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Now that Team Survivor 2 is underway, I'm going to open discussion about direction for Team Survivor 3 - Horus Heresy.

My initial thought is something like this:

Players
Each Player controls 1 unit, representing a mighty Hero

Stats
Each Hero starts with 20 hits, losing effectiveness only at 3 or less

Locations
5 to 7 locations in a line, with Loyalists and Traitors all choosing a Deployment option from TS1.

Actions
2 Actions per Player per day, but with a minimum 2-hr delay between any 3 (or more) actions.

Abilities
Pick 3 Abilities, and stack up to 3 Abilities per Action.

NPCs & Monsters
No NPCs or Monsters - Loyalists vs Traitors will be plenty enough

Relics
Each Player has one Relic, which confers one more Ability; Players can carry up to 3 Relics total

Loyalists
Captain (Fighter; no Tank)
Chaplain (Tank)
ATSKNF (Tank); no Psykers or Devourers

Traitors
Champion (Attacker; no Psyker)
Sorceror (Psyker; no Attacker)
may choose Marks; no Healers or Medics


Thoughts
Possibly to add "super Actions" like summoning


Thoughts or comments?


Also, please post if you're interested in playing.

Could play and I guess you know where I will be.

I think it needs more items ( relics ? ) than other team threads.
Summoning ? Are there NPC?
Maybe summoned creatures and special weapons with limited ammo as temporary boost?

2 actions per day / user with 2 hours inbetween sounds ok. Should it be like basic survivor and x amount of actions allow to ignore the 2 hours delay?

I assume you'll lead the Traitors, right?

Every player will bring at least one Relic. When players die, surviving players will start to collect Relics and become more powerful.

I'm thinking no NPCs, aside from what players summon/build.

It'll be like Team Survivor 1, just with 2 big teams.

Me leading the unbelievers?



So, if I read this correctly, every character gets 3 abilities plus one from his relic plus 1-2 from 'reclaimed' relics?
Which of those can be stacked?
( now , I am not sure stacking is a good idea. Maybe have a few days of TS 2 UH202 playtime to review before deciding to keep/use stacking? )

Do we have 18 or 20 Legio's?
Astartes only?
Who is team leader? A high ranking captain ( ala 1st captain ) ?



PS: And this vote for treachery was from ........?

There aren't any other votes, so it must be Traitors, right?

Stacking will cap at 3, but we'll see more interesting stacks here. Pick the best 3 out of however many the character has.

Stacking "works" in 40k, so it should be OK here - you can stack a PW with a strength enhancement or Furious Charge, for example.

Nominally, 18 Legions, but I'm thinking to limit the initial HH Game to just those forces at Istvaan. Horus Heresy II can shift to the Siege of Terra.

Team Leader would actually be a problem, and I'm thinking that we don't need Leaders per se, unless people *want* Warmasters on each side.

Also, Dakka Mail is *not* suitable, because you can't multi-cast / reply to all. I think each side would want to set up a private BBS somewhere to talk strategy & tactics. I didn't do it for TS1, but in hindsight, I would have.

Other comments?

Don't do Istvaan

Loyalists had just 3 legio's there vs most of the traitors.
Would restrict the choice greatly.

Or do we some sort of free play, where the real allegiances are fictional and not following the official background?

I am fine with no warmaster. Last time it turned out to lead to heresy .....

Why not? We can actually do a series of games:

* Istvaan III Loyalists vs Traitors within Horus, WE, DG & EC

* Istvaan V, 1st assault is Salamanders, RG & IH vs Horus, WE, DG & EC, ignoring the unaligned reserves (NL, IW, AL & WB).

* Istvaan V, 2nd reserves is Salamanders, RG & IH vs revealed traitors (NL, IW, AL & WB).

Or we could relocate :

* Calth as Ultras vs WBs.


lots of choices!

I'll play Alpha Legion
For the emperor.... or something

Thinking about it, Istvann III is probably the best choice, because it becomes very "clean" in terms of options:

Loyalist
* no Psyker or Devourer

Loyalist Type
* Captain (Fighter)
* Chaplain (Tank)

Loyalist Legion
* Luna Wolves (?)
* Death Guard (?)
* World Eaters (?)
* Emperor's Children (?)

Loyalist Relic
* ??? (+?)
* ??? (+?)
* ??? (+?)


Traitor
* No Medic or Healer

Traitor Type
* Champion (Attacker)
* Sorcorer (Psyker)

Traitor Legion
* Sons of Horus (MoCU ?)
* Death Guard (MoN ?)
* World Eaters (MoK ?)
* Emperor's Children (MoS ?)

Traitor Relic
* ??? (+?)
* ??? (+?)


Common Abilities
+ pick(s) for a total 4 starting Abilities per player


I'm somewhat of a fan of "restricted choice", in that the limitations help define contrasts more clearly, but wonder what others might think.

@1had: would you be OK playing one of the Loyalists who didn't turn Traitor with the rest of their Legion?

