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The other day I was skimming through the Imperial Guard Codex and something dawned on me, this army has some of the most useless units in the game. Now I'll be honest other armies in the game have useless units as well. Before I continue let me define a useless unit: A useless unit is either 1. A unit that is to many points for its function. 2. No one seems to use the unit in their army. 3. The unit does not fit into any of the themed armies of the Codex. For example Space Marines have Vanguard Veterans which are overpriced for what they do, Chaos have the Defiler which no one seems to use anymore, and Orkz have Meganobs which are just way to expensive similar to Vanguard Vets. So basically I'm gonna go down the list of units that I think are useless Imperial Guard units because to me it seems like Imperial Guard has the most of these. I am purely going from experience at my FLGS and on what I see and I think, if you have an opinion about my list PLEASE voice it I want to hear what you guys think because I would like to try some of these units if you guys can prove me wrong. Thank you.

1. Primaris Psyker-Takes up an HQ choice and all you get is some really fething bad Lightning Arc ability and Nightshroud which if your oppenent is smart he'll just ignore this bad unit and concentrate on the rest of your army.
2. Techpriest Enginseers-Way to many points that you could just add to another unit in your army not to mention that most Mech Guard armies have enough tanks that having a weapon destroyed or immobilized really isn't that bad.
3. Ministorum Priests-Is this a joke, trying to make Imperial Guard good at close combat?
4. Penal Legion Troopers-I can't see where they fit into an Imperial Guard army not to mention I had a guy use these on me and I promptly killed 30 of them in one turn. Personally I think their a cool unit, but useless.
5. Ogryns-Once again way to expensive for what they do though the multiple wounds does help a bit. Plus these guys are expensive models to buy unless you convert Ogres.
6. Ratlings-Used prevalently prior to 5th edition now you don't see them at all which is funny because of the new sniper rifle rules.
7. Rough Riders-Great first shock and awe unit can potentially wipe out a normal Terminator squad if given the charge but after that they are relegated to...well...doing absolutely nothing with their laspistols.
8. Storm Troopers-One of my favorite units in the game and I used to use them all throughout 4th edition but now they are WAY to overpriced and you can't even give them 3 meltaguns like Vets, forget it.
9. Leman Russ standard tank, Exterminator, and Vanquisher-No one uses these especially the standard tank, prior to 4th edition it used to be a great tank now its next to pointless when you have the Executioner and Demolisher.
10. Basalisk,Colossus, and Griffon-No one uses these tanks although once again prior to this edition the Basilisk was an awesome tank now with TLOS and the Medusa it just doesn't make sense anymore especially with AP3.
11. Deathstrike-Very awesome unit wish it was used more and had more than one shot, but mostly an Alpha Strike weapon that becomes pointless after its fired.
12. Valkyrie-I've heard its good at anti-infantry yet EVERY Guard army I have fought ALWAYS uses the Vendetta never the Valkyrie.

Sanguinis wrote:
1. Primaris Psyker-Takes up an HQ choice and all you get is some really fething bad Lightning Arc ability and Nightshroud which if your oppenent is smart he'll just ignore this bad unit and concentrate on the rest of your army.

I wouldn't say useless, but I would probably be taking a Company Command and a Lord Commissar over it.

2. Techpriest Enginseers-Way to many points that you could just add to another unit in your army not to mention that most Mech Guard armies have enough tanks that having a weapon destroyed or immobilized really isn't that bad.

Pretty cheap all things considered, and better than it used to be at repairing vehichles. Very good for support roles AND a firebase if you've got the points to spare. Also has the best Armour Save in the codex.

3. Ministorum Priests-Is this a joke, trying to make Imperial Guard good at close combat?

You have no idea how awesome these guys make combined squads of guard, especially if you've thrown in power weapons and maybe a commissar. Took out a Warboss and his Nob Retinue, steamrolled over a Carnifex and forced a draw with 30+ boyz and a Mek when I get the charge. It forces you to use the squad aggressively in lieu of FRFSRF, and the opponent rarely sees it coming.

4. Penal Legion Troopers-I can't see where they fit into an Imperial Guard army not to mention I had a guy use these on me and I promptly killed 30 of them in one turn. Personally I think their a cool unit, but useless.

