bearers Legion should have many more dreads than the Blood Angels or the Smurfs.
For the Emperor! Kill Maim Burn!... I mean purge the unclean!
Brotherjulian wrote: Remember pre-heresy legions were enormous.. Modern chapters are dinky by comparison so the Word Bearers Legion should have many more dreads than the Blood Angels or the Smurfs.
Yup!
Many were 10 to 100 times bigger than a Chapter.. Some, even bigger!
Brotherjulian wrote: Remember pre-heresy legions were enormous.. Modern chapters are dinky by comparison so the Word Bearers Legion should have many more dreads than the Blood Angels or the Smurfs.
Yup!
Many were 10 to 100 times bigger than a Chapter.. Some, even bigger!
100 times bigger? That would be about 100,000 marines!
I also think it's interesting that they managed to keep 30 dreadnoughts happy and in one piece for the last 10,000 years
Samus_aran115 wrote:
I also think it's interesting that they managed to keep 30 dreadnoughts happy and in one piece for the last 10,000 years
They keep them chained and bound to a wall when not being used.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Samus_aran115 wrote:
I also think it's interesting that they managed to keep 30 dreadnoughts happy and in one piece for the last 10,000 years
They keep them chained and bound to a wall when not being used.
No, I mean not destroying them in battle 10k years is a long time! Look at what spear heads look like, 10k years later! Imagine a dreadnought being that old.....:O
100 times bigger? That would be about 100,000 marines!
Yes. The Ultramarines, prior to Calth were at or around the 250,000 ( even if it seems not all of those were from Calgar's genes perhaps...) at one point apparently. Even post Hersy and Scourging, when they implemented the Codex Astartes the Ultramarines were at least 23,000 strong.
Remember that time works different in the warp and also therefore in the EoT and the Maelstrom as well, so it's not been 10K years for most of the rebels.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Plus, the Word Bearers are one of the more organised Traitor Legions. Unlike, say, the World Eaters, who are just a collection of small warbands. Seems more believable that the Word Bearers would be able to organise that much of their old equipment together at one time.
Melissia wrote:The smurflingmarines and metalnipplemarines are just as old as the mydaddoesntlikemychoiceofreligionmarines.
Lexx wrote:And likely a very rare occurrence. Like all armoured formations in Imperial guard.
100% armour deployments of ANY kind is rare. Guard is intelligent enough to support their armour with infantry. But certainly, armoured companies themselves are the opposite of rare.
I know that combined arms groups with detachments from armoured companies are common. I was meaning 100% tank formations. I think during the wars on Tallarn is one of the biggest examples of this. But yes very rare.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/19 12:42:19
100 times bigger? That would be about 100,000 marines!
Yes. The Ultramarines, prior to Calth were at or around the 250,000 ( even if it seems not all of those were from Calgar's genes perhaps...) at one point apparently. Even post Hersy and Scourging, when they implemented the Codex Astartes the Ultramarines were at least 23,000 strong.
Remember that time works different in the warp and also therefore in the EoT and the Maelstrom as well, so it's not been 10K years for most of the rebels.
That's insane! Ultramar is a really big place though, so it's not that surprising.
Ah, that makes sense. Yeah, there's a part where it talks about training for a couple months, only to find that it's been a couple centuries. It's probably why some of their dreadnoughts are still 'sane' in a way.
Spoiler:
By the way...Was the warmonger really erebus in a dreadnought, or did I read that wrong?
Has anyone else noticed that the primary movers and shakers in the Heresy were all named for various devils? Ahriman? Abbadon, Erebus? Some people complain about the Space Wolves being Wolfy McWolfersonwolf, but the the Chaos Space Marines really have the "Dr. Evil" names sewn up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/19 21:27:15
Interestingly "Christopher" means "Cross-bearer", so that makes the Cross-Bearer the Despoiler much more interesting than Abbadon the Despoiler, because you'd kind of expect "Abbadon" to grow up to be a bit of a bastard. The conflict of a noble name and an ignoble epiphet makes the second name the best name for a villain. There's inherent conflict, which is interesting, instead of alignment between name and function which is merely informative.
Incidentally that's why Horus Lupercal and the Luna Wolves are better than Horus the Arch-Heretic and the Sons of Horus: Horus was the inheritor of Osiris in the myths of ancient Aegypt, who overthrew his uncle Set (Strength) to avenge his father, and took Set's place at the bow of Ra's barque to fight the chaos-serpent Apophis during Ra's nightly journey through the underworld. It's the name of a great and divine warrior defeating an usurper. Except it's the name of the greatest heretic. There's tension there, there's questions about why such a man-god would attempt to over-throw his father.
. They mention unleashing 30 dreadnoughts upon the elysians.
10k years is a long time! Look at what spear heads look like, 10k years later! Imagine a dreadnought being that old.....:O
