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I like every faction.
I can not say that of 40K...

Every week, I tell myself I'm starting a new faction. Have you had the same urge?
Thankfully, my wallet is still alive as i generally end the strong whim by returning to my Cryx and being content with what I have.

Last week, I was strongly wanting to start eMorghoul, this week is Hexeris.
Siege is really cool, which bled to wanting to start a eStryker themed to a eCaine army whim.
Then there is the really nice Strakov fig, then the eButcher tier lol list.
Gators are looking sexy, I love the Necromancer looking Mohsar of Circle and the Wolds.
Legion and the lovely Protector warbeast and Ryhas.
Errants of Menoth are jawdropping.

So much to love and not enough funds.

But, as said, I always come back to Cryx and feel content.
Though, I really wanted a caster that was more Assassin like, like Garrayth or eMorghoul<----- who in Cryx do you think is closest to an assassination sort of caster? (Stalker is the closest thing, but not exactly a caster).

Yea, I find all the factions in warmachine appealing, snd almost all in hordes. The only faction I have never been drawn to is trollbloods, I hate their aesthetics.
That is still 10/11 factions I like counting minions and mercs separate, I cannot say that about 40k where maybe 4 armies at most had any appeal.

I like the event based game termination conditions of wm/h, in fact the the only thing I actively dislike about 40K is how it ends after a number of turns. It's always felt like "... okay the games done, now we figure out who won and who lost..." in 40K, where as in wm/h it's "...player X ended the game by defeating player T via such an such action...".

Other then that there are plenty of things I just like more in wm/h then 40K but don't actually dislike them in 40K. Both are tactically and strategically rich but the greater flavour of chess in wm/h is something I particularly like. Also the lower model count, hit/dmg (instead of hit/wound/save), generally lower dice volume, and how turns are carried out are just some of the things.


I really miss the demonic assault rule for deployment of chaos daemons though.

WM has its own set of problems, but I like the system. Fast and furious, every WM loss I've had has been fun. Still like WHFB though, not too into 40k.

And for Cryx, assassination would be eDenny

I like the fact that no matter how dire, you can still have a chance to pull off a win. Also tactics can overcome a bad match up.

When I like to roll buckets of dice, I play 40K or Fantasy. When I want to place 50-200+ models on the table and play one game for 3-4 hours and get only 4-6 turns, I'll play 40K/Fantasy. When I want to sit down at a table and turn my brain off while playing a game, I'll play 40K/Fantasy. I know more than a few of those comments will draw some fire, and seem like I'm trolling, but it's how I feel. I like the fluff behind 40K, and some of the armies in Fantasy do appeal to me (I just started Skaven). I just feel like in those games, more dice = better. I can be the World's Worst General, but if I throw enough dice at it, it doesn't matter. The more dice you roll, the less extremes you will encounter, and you can start to depend on the Law of Averages. It just feels like no matter what I do in 40K/Fantasy, good tactical decisions or bad, if I throw enough dice at it, I can overcome.

I've sometimes felt clueless while playing a game of 40K. "I'm actually using the Space Wolves Codex to represent my army of Tyranids. This model represents...", "This guy here armed with a sword and bolt pistol? He actually has a Power Fist and Combi-Meltagun", "This block of 50 Orcs with shields and hand weapons are actually armed with spears..." WYSIWYG is a great rule that is never enforced. It might be different elsewhere, but I've played all over the US, and in more than a couple GT's, and I've NEVER seen the rule enforced, anywhere. If I have questions about a unit, it sometimes feel like I have to turn to page 72 in the main rule book, then check page 12 of the Codex, followed by page 25, and then check the online FAQ. Not all units are like that, but it's just really, really annoying to have to pause the game, and look all that crap up.

The 40K and Fantasy experience to me has been one of extremes. I've had fantastic games where I shook hands with my opponent, we laughed, we challenged each other, and when the dust settled and a winner was declared, we shook hands again and then went out and got a beer. On the other extreme, I've had opponents physically threaten me, refuse to shake my hand, argue about everything, and in general make the game not fun at all. Which baffles me, as we pay games to blow off steam, have fun, and entertain ourselves, right? So why act like a jerk? I don't get it.

Now I'll contrast all this with Warmachine.

When I only want to play with 20-30 models on the table, I'll play Warmachine. When I only have 1-2 hours to play, I'll play Warmachine, and probably be able to squeeze in two games. When I want to really, really think about what I am going to do during a game, I'll play Warmachine.