Unpredictable, but definitely not meant to be fielded in great numbers. I think it was more of a nod to a Last Chancers themed army than anything else. They do have thier uses though.

5. Ogryns-Once again way to expensive for what they do though the multiple wounds does help a bit. Plus these guys are expensive models to buy unless you convert Ogres.

Pretty damn hard to kill, but I don't use them. A friend has to great effect though. Took out a Vindicator and half-strength Sternguard sqaud with just three.

6. Ratlings-Used prevalently prior to 5th edition now you don't see them at all which is funny because of the new sniper rifle rules.

I've seen them used, and they can be pretty damn annoying. Still not useless.

7. Rough Riders-Great first shock and awe unit can potentially wipe out a normal Terminator squad if given the charge but after that they are relegated to...well...doing absolutely nothing with their laspistols.

Again, cheap. And they come with those hunting lances this time. They are a sort of one use unit, unless you got Mogul Kamir. They can be useful as support.

8. Storm Troopers-One of my favorite units in the game and I used to use them all throughout 4th edition but now they are WAY to overpriced and you can't even give them 3 meltaguns like Vets, forget it.

I don't use them or see them used all that much. Shrug. Can't comment.

9. Leman Russ standard tank, Exterminator, and Vanquisher-No one uses these especially the standard tank, prior to 4th edition it used to be a great tank now its next to pointless when you have the Executioner and Demolisher.

Nothing wrong at all with the Standard tank. Executioner is nice and all, but it's damn expensive. Demolisher is a nice choice when you can afford to rely on your enemy being no further than 24" away at all times. Standard tank is still versatile, and Vanquisher is great is you take Pask. Kills armour dead-quick. I'm with you on the Punisher though, simply fluff-and-bubble.

10. Basalisk,Colossus, and Griffon-No one uses these tanks although once again prior to this edition the Basilisk was an awesome tank now with TLOS and the Medusa it just doesn't make sense anymore especially with AP3.

Steady there, the Basilisk is still a great cheap as chips champion. Haven't used the other two though.

11. Deathstrike-Very awesome unit wish it was used more and had more than one shot, but mostly an Alpha Strike weapon that becomes pointless after its fired.

How would it having more than one shot make sense? Anyway, it's not the actual damage cuased that you can really on (you can't) it's the immense fear that your opponent (especially those who haven't face on before) will have of it, meaning they'll expose themselves in order to bring it down.

12. Valkyrie-I've heard its good at anti-infantry yet EVERY Guard army I have fought ALWAYS uses the Vendetta never the Valkyrie.

I use a Vendetta.

I agree with 1, 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12
Penal Legions are situational, but are great for capping or contesting points.
Rats are better shots and cheaper than SM scouts, and have steath for freesies.
Don't dis the Rough Riders! Hit a termie squad with them, and they will easily kill three times their price. Munch Carnifexes too.
Storm Troopers are overpriced, and have their job done better by a troops choice, but still have their moments.
The standard tank is gold. Vanilla Gold. Cheap and good against everything (especially marines) what more can you ask for?
Exterminators are amazing command tanks. Weather that means Pask or Ar-Co command tank with tank hunters, it essenially throws out 4 TL MLs a turn, enough to ruin any light-medium vehicle's day. The Vaq is the same deal, but gets overshadowed by its less armoured cousin the medusa.
Basilisk is the 'nilla Russ of the arty catagory, better gun, cheaper, and less armoured. Love it. The Griffon is 75 points. Guess how many points of orks or guard it can kill? The colossus kills marines. It kills marines in cover. Like Banewolves.

OK, OK, you picked out the worst entries in the IG codex, some of whom are just bad, while the rest are simply overshadowed by their cousins. I have tryed to make a case for each of them, really I have, but I can not see when you would ever take a Primaris, for example other than a gimmiky psyker list.

sniperjolly wrote:
OK, OK, you picked out the worst entries in the IG codex, some of whom are just bad, while the rest are simply overshadowed by their cousins. I have tryed to make a case for each of them, really I have, but I can not see when you would ever take a Primaris, for example other than a gimmiky psyker list.

