Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It saddens me when I see experienced players use newer players’ lack of rules knowledge to their advantage. Here are some examples of how more experienced players have pulled the wool over my eyes. I hope that by sharing these scenarios others may learn to not fall into the same traps.




“That Defiler is a vehicle therefore my marines are not stuck in combat with it. Oh, and now it’s immobilized so it can’t do anything.”
“I can throw my grenades at you on top of my normal shooting. They are the same strength as a bolter but I use small blast templates instead.”
These were in my early days of gaming. I was unsure of the rules and therefore thought what my opponent said would always adhere to the rulebook. Do not let this happen to you.


“That vehicle has no weapons, is immobilized and cannot do anything. It is therefore a KP/ full VP.”
I think this was more so confusion with a house-rule rather than a blatant cheat. Still, I was shocked when I heard it. Easily rectified.


“Shooting attacks are resolved simultaneously. You cannot lash a unit into a bunch and then shoot at them.”
“It doesn’t matter that my models are in btb with another unit I can still attack whomever I want within 2 inches.”
This was in the early days of 5th. All I needed to do was check the rulebook but again, I thought my opponent was better informed than I. If you aren’t sure of a rule or if it seems even a bit fishy look into it before continuing. Don’t just confer with the people around you. They could be biased towards your opponent or equally misinformed.

Make sure to memorize the rules that even though you think are screwy are actually correct. See: wound allocation, dedicated transports in dow, instagibbing passengers on a 5 when completely surrounded, summoned daemons assaulting after ds, etc..


“My WBB always works without a res orb. Even after sweeping advances, power weapons and AP 1-2. Oh, and my Monolith can fire all of its weapons even though the big blast is an ordinance shot.”
“My terminators have +1 W, T, A, have wings, axes of khorne and ride on unicrons” ala 3.5 dex
“I can Waagh every turn. No matter what.....”
Make sure to read (or at least glimpse at) new books as they come out. In other words, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Look for FAQ’s as they come out. Also, look over your opponent’s list with great vengeance and furious anger. Look for accurate point totals, and any additions to the list.


“My Leman Russ’ turrets have over the 100 degree arc of sight.”
This was very easy to correct. Don’t let simple rules ruin the outcomes of your games.




Read the rules and memorize them or at least memorize where they’re located. I have frequently played people who have had skewed (via ignorance or on purpose) views of the rules. Again, the key to making sure you and your opponent are playing correctly is to READ THE RULES. Make sure you know the rulebook down pat if you are a newer player. Having someone twist your arm into believing lies ruins 40k and your gaming community.

If anyone else has had experiences similar to my own please feel free to share.


Edited pour grammaire

Most of the rules at our local club come out of ignorance or inexperience with new rules (and old) rather than intentional attempts at misleading the less-experienced players. You know;

"My Leman Russ can always fire all it's weapons at combat speed due to Lumbering Behemoth"
"Well, the rulebook says that is the Turret Weapon in addition to what you can normally fire, which would be one weapon and all defensive weapons"
"Oh...so no 3 Heavy Bolters?"
Doesn't look it."
"Bugger."

The only guy who really gives any trouble is a young one that's pretty new and pretty cocky. Bad sportsman, but he plays by the rule so long as it's against older players. When he's up against less experienced players he up radical rules, not just the examples you give but real changes to army state lines.

"My Chapter Master is Str 5 and T 5, oh and he can use the Orbital Bombardment every turn."
"I ignore cover. With everything."

I got bullied massively for using a burna-wagon once when out of town, then again the idiot was having to take TPSTs.

Open-topped means you've got to line up all the models on top to see how many can shoot... See you only get 5 burnas and they can't stack their templates!
Always be aware of differences in rules between editions, especially if you're actively exploiting one. Always have a rulebook handy, if it belongs to the opponent and they refuse to look it up then walk away because they clearly aren't interested in being anything but a sore winner, and will not capitulate in argument.

Also if you do have a complaint about someone's behaviour, eg while filling out the sportsmanship rating they have seven big mates leaning over you and placing a hand on your shoulder, tell the TO.

And then make sure the TO actually bothers about it, I played one guy who had a whole string of complaints from players and even people playing on tables nearby, including the TO's brother and son.

The guy was never cautioned about his rude aggressive behaviour or having his mates intimidate his opponents and apparently had one of the highest sportsmanship scores in the event!