I have never felt defeated or lost during a game of Warmachine (well, except for when I first started playing back in 2002). Every game has felt "close" where if I had just moved one model this way, or if my opponent had done this instead, the whole game would have turned. My dice in Warmachine are stupid powerful and very fickle. Every game I've played has come down to a couple key dice rolls where if I rolled a 10+ on 2d6, I'd win the game. If I didn't, I'd be in a very vulnerable position. Warmachine rewards aggressive game play and tactics. When I'm only making 5-10 dice rolls a turn, those dice become critical and I try to stack the modifiers on those dice as much as I can to either make the roll as difficult as possible for my opponent, or as easy as possible for me.

When I sit down across the table from my opponent and see his army, I know exactly what each guy is armed with, and how they will play on the table. If I have any doubt, I can request to see the model's card, where all it's rules are clearly printed and in one place. Sometimes there will be a FAQ for the model. Again, this can be annoying as you interrupt the game flow to look up a rule, but that's a wash as it happens in all three game systems.

Rules arguments have erupted during all games (Warmachine, 40K, Fantasy). It's about even IMHO. No rules system is perfect. I've ran into poor sports in Warmachine as well. Heck, I've probably been called a poor sport. Painting and modeling are about the same across all three systems. Converting is where 40K/Fantasy leads, but I'm not really that much into that aspect of the hobby.

In the end, it's like comparing apples to oranges to bananas. Some days, I want an orange. Some days, I want an apple. And then I go all crazy and eat a banana. Each game appeals to me in a different way and I like to play each one for different reasons. No game is really better then the other. Only what I get out of it. In the end, they are all games about little toy soldiers on a make believe battlefield. How can you take that seriously?

for one, I like the Size of it

sometime you just don't take warhammer troop, as "troop" anymore, you counted them as number

This may be a time for change then for me.
I take it there is no limit on warband size in H or WM?

I currently have the following:

Nids - £400+
Daemons - £300+
BA - £450+
Crons - £80+

Skaven - £500+


The list goes on, and to be honest, my wallet is really starting to suffer.
Any chance of a quick PM or post to explain the layout system of WM please?

Just want a general idea of what makes up a warband, as i may have to start dragging friends into it as many love 40k, but hate the severe costs.

Has to be menoth or cryx aswell due to looks.

Well....there is a point system.
So you will be limited to what you bring, but nothing is a mystery with said units brought .

Menoth is like a mix of Khador and Cryx, with a 'buff' focus.
Cryx are glass hammers and are tricxy and generally go for debuffing.

http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game

Link to the quick start rules.

basically a short overview of the game rules

I find I don't have enough time or money to play a bunch of games, so I only play the ones I really enjoy.

Warmachine took all the fun out of gw games for me, I find I really like thinking about whats going on on the table from turn to turn. I always felt like I could win most 40k games by building a good list, in warmachine or hordes I feel like I actually have to play the game if I want to win.

I can have the best list ever but if I don't play it correctly I will lose every game.
just my .02


@ jack, A sample army for menoth miight look somethig like this.


High Exemplar Kreoss
Repenter
Revenger
Crusader
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Flameguard Cleansers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Vassal Mechanik

25 points, you could buy this army from the war store for about 130.00 dollars us.
Hope this helps, good luck.

Thanks again
Ill get the rules downloaded now.

1 thing i want to check though.
I assume that scenario's / missions arent limited to a certain points value per warband?
So, would it be viable that if we kept building we could have an apoc sized game? (if 25 points is basic, i would be guessing 75 or so)



But in general, i love the jacks more than anything, allways been a robot fanboy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: All in all, are there any cryx players here that would let me drop them a PM or 2 on list building please?

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:This may be a time for change then for me.
I take it there is no limit on warband size in H or WM?

I currently have the following:

Nids - £400+
Daemons - £300+
BA - £450+
Crons - £80+

Skaven - £500+


The list goes on, and to be honest, my wallet is really starting to suffer.
Any chance of a quick PM or post to explain the layout system of WM please?

Just want a general idea of what makes up a warband, as i may have to start dragging friends into it as many love 40k, but hate the severe costs.

Has to be menoth or cryx aswell due to looks.

If you're looking for a cost comparison then here's a link to an article in bols from May that discusses the start up costs in a general manner. Click me.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Thanks again
Ill get the rules downloaded now.

1 thing i want to check though.
I assume that scenario's / missions arent limited to a certain points value per warband?
So, would it be viable that if we kept building we could have an apoc sized game? (if 25 points is basic, i would be guessing 75 or so)

35-50 is your average tournament size. There are rules for playing larger games, gaining the ability to take another Warcaster at the 100 point level and every 50 thereafter IIRC. Every warcaster added also doubles the field allowance of units, so a Khador army with Sorscha and Vlad could take 4 Manhunters and/or 4 units of Doom Reavers, for instance.

Scenarios aren't effected by point size, and typically involve holding zones on the table (Mosh Pit being my personal favorite) or occasionally destroying a structure in the opponent's DZ. All scenarios have a secondary win condition in killing all your opponent's warcasters, which lends the game a chess-like feel. Of course, you can remove that, but the game is pretty much over anyway once your spell support is gone and your warjacks are inert.