Or you could take a Sanctioned Psyker Squad. Probably better for points worth, but harder to keep alive.

I stand by my defense of Munistorium Preist though, infantry have the option to play aggressively. Beating Nids and Orks in close combat is ever so satisfying.

I use basilisks and regular russes. Way to project your lemming mentality on the rest of us.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I agree that penal legion is subpar and would add conscripts. The 1 point savings is not worth the weapons option loss, lack of grenades and stat loss- they should be 2-3 pts or have Next Wave built in since they essentially Grots with T3 and BS 2. Also dumb because a base unit is more expensive (but statistically less effective) than a base infantry squad. Both a shame as they are good concepts.

Ogryns would be salvageable if they could take a power weapon or fist on the Bonehead. Shame, too, because they can be very characterful.

Primaris are junk. Great, a glorified multilaser. Awesome.

Priests are good for power blobbing.

Techs are okay for repairing artillery in your backfield.

Ratlings are meh, rough riders are decent counter charge or for taking out a high AS unit worth more than their points.

Stormtroopers are badly overpriced (they are primarilly for AP3, but the gun has trouble wounding- lol) but their insertion rules and scoring make them a bit better than useless.

Valk is pretty pointless with vendettas.

The standard Russ you are flat out wrong on. It is a solid heavy tank that opponents must deal with due to the AP3 big blast. The gatling and autocannon variants not so much.

Deathstrike should have been an Apoc thing. Take the Manticore if you want something good.

Basilisk is ok also has *much* better range than Medusa. Colossus ignores cover saves, which is good. Griffon is cheap. Definitely wouldn't say any are useless.

Primaris Psyker would be ok if he had a Psychic hood but he does not. Better powers wouldn't hurt the psyker battle squad has better powers then him.

Ministorum Priests are actually pretty good in Power weapon blobs.

Tech Priests cost too much. Maybe if they cost less they might see play if they were cheap and you could could buy multiple and add one to each squad in a Chimera since they have 12 capacity and squads are typically 10. Mechanics see play in Warmachine.

Penal legion can be used to make cheap fodder or bubble wrap or just make valkyries/vendettas scoring.

Ogryn are not bad with a Lord Commissar or Yarrick to give them a power fist and better leadership to not run away but their high cost with no assault vehicles and huffing it being not very good because of vulnerability to Strength 10. These guys would not be so bad if they had power weapon and power fist options for the bone head or were slightly cheaper. They are tough but without a power weapon they get stuck in. For their price you might as well get allied Grey Knight Terminators.

Ratlings are not that useful because 5th is the mech edition and snipers not being that great. Making snipers able to pick out characters or something would make these more useful.

Rough Riders although great if they get the assault are really fragile to shooting and there is stiff competition for fast attack slots namely Vendettas.

Stormtoopers are ridiculously priced but you can get 5 with 2 meltas and deepstrike them to kill a vehicle. Something you can't do with vets you need to buy a Valkyrie or Chimera to get you there.

Leman Russ is still a solid choice. AV14 and the battle cannon is pretty good vs infantry who's ride got toasted or hordes. Strength 8 ordinance isn't terrible vs transports in a pinch but scattering off can be a problem.

Basilisks lost out to Manticores took over the role of the basilisks with D3 large templates and Strength 10 being better vs land raiders.

Collosus has a niche role of killing Marines. However it only gets one shot so a bad scatter can ruin your day and low strength makes it almost useless vs vehicles. Minimum range of 24 and inability to fire direct is also a problem. Leman Russ Executioner gets more shots has better armor and kills Marines and Terminators fairly well.

Griffons are actually pretty good in small points games where their cheap cost is great and there is bound to be infantry to shoot.

Medusa's actually aren't bad in planetstrike with bastion breaker shells to bust bastions.

Deathstrike actually is pretty fun in Apocalypse with the datasheet for the Vortex missle or even without it things tend to be so clustered that that potentially large blast is very nasty and the thing might get ignored because of focus on super heavies.

Sanguinis wrote:1. A unit that is to many points for its function. 2. No one seems to use the unit in their army. 3. The unit does not fit into any of the themed armies of the Codex.

This is a really crappy way to measure usefulness.

