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[ Hello again, well while i get my armies delivered, I'm still looking for tips on painting, i already had answers for painting them as Imperial Fist's, which i'm very grateful, but now i got new doubt,on the priming techniques... i've been practiving on palstic soldiers (the ones you can get by the bucket) but it looks like the quality of the plastic is not the same as the one gw uses in its miniatures, and also i haven't got my citadel pains yet, so i bouth a really cheap acrilic paints just to get a hold of the pulse and such, so these are my doubts:

Do I need to use some kind of sealant with the basecoating on my Wh40k figure?

Are citadel piants made with somo sort of sealant mixed?

I mean, besides the fact that i have to wash the blister with all the parts as soon as Im bout to paint, but how can i prevent the paint coming off?

Thanks Guys, your tips, will do a lot of help.

don't spray seal right after you've base coated. That will just make the paint have a harder time sticking to the primer. Only seal when you're done.

as far as I know, no paint contains a sealant in it by default unless it specifically states that it does.

as for how to keep the paint from flaking off, sealant helps, but the best way is to just be kind to them. Only handle with clean hands, don't literally throw them into a pile when they die on the table top, etc.

as for white or black primer, that depends if you want grimdark imperial fists which have been fighting in the mud, or shiny plastic imperial fists who look just like they walked off the assembly line.

Yeah, I think it might also be the fact you're using plastic army men you can get by the dime as a practice. Paint isn't going to stick all to well with those since they are made from a very different plastic. When painting my plastic GW models usually a base coat of primer and then your paint will do. I've found that it's hard to chip off the paint from the GW plastic models so you really don't need a sealant. If we're talking metal figures then yes, you will definitely need a sealant. You also said cheap acrylic paints, what kind are you using? That may also play a factor in how well they set on your model and how easy they are to work with. I recommend either Tamiya or Citadel acrylics. They're somewhat pricey ($3-$4), but they have a wide range of colors and are pretty durable once they dry.

As a fellow imperial fist collector I wouldn't recommend using black for your base coat you can get some fine results with black but white is simply easier and better especially if your new to painting yellow which many people consider one of the hardest colours to get right. I highly recommend a white primer followed by Iyanden darksun ( citadel foundation paint ) followed by your choice of yellow with a wash of a light brown or sepia. And as already said use a sealant after you finish the model if you want to but in many cases if you treat your mini's well you don't need one.

Great tips!!! Thankx

I'm planning to use citadel paints, since here in Mexico, those are the ones I can get, other kinds of paints, like vallejo paints and tamiya, are hard to find, (I've been looking)., lemme tell you the name of the paints, but i assure you they're not the best quality.... "Politech Pinturas Acrilicas (Acrylic paints in spanish) but yeah, the kinds of plastic are way different.

INcredible, how come people have told me thta white primer is a hard color, and I've reading from this replies and other sites on the web, that it's a faster and better color to prime with.


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Great tips!!! Thankx

I'm planning to use citadel paints, since here in Mexico, those are the ones I can get, other kinds of paints, like vallejo paints and tamiya, are hard to find, (I've been looking)., lemme tell you the name of the paints, but i assure you they're not the best quality.... "Politech Pinturas Acrilicas (Acrylic paints in spanish) but yeah, the kinds of plastic are way different.

INcredible, how come people have told me thta white primer is a hard color, and I've reading from this replies and other sites on the web, that it's a faster and better color to prime with.

White primer is harder because it won't hide your mistakes as well as black. BUT... if you are painting Imperial Fists, you are better off using white spray primer as it's a real pain to paint yellow over black.

Excellent, will take that into account,my knowledge keeps growing thanx to all the tips, I'll definetely will upload pics from my "fists"once they are painted.

About the brushes? I have bought a set of Rodin brushes 0,00, 000 and a 10... since an experienced whgamer recommended me to use those, because they are resistant and high quality... but I know there are ones called "Malinsky" or some-like-german-name.

Any thoughts?

Thnx.

Kolinsky is the word you are after.

It is the type of fibre that is used in the tip of the brush. They are generally thought to be the top end of the paint brush spectrum and the characteristics of the fibre itself lends themselves towards miniature painting quite well.

Furthermore, often high end Kolinsky Sable brushes (like Windsor and Newton Series 7) have their fibres hand selected and are made by hand, so they quality of the brush can often be higher.

They will cost more than other brushes, but with some care they can last you for years.

Primers are designed to give a better adhesion to the model than 'from the pot' paints. Once you have primed your mini this will give a key for your other paints to adhere to.

Things that will affect adhesion are:

>mould release agent on the mini from casting
>over handling of the mini will leave oils from your skin
>poor priming, if you over shake your primer you will add to much aerosol to the paint giving the primer a more gloss quality in regards to adhesion.

If you do not water your paints do not get Kolinsky brushes. The reason you use sable is for the reservoir of paint it retains. If you are not used to this method then either get used to it or go for synthetic brushes instead as these are far better for out of the pot painting.
Also personally I find Da Vinci to be a better quality of brush but that is just personal preference.

As winter says as well these brushes are an investment, you have to take care great care with them. Be aware also that cleaning products for the brushes have to be carefully selected as the brush is a natural product it does not respond well to harsh cleaners

So, bottom line Kolinsky nad Da Vinci brushes are highend quality and not recommended for rookie paintors right.... so i suppose starting off with my rodin set would be a great start and the further on i can get hands on one of those brushes.

I've seen that they wash the plastic parts while the're on the blister and then cut them out, can it be any kind of soap, or is also some recommendations?