But in general, i love the jacks more than anything, allways been a robot fanboy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: All in all, are there any cryx players here that would let me drop them a PM or 2 on list building please?

Ah, another metal-head. Feel free to bother Tarot with any questions you have, although he'll be at work for another six hours. I can answer a lot of 'em from experience losing to Cryx as well.

Hmmm, do any of you get frequent temptations to start new armies or casters?

Warmachine is not a cheap game....

The peices themselves are fairly pricey but you need less of them.

For example, my 35 point Rhulic Army cost me $175 ish

its still an awsome game, and I have a tournement comeing up this weekend.

Catyrpelius wrote:Warmachine is not a cheap game....

The peices themselves are fairly pricey but you need less of them.

For example, my 35 point Rhulic Army cost me $175 ish

It may not be "cheap", but it is much, much, much cheaper compared to the grotesquely overpriced the GW stuff. I wish there's a competitive 1700-point army for 40K that I can put together for $175. Don't even get me started on WHFB.

I think $250 is a more realistic price point.
I put together a Thornfall 35pt list, and it came in at about that. And that's with newer beasts at new prices.

Lord Carver
War Hog x2
Gun Boar
Farrow Brigands, full x2
Farrow Bone Grinders, full x2
Pendrake, or any of the other allowed solos.

Personally, I think the older metal jacks are worth the ~$20 price I see. I would only pick up the new plastics to make up the new jacks.

As for price to GW, if it is a factor for you, buy 2nd hand.
The market is huge, and if you are willing to clean up models, good deals can be found from some of the horrid things I have seen on ebay.
The market for used warmachine isn't as big, mostly because the game isn't as old.
I am told Bartertown is great for either one though.

I was thinking of starting a Garryth tiered list. 35 points would cost me $247....but getting multiple squads of Mage Hunter Strike Force.......pains me.

The price with minature wargameing has never really bothered me. Some people have boats or fast cars, I have minatures.

Sanctjud wrote:Hmmm, do any of you get frequent temptations to start new armies or casters?

alot , everytime i think of a new strategy/faction, it flashes in my mind

"Hey X warcaster can do it, i just need this jack, that trooper, this solo, hmmm but the syngery requires that trooper too, and of course this solo would be better"

I made a 35 point list with supporting options around Errants.......I don't even have a caster or jacks to add to it yet XD

I just looked at Seaforge...............damn it.............

Sanctjud wrote:I was thinking of starting a Garryth tiered list. 35 points would cost me $247....but getting multiple squads of Mage Hunter Strike Force.......pains me.

A lot of the theme lists did this. At least you get 2 sculpts between the 4 Mage Hunter Assassins.

I'm trying to decide how to convert the Soulless attachments to be different to each other.

You can skate by with the MHSF by getting 2 boxes, and fielding 3 mins.

Well, interesting.
Dropping them to min size and dropping the UA, I can get Tier 4 at 25 points.......but the cookie cutter is killer

G-Unit
Chimera.
3 Min. Mage Hunters w/ Soulless.
3 MageHunter Assassins.
Nayl.

$166.00 by lazy methods.

Yeah, definitely get that feeling. There's a lot of fun stuff to play with! I just remind myself that I'm not buying a new faction until everything from my current one is fully painted.

I am so guilty of not having anything painted.
Still alot of Greenstuffing waiting in line :-(

I saw a guy at my FLGS with a fully painted army; the most impressive part to me were his bane thrall units. He'd greenstuffed cloaks and hoods on them and it looked badass!

I always want to start a "new" army. Most of the time though I calculate how much it wouild cost to make what I want and let the idea slide. It is not that I cannot afford it, because I could if I wanted, but if I see the pricetags on some of the models then I think well, there goes the shower (I am currently planning on redoing the bathroom )

This is also the reason why I have a lot of small armies, as I do like to collect the casters. I then also want to play them at a point so I collect the cheapest troops around them and start playing. (that is the reason I play croes with magnus, although they also look very cool..)

I tend to have a bit of ADD when collecting armies, so I've got a smattering of a lot of stuff, and a metric fuckton of Khador (Hey, I've been playing since Apotheosis. So sue me). Right now, I'm in the process of getting an Ashlynn list going, as well as a Caine list (hooray for overlap!). It's rather nice how quickly I can actually field said lists, as I generally have to sink less than a hundred bucks before it's playable (partially due to existing merc stocks, but still).

skrulnik wrote:
Personally, I think the older metal jacks are worth the ~$20 price I see. I would only pick up the new plastics to make up the new jacks.

For one who is shorter on time than cash, the new, magnetizeable plastics are a godsend