All units in the guard codex are useful at at least something. The only units that are really going to suffer are ones that serve very marginal purpose or have their primary role done better or cheaper elsewhere in the codex.

The only truly useless in the guard codex, as far as a more rigid definition of the word is concerned, would be techpriests.

Primaris psykers can be useful in low points games for a vehicle based army, but even then I would prefer a lord commissar. Their abilities are just underwhelming, and their defenses are laughable.

It's a pity, because Primaris Psykers are more powerful and skilled than the average Librarian.

Melissia wrote:Primaris psykers can be useful in low points games for a vehicle based army, but even then I would prefer a lord commissar. Their abilities are just underwhelming, and their defenses are laughable.

It's a pity, because Primaris Psykers are more powerful and skilled than the average Librarian.

What? where are you getting that from?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Primaris psykers can be useful in low points games for a vehicle based army, but even then I would prefer a lord commissar. Their abilities are just underwhelming, and their defenses are laughable.

It's a pity, because Primaris Psykers are more powerful and skilled than the average Librarian.

What? where are you getting that from?

The Dark Heresy and Deathwatch roleplaying games, which have in-depth information on the capabilities of both Primaris Psykers and Librarians.

Certainly moreso than anywhere else, given that it's a roleplaying game. Heck, it was Andy Hoare who wrote Ascension, which was the book that contained Primaris Psykers.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Primaris psykers can be useful in low points games for a vehicle based army, but even then I would prefer a lord commissar. Their abilities are just underwhelming, and their defenses are laughable.

It's a pity, because Primaris Psykers are more powerful and skilled than the average Librarian.

What? where are you getting that from?

The Dark Heresy and Deathwatch roleplaying games, which have in-depth information on the capabilities of both Primaris Psykers and Librarians.

Certainly moreso than anywhere else, given that it's a roleplaying game. Heck, it was Andy Hoare who wrote Ascension, which was the book that contained Primaris Psykers.

Haven't read Deathwatch (or even seen it anywhere). Are Librarians 40K abilities in there? Cuz those seem pretty strong....

Librarians are stronger than the average human psyker, (but then, deathwatch Librarians are already veterans). But in the end, Librarians don't have the ability to do fantastic stuff like stop time, which are special Ascended Psychic Powers which are available only to Primaris Psykers.

I imagine that the most powerful librarians are roughly equivalent to the most powerful primaris psykers. Humans can live a long time if they're given rejuvenation treatment.

Primaris are only useless when compared to the CCS (competition for HQ slots) or other armies psykers (many of which are dramatically underpriced). I think the PP does a decent job of providing firepower for a cheap price. That the CCS is one of the most point effecient units in the game makes it a benchwarmer, not useless.

Techpriests, Ogryn, and conscrpits are pretty generally useless. Even Ogryn aren't useless, they're simply dramatically overpriced for what they're capable of.

I could go through and rebut the rest, and maybe I will later, but the IG codex is actually one of the best in having tons of good options. Many of the listed units really only suffer in comparison to other units available.

Translation: The primaris psyker is useless when compared with anything equivalent to it.

Right, putting out an average of 6 S6 attacks (and putting down up to twelve when you're lucky) is actually useful against certain targets, like monstrous creatures.

This wouldn't be much to brag about on it's own, but that it's a HQ choice that you can attach to a squad, rather than needing to bring their own transports, means it is useful to toy-heavy lists, especially things like air-cav.

I mean, if you roll a 12 for the number of shots, he can stick his pointer finger out of a chimera's hatch and nearly kill a demon prince by himself with only average luck in a single attack. That doesn't sound useless to me.

Only comments i can make is fighting against ogryns with marines , they are a pain in the ass to get rid of and tie up units for at least a couple of turns which usually then leaves them out of position or under strength due to casualties

My rule of thumb as to weather a unit is effective - can it kill or tie down more points than it costs

I would define useless as there being extremely few situations where I'd want to pay for a given unit. How good the unit is relative to other options doesn't change the objective usefulness of the unit.

The primaris psyker is weak, compared to the CCS. It's not even that good when compared to other HQ choices around the game. But there are times when it's good: against high toughness models, in tank heavy list without a CCS, There are times I'd gladly pay 70pts for the little guy. Not many, but he's not terrible.

