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Isn't this kinda silly? I'm not advocating anyone break the law or do anything unethical to get pre-release pictures of toy army men. But it seems equally ridiculous to think that people are engaging in vigilante-style internet investigations just to protect us from the Wrath of Jes. Do we really think that if we sacrifice a blurry-picture-leaking Frenchman to The Eternal Sculptor, that He will bless us with His great Works more frequently? Heck, at this point we don't even know if He is angered by the leak or even wants the sacrifice in the first place.

On the remotest chance that He is reading this, I'm trying to evoke his sculpting apotheosis partly to make fun of how seriously people are treating a pre-release picture of toy army men, but also because he is that damn good at sculpting for GW. I can't think of anything He's made that I think of as bad. From what I understand what success GW has as a company can basically be traced down to His work for them. So I don't think it's too strange to, within the Games Workshop domain at least, put him up on Olympus.

If I was GW though, I wouldn't worry about whether or not Jes is potentially angry about people seeing an early pic of a few of his models. What I'd be worried about is why there is only one Jes Goodwin. Seriously, if we have learned anything about this Dark Eldar wait-a-thon so far it's that simply saying that Jes Goodwin is working on the models is enough to satisfy most fans that they will be good (fans in denial about the existence of the project aside). We've had His holy name and the word of a couple other people alone that the models will be good, and that's been enough to sustain interest in this project for years. Why haven't they cloned this guy? Or better yet, why haven't they payed him a ton of money to get the rest of their sculptors trained up to his standards?

Imagine what GW would be if every model they released could be counted on to be near Goodwin-quality. They might finally be able to call themselves the Porsche of Gaming and have it mean something positive. And I might finally be able to retire this picture:

Bah!!! This is probably just another case of somebody over-reacting to the inevitable processes of the internet. Stuff if going to be leaked, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Perhaps because he put a lot of his time and energy into this project and he personally wants to be the one that does the big reveal, his way, rather then Joe Anonymous of the Internet with his crap camera phone. Alot of artists are very picky about when they debut their art, he's probably no exception. Or even think of bridezilla's on their wedding day, as another example. Some folks just want things done their way when its their day in the sun, and you can't really blame them.

Just my opinion on that matter. I personally don't care if he's angry(if he even is), but I could understand why he might be. No one likes having their thunder stolen.

Sidenote: I own 4 of those "porsche" models that you seem so fond of posting. 2 for Chariots and 2 for warmachine hunting. I love the ugly bastards!

people are engaging in vigilante-style internet investigations just to protect us from the Wrath of Jes

Wow. Some folks take this hobby a little to0 serious.

Did you read the post, angry third poster?

I'm not flaming you, just saying the post itself wasn't about why we care if he's angry, but why we should just let this die down because the models are going to be awesome. Simply because his models always are.

I'm not angry at all. Unfortunate if my post came off as such.

I guess I did miss the jist of the post though. Too much hyperbole for me to decipher the actual message. I was just trying to offer a reason why some folks may be feeling sorry for Jes.

I hear that.

Quite frankly, we should care if Jes Goodwin is angry.

Remember last time he got pissed off about someone leaking something he'd been working on in secret? The Harlequin line for the Eldar Codex?

We got the six-month window instituted, previews on the official GW website gone, and the Black Boxes became a privilege rather than something your store is guaranteed to get. Oh, and we got the "Space Hulk mystery box".

So yeah. We should care, if only because anytime someone feths it up for the rest of us because they can't keep their stupid camera phone in their pocket, we get more draconian measures instituted in regards to previews.

I find it pretty hard to believe the Jes Goodwin dictates GW marketing policies.

Kanluwen wrote:So yeah. We should care, if only because anytime someone feths it up for the rest of us because they can't keep their stupid camera phone in their pocket, we get more draconian measures instituted in regards to previews.

They can't get more draconian. It's literally only a week between the miniatures being shown off at Games Day and them being shipped out in the black boxes. I like Jes's work, but that's no reason to act like a prima donna.

AlexHolker wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So yeah. We should care, if only because anytime someone feths it up for the rest of us because they can't keep their stupid camera phone in their pocket, we get more draconian measures instituted in regards to previews.

They can't get more draconian. It's literally only a week between the miniatures being shown off at Games Day and them being shipped out in the black boxes. I like Jes's work, but that's no reason to act like a prima donna.

Which you're assuming he's doing based on what exactly? Random internet gossip? Since when did Jes become the moody king of GW?