@LoB: If we were to shrink to a more restricted set of only 4 Legion choices at Isvaan III, how would that work for you?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
@1had: would you be OK playing one of the Loyalists who didn't turn Traitor with the rest of their Legion?

I wouldn't play any of the turncoats. So the real space marines who accepted their dutys and kept their oath are welcome.
All four seem to have some characters. Will consider one of them.







PS: Loyal 'sons of horus' renamed themselves to Luna Wolves.

OK, that works.

I'll fix the Loyalists keeping as Luna Wolves.

@ John: I'm fine, how about you put me down for traitor World eaters Champion

OK, cool. Tho when we get around to it, you'll be able to choose for yourself.

I'm definitely interested but I think we'll need to learn more from TeamS Game 2 before committing to too much about these rules.

Yeah, right now, what I'm seeing is:

1. Stacked attacks work well against "fragile" 5-pt humans. That was a deliberate design point for Game 2, and why I wanted larger gangs to test combinations. Game 3 being Mighty Heroes in PA will start at 20 hits, maybe 25 hits, so they'll take a lot more punishment, even if hits ramp up to 3+3 per turn.

2. Stacking needed more clarification. What a mess, and I take full responsibility for the rules not being clear. The new Stacking rules are clearer, and the examples should help, but will still likely need further refinement as we go along.

3. Leader can be a strong power with the right Teammates to leverage. Originally, I hadn't wanted Leader as a power, because the Teams would be large, but maybe it'll be OK.

I'm sure we'll see more stuff as TS2 progresses. TS2 is a brutal game. Far meaner than TS1.

From the way TS2 appears to be shaping up, we're about to see a Good v Evil brawl...

Ok, so who' is willing to beat the crap out of these vile Traitors?
I mean, only 3 votes for the oathbreakers and none in favor of our glorious Lord at Terra?

If it's a big problem, I think John and I (Manchu) can agree to be on different sides of the Heresy in TeamS 3--that leaves someone still allying with 1hadhq, however.

For TS3, 1hadhq said he'll be Loyalists, and I'll (JHDD) play Traitors, so that guarantees a split.

Manchu will be Kingmaker. :shudder:

Not sure how much influence 3 posters can have, but we need as many regulars posters as possible.
So I, 1hadhq, am part of the Loyalist force.
John seems to aim for defeat and sides with the warmaster.
Manchu hopefully has his interweb sorted out then and is personally attending ( instead of someone else running his stuff ).





And YOU are?

I will add last and go to whichever side needs the numbers (as per complaints in the other thread).

@1hadhq, I see 1 loyalist, that's you?

@Manchu: that works!

@ John: Moi?

Who else.


Those loyal to him were down on 6 Legio's back in the day and still won.
Would not assume youre chances are that good, as I have the Emperor on my side and all you got is some smelly warp creatures.

We'll see...

Your emperor should kiss my smelly warp creatures behind

Lord of battles wrote:Your emperor should kiss my smelly warp creatures behind

Oh really? There may be nothing left to kiss when I/we ( do I stand alone? ) are done with ya.

Still need more players.

Yes, need more players!

Just as an update: I am currently no closer to having internet at home. Well, a tiny bit. We've been thinking of ClearWire. Anyway, I hope this doesn't start really soon.

For the record, my DSL has been out for the past week...

Don't go Verizon.

OK, looks like TS2 is about done, so I'll work on getting TS3 rules together next week. Keep your eyes on this thread, and chime in with anything that you're looking for.

OK... any comments on what people would like, or should I just go from what I had above?

Would suggest:

- no shared control anymore, each player has 1 unit/squad/army/crusade under his/her control. Those absent either find a willing additional player ( reserves? ).
or miss their turn.
- less complicated . A character sheet with tons of stats and options is fine for RPG. But this is survivor.
Just wounds, maybe armor, attacks and 1 or 2 specials are enough IM(H)O.
- equipment => boni. Should be 1 basic item plus any found later. Set a maximum to restrict abilities as I don't believe MC's are wanted.
- only 2 factions: maybe allocate wounds to every opponent in the same location like regular 40k? Leads to squad vs squad fights....

And this still needs more loyal marines.
Remember TS works if active Teams are present, so choose your side and stop hiding ( you not an ultramarine right? so join the action ).

Thanks for your comments, 1hadhq.

To clarify / confirm:

* each player will control 1 Hero (Traitor or Loyalist); you snooze, you lose.

* TS3 will follow the previous TS1 / TS2 format of wounds and abilities. It sounds like you're recommending that TS3 use the same ability set. If simplicity is desired, then I won't add more abilities to the list, even tho it is possible to have up to 26 of them...

* equipment will be simple, just add another ability. stacking will be possible, with some limits.

* only 2 factions (Traitors / Loyalists). Fights will be one-on-one, mano-a-mano, just like TS1 & TS2. No "blast" weapons.

* maybe the number of Traitors is why the Loyalists mostly died at Istvaan III and had to flee? Perhaps you can have other Loyalists for a better outcome?

* No Ultras at Istvaan III - just real fighters.