Sidebar: I actually took a PP in a 1500pt tournament that had, among other special rules, the requirment that each army bring two HQs with no duplication of any non-troops unit. As I played mech, the PP was better than a commissar lord for me.

Most of the units in the OP's list have some uses. Ratlings are good against MCs, Stormtroopers bring suicide melta for relatively cheap, etc.

The techpriest seems to have a hard time accomplishing anything, and ogryn need an extremely specific situation for them to shine (they need the charge against a non-S10 non dedicated assault unit).

my Guard list has 2 basilisks, 2 basic Russ tanks, and 1 exterminator in a 1500 game...

The OP seems to be conflating the concept of utility with that of efficiency. The LRBT has a use: killing marines. It's not horribly efficient at it, but there are still things it's good at.

The LRBT has a use: Killing everything that moves.

It's quite good at it. Really, only AV14 vehicles aren't vulnerable to an LRBT w/hull Lascannon (But mostly because sure, it CAN hit and penetrate them, but it probably won't with BS3). ANY infantry left out in the open is battle cannon fodder. Even terminators (cause enough wounds, and they're gonna fail some of their armor saves).

Sanguinis wrote:The other day I was skimming through the Imperial Guard Codex and something dawned on me, this army has some of the most useless units in the game. Now I'll be honest other armies in the game have useless units as well. Before I continue let me define a useless unit: A useless unit is either 1. A unit that is to many points for its function. 2. No one seems to use the unit in their army. 3. The unit does not fit into any of the themed armies of the Codex. For example Space Marines have Vanguard Veterans which are overpriced for what they do, Chaos have the Defiler which no one seems to use anymore, and Orkz have Meganobs which are just way to expensive similar to Vanguard Vets. So basically I'm gonna go down the list of units that I think are useless Imperial Guard units because to me it seems like Imperial Guard has the most of these. I am purely going from experience at my FLGS and on what I see and I think, if you have an opinion about my list PLEASE voice it I want to hear what you guys think because I would like to try some of these units if you guys can prove me wrong. Thank you.


4. Penal Legion Troopers-I can't see where they fit into an Imperial Guard army not to mention I had a guy use these on me and I promptly killed 30 of them in one turn. Personally I think their a cool unit, but useless.
6. Ratlings-Used prevalently prior to 5th edition now you don't see them at all which is funny because of the new sniper rifle rules.
7. Rough Riders-Great first shock and awe unit can potentially wipe out a normal Terminator squad if given the charge but after that they are relegated to...well...doing absolutely nothing with their laspistols.

9. Leman Russ standard tank, Exterminator, and Vanquisher-No one uses these especially the standard tank, prior to 4th edition it used to be a great tank now its next to pointless when you have the Executioner and Demolisher.
10. Basalisk,Colossus, and Griffon-No one uses these tanks although once again prior to this edition the Basilisk was an awesome tank now with TLOS and the Medusa it just doesn't make sense anymore especially with AP3..
12. Valkyrie-I've heard its good at anti-infantry yet EVERY Guard army I have fought ALWAYS uses the Vendetta never the Valkyrie.

Lulz. You're a little foolish Everything I left out, I agree with. However, what I left was what I strongly disagree with.

Penal Legion have numerous uses, like being your troops choice in a tank company, or filling up space with something actually fun to use. It's cheap. Have fun with it.

They're so cheap, there's really no reason not to use them. They've got 4 BS, which is worth more than they are. Throw them in some building or cover, and they can take down a lot of stuff.

They have their uses also. If not outclassed by the other good FA choices, I might consider them for certain things, like against tau or something.

OMG WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Everyone uses the standard russ, wtf are you talking about? The demolisher is worthless, IMO. That pie plate on the standard is wonderful. It kills marines. What more do you want? The Punisher is much worse than any of the things you listed.

wat? They're amazing if you're not using tanks. Have you [played an artillery list? They RAPE FACE

Sort of agree. They're 30 points cheaper, sooo.. Yeah. Less conversion work too.