Kanluwen wrote:So yeah. We should care, if only because anytime someone feths it up for the rest of us because they can't keep their stupid camera phone in their pocket, we get more draconian measures instituted in regards to previews.

Yeah, see, the way I see it if that's true then that's a pretty big problem with GW. Not with us.

They're running up against two inherent character traits of the nerd. The nerd always wants to know what's coming next, and the nerd always wants to show they know more about their nerdly hobbies than their rival nerds by scooping them with privileged information. And as long as there is a community of GW nerds for us to be a part of, someone from that community is going to try and leak unreleased information. It's a basic fact of life that GW may be able to influence but will never eliminate.

So you are saying that GW is punishing their entire customer base with information controls because of the actions of a couple over-zealous nerds. These controls are at best a minor annoyance to anyone who actually likes their game and wants more information, and at worst something that sabotages GW's potential profits by weakening fan interest. Why should we even have a notion that some people "feth it up for the rest of us"? I didn't go to France, buy an iPhone, and snap a blurry picture. Neither I suspect, did most of you. If GW decided their entire marketing process around counter-acting a handful of people who are really, really excited about their product, wouldn't that be kinda silly?

"the nerd" is also tremendously entitled and thinks that a 'close to the chest' release policy is somehow personally insulting. "The nerd" needs to relax more. I've heard painting models and playing games can help with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

plastictrees wrote:"The nerd" is also tremendously entitled and thinks that a 'close to the chest' release policy is somehow personally insulting. "The nerd" needs to relax more. I've heard painting models and playing games can help with that.

plastictrees wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:They can't get more draconian. It's literally only a week between the miniatures being shown off at Games Day and them being shipped out in the black boxes. I like Jes's work, but that's no reason to act like a prima donna.

Which you're assuming he's doing based on what exactly? Random internet gossip? Since when did Jes become the moody king of GW?

I'm assuming this for the sake of argument. Either it is true, in which case Kanluwen is wrong because GW is literally incapable of tightening the screws any further, or it is false, in which case Kanluwen is wrong by default.

plastictrees wrote:I've heard painting models and playing games can help with that.

And I'll be happy to, when GW gets around to releasing those plastic Sisters of Battle I've been waiting for for over a decade.

Well, GW could stop releasing anything, ever. That would teach us.

I don't really get the issue with GWs preview policy. I understand that people like to see new things...but we still get to see them, we just have to wait longer, which only matters when you're transitioning between release schedules. Once you're into the "previews within weeks of release" cycle, you're still going to be consistently seeing upcoming models.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

AlexHolker wrote:
And I'll be happy to, when GW gets around to releasing those plastic Sisters of Battle I've been waiting for for over a decade.

Sounds to me like you've had plenty of time to make your own plastic SoBs. Lazy.

I think all the situation is very silly.

I admire and envy Jes. I admire him because he has done a lot of awesome minis I love. I envy him because in a million years I couldn't sculpt nor actually design anything as cool as the things he has done. So well, I guess I'm kind of a fan. I would easily say that I'm an Iron Maiden fan or a Star Wars (OT) fan. So at last, I feel a lot of respect for the people involved in their creations. Disclaimer: I might have lost some respect for George Lucas through the years.

If DE have been in stores for 12 years, I've been appealed by the army for about ten years. Not the "oldest school", but a quite oldie one. I've been waiting for this release for about three years actually, when I heard the first rumours about a possible revamp of the range. I NEED pics xD When I was following the shooting and production of Star Wars Episode III, I didn't spoil myself the script, but I loved to see pics. And it happens with every movie. I think it's same situation here. Some of them might be published by the creators, some of them might be "stolen" (I don't know if you call it this way in English, we do in Spanish, but not in a very serious way). However all of them contribute to the hype.

If I could have taken* some pics, and didn't know that the author would be upset, I would upload them. If I knew that the author would be upset, I wouldn't upload them. But that's just MY opinon based on RESPECT on a SINGLE person/company/artist/whatever. Opinions are not laws. So who the feth am I to chase anyone posting a pic of a commercial product on the internet? The internet police? LOL For feth sake, it's not a pic of a children.

And probably the most important point, as OP has stated: we're talking about prosecution and e-stalking, and we don't even actually know if Jes as the creator or GW as the company are giving a feth about this pic. Or if they even know it exists. Or if they have leaked it purposely. Or if...

Overreactions! Overreactions everywhere!

Cheers!