Eyclonus wrote:I got bullied massively for using a burna-wagon once when out of town, then again the idiot was having to take TPSTs.

Open-topped means you've got to line up all the models on top to see how many can shoot... See you only get 5 burnas and they can't stack their templates!
Always be aware of differences in rules between editions, especially if you're actively exploiting one. Always have a rulebook handy, if it belongs to the opponent and they refuse to look it up then walk away because they clearly aren't interested in being anything but a sore winner, and will not capitulate in argument.

Also if you do have a complaint about someone's behaviour, eg while filling out the sportsmanship rating they have seven big mates leaning over you and placing a hand on your shoulder, tell the TO.

And then make sure the TO actually bothers about it, I played one guy who had a whole string of complaints from players and even people playing on tables nearby, including the TO's brother and son.

The guy was never cautioned about his rude aggressive behaviour or having his mates intimidate his opponents and apparently had one of the highest sportsmanship scores in the event!

Sorry to hear you had such a negative experience like that. But it does amaze me that some people have the gall to try lies like mentioned in this thread. Always good to have a rulebook handy I guess for clarifying these issues. And learn your armies specific rules well so you don't get taken in by stunts like these.

This is a great thread, there should be a sticky for common rule bending to help new guys not get screwed their first few times out.

At the Gw store I play at, even the people who work there are confused by the artillery rules.

So my deffcoptas are shooting your thunderfire cannon and they get 2 hits.
So you roll to wound on the tech marine right?
No, you roll to see if it hits the cannon or the techmarine.
The cannon is just a token, it is not really a model on the board

Even after reading the rule out loud to the manager of the store, the manager of the store agreed with my opponent with the cannon mumbling something about "the glass cannon rule only applies to the eldar"......... I gave up, and instead of killing the cannon first turn, it proceeded to wreak havoc for the rest of the game.

What do you do when the "authority" (manger, employee, or TO) gets something wrong?

Eyclonus wrote:And then make sure the TO actually bothers about it, I played one guy who had a whole string of complaints from players and even people playing on tables nearby, including the TO's brother and son.

The guy was never cautioned about his rude aggressive behaviour or having his mates intimidate his opponents and apparently had one of the highest sportsmanship scores in the event!

I wish I could say this would abnormal behavior for TOs.

I recall someone who said "Sisters of Battle are girls, and so they can't have BS4, and they're also all S2/T2". He then went to claim that Codex: Witch Hunters was "house rules"... and that the stats in the back of the Rulebook were "typos corrected in a FAQ"... and that my printed out FAQ was out of date...

... mind you, this is probably more to do with general sexism and arse-hattery rather than abusing newbies, but still, it goes to show the depth of stupidity some people will go to in the hobby.

svendrex wrote:At the Gw store I play at, even the people who work there are confused by the artillery rules.

So my deffcoptas are shooting your thunderfire cannon and they get 2 hits.
So you roll to wound on the tech marine right?
No, you roll to see if it hits the cannon or the techmarine.
The cannon is just a token, it is not really a model on the board

Even after reading the rule out loud to the manager of the store, the manager of the store agreed with my opponent with the cannon mumbling something about "the glass cannon rule only applies to the eldar"......... I gave up, and instead of killing the cannon first turn, it proceeded to wreak havoc for the rest of the game.

What do you do when the "authority" (manger, employee, or TO) gets something wrong?

You cant really do much as its the game store owner/GW manager that has final say.

Rules issues come up often. You would think that playing for a while would get rid of them but older players do have a tendency to do two things which annoy me.

1. Apply common real life sense to the rules like your dread is immobilized so I can hit it in the back armor now

2. Try to use rules from previous editions or codex's that don't exist anymore. Your marines shot out of the rhino so its open topped now

As always if you calmly and cheerfully say "hey wait a minute i thought that X rule played like this, let me look in the book for a second" will go a much longer way to clearing up rules disagreements than anything else. Because if you get the store workers or the TO involved people feel like your trying to gang up on them and and can become belligerent. And if you just say no your wrong your going to start a pointless argument. No reasonable person will argue with rules printed in a book I will usually say something like, "hey there it is (put my finger on the rule) look bottom paragraph read that."

If they wont let you look it up or still argue you are no longer playing a friendly game and have no reason to continue. If you didn't bring a rule book or your codex with you then shame on you and accept whatever ridiculousness comes your way. If it is a tournament setting you unfortunately will have to get a TO if he still argues and if hes buddies with the TO you lost so just accept it and don't play tournaments at that place anymore.