You have no idea what you're talking about, kid. I'm willing to bet you just looked at the codex on some website and said; "hey, this is stupid! Why would I take a LRBT when the demolisher is like a vindicator? HURRR"

Basilisks and Russes roflstomp my marines, from across the board for the first one. Instant deathing the elite infantry of mankind from behind cover, shooting anything on the board with that range, with GREAT rules for indirect shooting now, how can you not want it? Seriously, and if the exterminator is the one with a Gauss-8 Minigun looking turret, those things SHRED orks, 'nids, and other swarm armies. w/ 3 heavy bolters, that's 29 str. 5 attacks. Eradicating a mob's waagh in one shooting phase.

Why everbody hating on the MP? He's great I tell you!

Anyone who says the standard LRBT is useless is a moron, hth.

Ratlings are awesome. They're wicked cheap and can get a 3+ cover save if I recall correctly. Sure they're not durable in close combat, but they're Guard so what do you expect?

Valkyries are far from useless, Vendettas are just underpriced for the tank hunting they can do.

Penal Legion aren't super competitive or anything, but they can really wreck house if their rolls are right. They're a really interesting unit and can pull off some cool stuff.

TL;DR: You don't know what you're talking about.

The LRBT isn't the best variant of the basic tank, it's far too generalist for anything but small games. It's old role as a marine squisher has diminished due to increased cover, increased mechanization, and the ability of squads to go to ground. That all said, it's still not a useless unit.

before I answer I would like to say that the OP has obviously not fought a lot of IG armies...so my comments will be more for his education...

1. Primaris Psyker-Takes up an HQ choice and all you get is some really fething bad Lightning Arc ability and Nightshroud which if your oppenent is smart he'll just ignore this bad unit and concentrate on the rest of your army.

THE IG ARMY DOES NOT NEED TO FILL UP THE 2ND HQ CHOICE, AS USUALLY 1 CCS IS ALL THAT'S NEEDED. THE PRIMARIS PSYKER IS NOT BAD AS A SOURCE OF VOLUME S6 FIRE, AS WELL AS A SOURCE OF LD 9 TO A UNIT.

2. Techpriest Enginseers-Way to many points that you could just add to another unit in your army not to mention that most Mech Guard armies have enough tanks that having a weapon destroyed or immobilized really isn't that bad.

THIS OPINION I AGREE WITH....

3. Ministorum Priests-Is this a joke, trying to make Imperial Guard good at close combat?

NOT A JOKE AT ALL, IT'S OBVIOUS YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ON THE RECEIVING END OF A POWER BLOB'S ATTACKS....

4. Penal Legion Troopers-I can't see where they fit into an Imperial Guard army not to mention I had a guy use these on me and I promptly killed 30 of them in one turn. Personally I think their a cool unit, but useless.

NOT USELESS, AND I THINK YOUR OPPONENT USED THEM POORLY. THEY ARE A SUPPORT COMPONENT WHO ARE ALSO GOOD FOR OBJECTIVE GRABS, VIA OUTFLANKING. I'VE USED THEM IN COMPETITIVE PLAY. NOT OUTSTANDING, BUT NOT USELESS EITHER.

5. Ogryns-Once again way to expensive for what they do though the multiple wounds does help a bit. Plus these guys are expensive models to buy unless you convert Ogres.

I HAVE USED OGRYNS SEVERAL TIMES. HAVEN'T LET ME DOWN YET. PEOPLE UNDERESTIMATE THEIR SHOOTING. THE KEY IS NOT TO OVERESTIMATE WHAT THEY DO. WHAT THEY DO VERY WELL IS TO FINISH OFF WEAKENED ENEMY ASSAULT UNITS, OR AT THE VERY LEAST HOLD UP ENEMY UNITS IN HTH.

6. Ratlings-Used prevalently prior to 5th edition now you don't see them at all which is funny because of the new sniper rifle rules.

I ALSO HAVE USED THEM. A BIT OF A MEH, BUT I BLAME MYSELF SINCE I USUALLY INFILTRATE THEM AGGRESSIVELY. STILL, A CHEAP SOURCE OF BS4 SNIPER FIRE FOR THE IG.

7. Rough Riders-Great first shock and awe unit can potentially wipe out a normal Terminator squad if given the charge but after that they are relegated to...well...doing absolutely nothing with their laspistols.

