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Polonius wrote:The LRBT isn't the best variant of the basic tank, it's far too generalist for anything but small games. It's old role as a marine squisher has diminished due to increased cover, increased mechanization, and the ability of squads to go to ground. That all said, it's still not a useless unit.

Melissia wrote:

Polonius wrote:it's far too generalist

You act like this is a bad thing.

ChrisWWII wrote:Being generalist is generally considered a good thing, because it'll have some use no matter who you come up against.

I agree with Polonius that, being a generalist, the plain LRBT isn't the best points for the investment as far as damage is concerned. Of course, if what you were looking for was a points-efficient application of firepower, no stripe of russ is going to get you what you're looking for.

As such, if the point of taking russes isn't the damage, but to throw around AV14 in a brutish manner, then the ideal russ will be the cheapest russ possible, that also has at least some reasonable degree of killing power. The plane jane LRBT does this job the best, making it (other than the demolisher), the only russ option I'd seriously consider taking.

That is, of course, if I were seriously considering spending extra points over artillery just for AV14 at all (which I'm not).

Well, given that the basic Leman Russ is only 25 points more than the Bassie, and is in fact cheaper than the Manticore, I'd personally feel it's a good points per upgrade to go from 12-10-10 to 14-13-10. It means that your vehicles won't insta-die or be glanced to hell if they step into the open for little.

I also view the LRBT as just being a good 'take all comers' unit. While yes, the Bassie and the Manticore dish out bigger pain per points, an elite army that has very few models on the table will be able to mitigate their effect simply by spreading out and avoiding the pie plates. On the other hand, the LR could be out their engaging with its heavy bolters (or lascannon and heavy bolters as the case may be) to its heart's content.

If the enemy has a lot of lascannon strength guns, then the LR can act as a nice distraction, something the Basilisk and Manticore could never do if they want to survive. Will the LR surive? Probably not, but it'll take a lot more shots from the enemy before finally succumbing. Shots that allow other parts of your force to close and engage the enemy.

Of course, the local meta game does play a big part. My local uses a lot of non-LOS blocking cover, so I've taken less in the artillery department simply because there's not enough to hide the damn things behind. As such, the LR's armor is probably worth a lot more points in my mind than it is in another player's.

Speaking as both an Ork and Sisters player as well as a fellow Guard player, I'd rather see artillery on the other end of hte field than a leman russ.

I can destroy artillery with ease.

I'm very bullish on the AV14. I'm just a die hard fan of the executioner, which I feel does the core job of the LRBT (anti-infantry) better, while adding in a very good anti-MC capacity at the loss of some anti-Armor abilities.

The Battle Cannon is just like the (IG) Missile Launcher: nobody can say it's bad, but I think most competitive IG players would rather have two specialized tools that are really good at the job than two generalists.