* grammarhell, I don't know what I've written there lol

AlexHolker wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So yeah. We should care, if only because anytime someone feths it up for the rest of us because they can't keep their stupid camera phone in their pocket, we get more draconian measures instituted in regards to previews.

I like Jes's work, but that's no reason to act like a prima donna.

Prima donna? Really?

We'll come back to you, when you start churning out high quality models sculpted by yourself, worked on for years under an information blackout because you genuinely want to be the person to reveal them to the gamers who've been waiting for them...

And then we'll put up a half-arsed blurry photograph for people to base their opinions on, for random internet wankjobs to criticize.

That's what got Jes riled up last time. When people were claiming that the test-greens and 3ups of the Harlequin Troupe and Warwalker models were absolute crap, and going off a camera phone shot taken over Jes' shoulder while he was working on them.

It's like the toolbags who claim that the film they're watching on a torrent(which was shot by some sleazebag with a pocket videocamera with horrible resolution) is a "terribly shot jittery mess", or the people who make decisions about bands playing live based on a recording from some arse sitting in the back row with a recorder with a built-in mic.

You can't make any kind of real decision about the quality out of those situations simply because you're working from a flawed rendering of the product in question.

It is a question of respect. Google the word

Kroothawk wrote:It is a question of respect. Google the word

Ok, you summarize way better than I do

Kanluwen wrote:Prima donna? Really?

Yes. If everything you attributed to him being pissed off was true, then this means Jes Goodwin grossly overreacted. If you think it's unreasonable to suggest this would be the behaviour of a prima donna, perhaps you should read your own post and what you claim he did.

While I can understand that people want to see pictures of upcoming stuff or even WIP's, it is not your right to see them whenever you want.

Conversely, if you are working on something and you know there is a lot of interest in it (or even that there is not a lot of interest in it), is there really anything wrong with releasing the odd teaser picture every now and then? Even if you only release pictures of a cloak clasp, or a wrist bracer, etc, you maintain and possibly increase interest in your work while not revealing the whole project.

Plus then you control the images that are released - you can ensure they are of high quality. People have less need to take/see blury pictures and even if someone does, they have the high quality studio shots to look at to dispell any doubts they may have over how the project will actually look at the end.

But then this is GW we are talking about...

No matter how tight their security is, there will always be someone who is able to get news, gossip and crappy pictures. They may as well put out an official line, to control what is released and the quality of the information (both written and image based) about their upcoming releases.

They tried the "control the images that are released" method, timing everything around Games Days in case you'll recall.

It went about as well as them just not showing anything.

Erasoketa - "taken" is perfect. Your grammar is impeccable.

I don't understand why Jes is getting his knickers twisted over this. Sure it kinda sucks to have a little bit of your thunder stolen, but it's a really little bit - it's a crappy, blurry phone pic of the new Warriors.

To use Erasoketa's analogy above - I check movie blogs, games sites and a bunch more to get that extra inside info on the things I love. I don't spoil it for myself at all, and the first Transformers movie still blew me away, besides all the crappy phone videos I'd watched on Youtube showing the in-progress production.

We're geeks, this is what we do. The DE release will be no worse for it. The crowds will still cheer, the fans will still cry.

Grow up Jes, you're an adult now, stop throwing your toys out of the pram and realise that the job you do will forever be rife with this. And it can only get worse over time. If you don't like it, go work at Morrison's.

Kanluwen wrote:They tried the "control the images that are released" method, timing everything around Games Days in case you'll recall.

It went about as well as them just not showing anything.

GW still haven't managed to update their practices to the internet. It's impossible to contain everything so secretly. And when just one person releases an image, well there's little point in lashing out at the whole customer base by saying that no one deserves previews or anything. Why is total secrecy, an end to previews and use of 'mystery boxes' the solution to leaked previews? They now have a situation where leaked previews are the only source for their customers to see anything, surely that will exacerbate the situation. Added to which their handling of the mystery box was farcical, they could had simply declined to talk about it but instead they actually lied to their customer and claimed it wasn't Space Hulk.

As for talk of prosecutions? People need to step back and realise these are toy soldiers. No one is being prosecuted for anything, get a grip. The police are not going to get involved over someone taking a photo from a book and putting it online. You only get criminal proceedings in extreme cases of copyright theft and piracy. If GW can find the person they might lose their job but that's all.