If the problem is measurement and they are moving farther than you should or someone keeps spitting out 6's you have a real cheater on your hands and you need to warn once and then stop playing if it continues. Cheaters keep on cheating because no one ever calls them on it and they think its not a big deal because that's the impression most people give them.

Actually 2) above was incorrect - it was only open topped if you were less than a 3+ save

Additionally: "“Shooting attacks are resolved simultaneously. You cannot lash a unit into a bunch and then shoot at them.”"

Is true IF you are talking about sorceror+unit firing at a squad - you cannot lash them into a blob then flamer them with the same unit, as it is simultaneous. Just a clarification worth making!

As above: best possible advice is: get them to show you the rule. If they claim something shady, getr them to show you the rule, and if they wont (you can see my codex, its full of super secret stuff!!) then they dont have thatrule any longer.

The whole point was that its incorrect lol.

Ha! I glanced! *rolls 6* HAHA! You have no Vehicle!
Err... That's 4th edition.
Yes. We are in 4th Edition.
*I take out my AOBR rulebook* You immobilize it.
Nice house rules, noob!

Actual conversation. It deeply saddens me that people will try to convince a younger player of things. I own and have read all the Dex's, and I love it when people try to say their defilers are WS 5.

Always keep your rulebooks with you. I once accidentally cheated a fellow player(although he was more experienced, and I was the noob) at my local GW out of a few close combat attacks, because I didn't know his codex. Obviously once I discovered my mistake(a few weeks later, when I had a chance to read the codex for the army he played) I immediately apologized. I still feel bad about it, and try to read up on rules for other armies, so that this doesn't happen again.

Thaanos wrote:Always keep your rulebooks with you. I once accidentally cheated a fellow player(although he was more experienced, and I was the noob) at my local GW out of a few close combat attacks, because I didn't know his codex. Obviously once I discovered my mistake(a few weeks later, when I had a chance to read the codex for the army he played) I immediately apologized. I still feel bad about it, and try to read up on rules for other armies, so that this doesn't happen again.

Now thats the kind of sportsmanship I like to see .

Thaanos wrote:Always keep your rulebooks with you. I once accidentally cheated a fellow player(although he was more experienced, and I was the noob) at my local GW out of a few close combat attacks, because I didn't know his codex. Obviously once I discovered my mistake(a few weeks later, when I had a chance to read the codex for the army he played) I immediately apologized. I still feel bad about it, and try to read up on rules for other armies, so that this doesn't happen again.

You sir ARE AN ELEGANT GENTLEMEN!

Melissia wrote:

Eyclonus wrote:And then make sure the TO actually bothers about it, I played one guy who had a whole string of complaints from players and even people playing on tables nearby, including the TO's brother and son.

The guy was never cautioned about his rude aggressive behaviour or having his mates intimidate his opponents and apparently had one of the highest sportsmanship scores in the event!

I wish I could say this would abnormal behavior for TOs.

I recall someone who said "Sisters of Battle are girls, and so they can't have BS4, and they're also all S2/T2". He then went to claim that Codex: Witch Hunters was "house rules"... and that the stats in the back of the Rulebook were "typos corrected in a FAQ"... and that my printed out FAQ was out of date...

... mind you, this is probably more to do with general sexism and arse-hattery rather than abusing newbies, but still, it goes to show the depth of stupidity some people will go to in the hobby.

That's the point in which you say "Well, they also have the Sexy rule, where every male unit (which, as everyone knows, is almost every other army) count as WS 1, BS 1, -7 LD against them, because their beauty is outstanding." (this also counts against Slaanesh Daemons, they go both ways.)

I remember my early days of 40k and some of the shenanigans that were pulled on me - the ramifications of that crap still reverberates through my gaming experience now - my later questioning of some shady things done to me resulted in alienating an entire 40k community (the perpetrator is the local 40k hero).

Best advice to a newb: Take note of things that don't seem right to you, then research them in the rulebook. Use YMDC forums if you need.

Dashofpepper wrote:I remember my early days of 40k and some of the shenanigans that were pulled on me - the ramifications of that crap still reverberates through my gaming experience now - my later questioning of some shady things done to me resulted in alienating an entire 40k community (the perpetrator is the local 40k hero).

Best advice to a newb: Take note of things that don't seem right to you, then research them in the rulebook. Use YMDC forums if you need.