YOU FAIL TO CONSIDER THAT THEY HAVE KRAK GRENADES STANDARD. I HAVE USED RR A LOT, AND I USE THEM TO ALSO TANK HUNT. PICKING A STATIONARY OR COMBAT SPEED MOVING TANK IS A GOOD TARGET FOR THEIR GRENADES, AND I HAVE KILLED VINDICATORS, PREDATORS, AND EVEN ELDAR SKIMMERS WITH THEM.

8. Storm Troopers-One of my favorite units in the game and I used to use them all throughout 4th edition but now they are WAY to overpriced and you can't even give them 3 meltaguns like Vets, forget it.

HAVE USED THEM ONLY TWICE...NOT BAD AS A SOURCE OF ACCURATE DEEP STRIKING MELTAGUNS. BUT I DO AGREE THAT THEY AREN'T A FIRST CHOICE, BUT THEY ARE NOT USELESS.

9. Leman Russ standard tank, Exterminator, and Vanquisher-No one uses these especially the standard tank, prior to 4th edition it used to be a great tank now its next to pointless when you have the Executioner and Demolisher.

THIS STATEMENT REALLY MAKES IT OBVIOUS YOU DO NOT PLAY VERSUS A LOT OF IG FOLKS. THE STANDARD RUSS IS STILL THE OLD RELIABLE TANK, STILL USED BY A LOT OF IG PLAYERS. I PREFER IT OVER THE EXECUTIONER EVERY DAY. THE DEMOLISHER IS ALSO AN EXCELLENT TANK, BUT IT SUFFERS FROM RANGE ISSUES.

10. Basalisk,Colossus, and Griffon-No one uses these tanks although once again prior to this edition the Basilisk was an awesome tank now with TLOS and the Medusa it just doesn't make sense anymore especially with AP3.

AGAIN, YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. TAKE A LOOK AT DEDICATED IG THREADS AND YOU WILL SEE THAT THERE ARE PLAYERS WHO SWEAR BY THESE ARTILLERY TANKS. I PERSONALLY USE THE BASSIE A LOT, AS IT IS STILL A GREAT SOURCE OF LONG RANGE S9 AP3 INDIRECT FIRE, SOMETHING THE MEDUSA CANNOT DO.

11. Deathstrike-Very awesome unit wish it was used more and had more than one shot, but mostly an Alpha Strike weapon that becomes pointless after its fired.

HAVEN'T USED IT YET, BUT HEY IT SHOULD HAVE GREAT FUN VALUE DON;T YOU THINK?

12. Valkyrie-I've heard its good at anti-infantry yet EVERY Guard army I have fought ALWAYS uses the Vendetta never the Valkyrie.

THE VALKYRIE IS A BETTER TRANSPORT THAN THE VENDETTA, WHICH IS MORE OF A GUNSHIP. I PLAY 1 OF EACH, SINCE THE VALKYRIE'S BETTER TRANSPORT ABILITY MAY BE NEEDED IF THE PASSENGERS ARE MORE POWERFUL/VALUABLE. THAT BEING SAID IF I USE ONLY 1 SKIMMER THE VENDETTA IS INDEED THE FIRST CHOICE.

AND I AGREE THAT FOR THIS CODEX CONSCRIPTS ARE NOT AS GOOD A CHOICE AS IN THE PREVIOUS DEX, NOT WHEN YOU CAN GET BLOBS.

Brother SRM wrote:Anyone who says the standard LRBT is useless is a moron, hth.

Ratlings are awesome. They're wicked cheap and can get a 3+ cover save if I recall correctly. Sure they're not durable in close combat, but they're Guard so what do you expect?

Valkyries are far from useless, Vendettas are just underpriced for the tank hunting they can do.

Penal Legion aren't super competitive or anything, but they can really wreck house if their rolls are right. They're a really interesting unit and can pull off some cool stuff.

TL;DR: You don't know what you're talking about.

QFT. I still think OP just googled the codex and randomly picked out things he didn't like.

I just have to say i LOVE my Primaris psyker (Jeff) In my 500 point list he never fails to zap the hell out of things. And I always seem to have good luck with him. i think he does quite well.

@freddieyu1

ALL CAPS FTW.