It's all speculation anyway. Jes Goodwin hasn't commented on the leak has he? The supposition made so afar is that he knows about it and that he's intensely angry, but then there's a theory he might have been the one leaking it. And then there's this talk that if the customers track down the culprit of this devious crime of releasing a picture then they might be able to placate Jes (who may or may not be angry) to prevent him from smiting the customer base further. Because as we all know, Jes calls the shot when it comes to marketing and sales in GW.

Typical internet storm in a teacup.

Tek wrote:I don't understand why Jes is getting his knickers twisted over this. Sure it kinda sucks to have a little bit of your thunder stolen, but it's a really little bit - it's a crappy, blurry phone pic of the new Warriors.

Is he getting his knickers in a twist/upset/annoyed about the leak, or is somebody assuming this?

At the end of the day, I can see why Jes would get annoyed about the leak as he might have wanted to show off his babies, but we are only assuming this. I can't see this taking anything from 'his' day (or how people are seeing it) as we are all getting excited about some blurry pictures. What will happen when we see the real ones!!!

Also I think GW will be happy as they have probably got a lot more people going to Games Day because of this (I've been tempted but got to go away for work on that day).

Tek wrote:Erasoketa - "taken" is perfect. Your grammar is impeccable.

Thank you, Sir

Tek wrote:I don't understand why Jes is getting his knickers twisted over this. Sure it kinda sucks to have a little bit of your thunder stolen, but it's a really little bit - it's a crappy, blurry phone pic of the new Warriors.
[...]
Grow up Jes, you're an adult now, stop throwing your toys out of the pram and realise that the job you do will forever be rife with this. And it can only get worse over time. If you don't like it, go work at Morrison's.

We usually like to post pics of our minis, conversions and such, because we aren't really sure of what kind of feedback we are going to have, or even if we are going to receive feedback at all. The comments and criticism are welcome, to help us to improve, because many times we aren't fully satisfied with the result. I guess it's quite different with people like Jes Goodwin and other artists. They know that there is people waiting for the final piece, and that they have normally high expectations. So keeping it free from public comments until they have made something they're satisfied would be something that makes them feel "safer".

But I think they should understand also that this is not just art. It's something more. It's not a sculpture for a gallery or a museum. People is not just going to criticize the piece. People is going to buy it, so it makes us think that we have some kind rights that we actually don't have. We the customers might act a bit childish way, but we are the customers after all. If the product is sold, they will be able to produce more different stuff. So giving us some love (in the shape of information) would not be IMHO bad at all.

Maybe poor quality leaked pics produce negative comments about the product that wouldn't exist with only a good appearance preview. And maybe this comments affect the general opinion and finally the sales, so Jes might have some kind of pressure from the company for it. I don't know. I guess money is always something easy to blame on

Gaz Taylor wrote:

Tek wrote:I don't understand why Jes is getting his knickers twisted over this. Sure it kinda sucks to have a little bit of your thunder stolen, but it's a really little bit - it's a crappy, blurry phone pic of the new Warriors.

Is he getting his knickers in a twist/upset/annoyed about the leak, or is somebody assuming this?

At the end of the day, I can see why Jes would get annoyed about the leak as he might have wanted to show off his babies, but we are only assuming this. I can't see this taking anything from 'his' day (or how people are seeing it) as we are all getting excited about some blurry pictures. What will happen when we see the real ones!!!

Also I think GW will be happy as they have probably got a lot more people going to Games Day because of this (I've been tempted but got to go away for work on that day).

Yeah, it's only a presumption based on a similar experience that happened years ago. We don't actually know it. It's probably the biggest point in this... dullness?

You never know, it might be Jes himself who leaked the pictures. GW may be clamping down so much on leaks that they are not letting anyone take pictures of stuff until they have already released everything... unless they are now being so secret that they are just going to release empty boxes with no artwork on the outside.

That way no one will ever know what they are working on! Bwahaha!

I wonder what would happen to GW if Jes Goodwin was killed?

Pre-painted plastics? LOL

If people are going to be Internet White Knights (TM) at least do it for the benefit of some cute girl and not some grown man at GW.

Erasoketa wrote:Yeah, it's only a presumption based on a similar experience that happened years ago. We don't actually know it. It's probably the biggest point in this... dullness?

What happened and did he really comment on anything or was it all hearsay?

Gaz Taylor wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:Yeah, it's only a presumption based on a similar experience that happened years ago. We don't actually know it. It's probably the biggest point in this... dullness?

What happened and did he really comment on anything or was it all hearsay?

Touché, I've only read references in internet forums, it could easily be an urban legend. Wich makes this situation still more stupid