Or just ring me and ask.

Also, something that is confusing me:

“My Leman Russ’ turrets have over the 100 degree arc of sight.”
This was very easy to correct. Don’t let simple rules ruin the outcomes of your games.

A Turret has a 360 degree arc of sight...

“My Leman Russ’ turrets have over the 100 degree arc of sight.”
This was very easy to correct. Don’t let simple rules ruin the outcomes of your games.
A Turret has a 360 degree arc of sight...

I meant to say side sponsor

Vache Glace wrote:

“My Leman Russ’ turrets have over the 100 degree arc of sight.”
This was very easy to correct. Don’t let simple rules ruin the outcomes of your games.
A Turret has a 360 degree arc of sight...

I meant to say side sponsor

Well herpdederp! Bit of a difference there.

Yeah, a LR has only a 90-100 degree arc on those things, unless you hack at it, at which point I... nevermind.

Gwar! wrote:

Vache Glace wrote:

“My Leman Russ’ turrets have over the 100 degree arc of sight.”
This was very easy to correct. Don’t let simple rules ruin the outcomes of your games.
A Turret has a 360 degree arc of sight...

I meant to say side sponsor

Well herpdederp! Bit of a difference there.

Yeah, a LR has only a 90-100 degree arc on those things, unless you hack at it, at which point I... nevermind.

Now I want a Gwar rules clarification hotline...

Lexx wrote:Now I want a Gwar rules clarification hotline...

-Cough- -Points at Signature-

Sadly the RealNumber>Skypename service isn't available outside the US. :(

The best way to avoid getting cheated in a game is to learn the rules yourself, rather than deferring to someone else's judgement. Also, make sure you sort out any grey areas prior to play, so make sure that you both have a firm grasp of the rules.

Also, make sure you have a rulebook and codex with you at all time, and have your opponent bring THEIR codex.

If all else fails, you can then look it up.

If they refuse to bring even a photocopied version of their codex (in case they don't want to risk it being damaged for example), they're probably shady players.

Don't just have your opponent bring their Codex, make sure you're aware of its contents.

Having and reading all of the codexes is, of course, the ideal solution. However, that may be out of reach for new players who have limited resources...if the choice is between another unit for my army or a book for an army I will never field, I know which I would pick! Or, perhaps an inexperienced player can afford the other codexes, but doesn't have the time to read them; this is the predicament I find myself in. I therefore rely pretty heavily on my opponent's knowledge of their own army, and fortunately this has worked out well with my local group. For more hostile environments, I think advice along the lines of the OP's is pretty useful.

I purchase codices for armies that I play, but for armies that I don't play I look at through other means, such as looking through a friend's codex, or looking online in the case of the DH one (amongst other PDFs online).

Contrary to popular belief, Dreadnaughts do NOT get 2d6 armor pen.
This is just a common misconception.

You MUST roll for reserves as per the rules, if you forget and have moved on to a different phase you still roll for them & if they show up they don't get to shoot or assault depending n the current phase
I have had opponents try to "Forget" so they have a better chance next turn of having everything show up at once. the rules clearly state on page 95 ". . .you must roll for reserves as soon as possible. . ." and that you must bring them on the table as soon as they are available. To me this explicitly forces you to do them out of phase if you forget. Out of turn is a whole different monster & I don't want to begin to discuss that.

Deep striking units must be in btb & SPIRAL out from the center model
Many times when an opponent has tried to keep them in btb but make a line with them to avoid mishaps or get closer to assault. That is cheating.

Tau markerlights CAN be used to enhance other markerlights.
Useful trick when I have a unit of FW outside range of pulse rifles use their one light on a tank then all my pathfinders lights hit on 3+.

Edit:
@Melissia - I just read your story about the sexism and I must apologize for my gender and from the sound of the argument my age group. He sounds like a teenager, albeit a young one (I'm 19), and I can't stand when guys do that. This hobby doesn't have many female players & I believe attitudes like you faced are part of whats keeping them away. We have one girl that plays in my LGS and she was reluctant because before her it was all guys & its hard enough just being new, let alone being new and the first girl. Now shes a fairly good player and I have no problem saying I've been beaten by a girl. Some people just need to grow up.

Well, unless it's an ironclad dread with a chainfist.

Yes but that's not the dreadnought HAVING 2d6 that's the chainfist GIVING it 2d6. Dreads themselves only have 1d6 unless they have special wargear.