Thanx for all the tips on brushes "Winter" and "lenny"

Kolinsky is the type of Sable used for the bristles. Da Vinci is one brand of brushmakers that produce Kolinsky sable brushes, they are in my opinion an exceptional quality, however I have not used Windsor Newtons so I cannot compare. And I'm not saying the newer painters shouldn't use them, just be aware that they are less forgiving of bad treatment. In fact check this out, its long but research is always good if you don't want to waste money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eACqcAQdw2U


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For cleaning your sprue use warm water with a little bit of dish soap into it. The soap needs to have a degreasing element to it or it will not break down the release agent. And as I say insure that the water is warm and not hot so as to not warp any of the components.

I don't know of anyone who washes their plastics before painting, even a guy who does Golden Demon in a club I used to know just does the flash then undercoats.

I've never washed them and never had a problem. The thing is, most of this is personal preference. Just have a go with the right kind of paints first, use the brushes then upgrade as and when you feel it is necessary.

Your first set of brushes you'll probably render useles quite quickly until you learn how to look after them. Again, with brush care some people are particular with adding specialist brush cleaner and brush conditioner etc, some just dunk in water, rinse, lick to a point and done.

@Elmodiddly - Yeah, I don't wash sprues either but the OP was asking things that may affect adhesion, plus its better to have the knowledge and then discard as appropriate I find.

Your definitely right this is all preference, though some things are not optional like using the wrong products on bristles, this is where you need to be careful because else the cost of the hobby rises dramatically.

Hello again, and thanks for all the comments and responses, they are a lot of help for me. Now I come with yet another question, this one regarding washes from citadel. I don't know what wash it's most suitable for an imperial fist chapter painting scheme, I know that it is most likely a personal prefference, but i would like to read your comments about it.

I was planning on using the Badab Black Wash on my figures, but since I'll be pianting them yellow, would the Gryphonne Sepia Wash be more suitable? Or not use any kind of wash?

Thanx.

The black wash would be best used on the metals on the model, the bolter and such. It would be far too dark on the yellow of the armor and could make your hard work getting that yellow nice and bright go to waste. Sepia wash would be far better.

You could avoid using any wash at all, but unless you plan on manually shading the models, they'll appear pretty flat. The washes help add definition to the details of the model, especially the lines in the armour, the legs and arms for example.

Thnx a lot Marushi!!!

If you were wanting to black-line your models then Badab would be fine. However most painters agree that today this style gives the fists a bit of a cartoony look.

Personally I build my yellows from a white undercoat, washed with develan mud, base coated Iyaden DS - leaving the recesses showing, wash Sepia, final highlights.

The brown wash gives a darker shadow whilst the sepia lends a yellow hue thus helping to tie in the shadows and hightlights.

Hmmm interesting facts, never thought of the develan mud until now... looks that I have a lot of testing ahead of me, 'til i find one that suits me.

By the way, does "bad moon yellow" exists or existed in itadel colours? Is it the same as golden yellow? Or how can i achieve that colour?

And, Does metallic paints need to be diluted? I heard that it spreads the "shiny-thingy's-out-of-them"

Thnx!

Bad Moon did exist, not sure if it still does. I can tell you however that Golden yellow and Bad moon were two very different colours as far as I can remember.

With metallics a small amount of water can be used if the paint is slightly older or drier than normal, however excess amounts of water will lead to a very washed out looking metallic paint.

Excellent, thnx Lenny

I would say good brushes will benefit even a novice painter, as long as you look after them.

I wouldn't let my 3-year-old use mine, but I'd say if you're old enough to be playing 40K and posting here, you're old enough for decent brushes.

Why hold yourself back with inferior tools.

Put another way, when you're spending $30-$50 for a box of minis, saving $5 by buying a cheap brush is a false economy.


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Bad Moon Yellow was discontinued some time back. Just add some white to Sunburst Yellow.

Golden Yellow is too orange.

Yeah, I think i now have a good set of brushes of good quality, but thanx for the comment. On the other hand, i had some trouble in paradise, I don't understand why or what happened... I was trying to prime my Space Marine with skull white but as i was stroking i couldn't see the paint cover up the grey in full, instead it made black patches along the way, making it look grey, (of course i tried with black, and well black, with one pass, the mini was done) so i decided to let it dry a little bit and try and apply another coat of white, after a while and a few coats more, around 4, the mini ended up being pasty and with black patches. What did I do wrong? Not enough diluted? To soon on applying the coats? In another episode, i painted my mini black, let it dry for a long while, then tried to apply sunburst yellow, but it gave me the same trouble I had with white coating, the yellow just couldn't cover up the black as i thought it would, doesn't it has to cover it up with a nice--almost-one-single-stroke???

I know that white and yellow are bright colors and struggle on covering dark colour such as grey and black... please help. It's worth to mention this is my first time painting, so the only idea i have is from the valuable tips i have from dakka and youtube, but for me... it turn to be quite a wear-down and frustation.

Hope you can orient me.

Thanx

It sounds as if your white paint may have been a little too thin.

Can we take a step back here though - what primer are you using, if any?

Primer?! Well i thought painting a mini from "sprue-grey" to white skull was the primer step... am I wrong?

No, you need a proper primer. In order of (my) preference:

Spray Primer, whether it's GW or other
Airbrush Primer
Brushed Gesso (from an art store)

Your skull white is the base coat, which goes over the primer. If you use a white primer you could skip the basecoat, although you would probably still want a thin coat of Skull White.

Real primer has "teeth" - you can feel a slight roughness that helps the following layers of paint to adhere.

If you can't find GW or similar primer, try a car paint supplier, but make sure it's safe for plastic!