Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I hope that two new characters and a new battle tank suggest some real redevelopment of the army for the 9th codex and not just tacking on some new kits to sell. Am I wrong to hope for a revision of some Order Convictions, Sacred Rites, and Warlord Traits to make other combos more playable? Maybe some way to generate mortal wounds? Something to target characters?

The Palatine is in the GW army builder at 0 power and 0pts, clearly it’s now the most op unit in 40K!

 MacPhail wrote:
I hope that two new characters and a new battle tank suggest some real redevelopment of the army for the 9th codex and not just tacking on some new kits to sell. Am I wrong to hope for a revision of some Order Convictions, Sacred Rites, and Warlord Traits to make other combos more playable? Maybe some way to generate mortal wounds? Something to target characters?

I mean... we have a sorce of mortal wounds...

Lammia wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
I hope that two new characters and a new battle tank suggest some real redevelopment of the army for the 9th codex and not just tacking on some new kits to sell. Am I wrong to hope for a revision of some Order Convictions, Sacred Rites, and Warlord Traits to make other combos more playable? Maybe some way to generate mortal wounds? Something to target characters?

I mean... we have a sorce of mortal wounds...

We have a few ways to do one here or one there, mostly against psykers. Most 9th edition armies are cranking them out in the psychic phase when we're quiet, dealing d3 or more by multiple methods. And big models seem to be getting tougher to bring down as though MW are assumed. I could be way off, but that's my impression listening to competitive battle reports.

If I wanted to make Mortifiers are solid part of a list, are six a good purchase? We own plenty of Sisters, vehicles, etc... but only ten Repentia, so our next purchases stand to be more of them, six Mortifiers, or some combo of both.

Thoughts?

I think Mortifiers would be solid due to the number of shots.

With more non-SM armies around the corner (nids, craftworld eldar, harlies, IG, GSC the meta is going to shift away from "every unit must be anti-Primaris".

Even now with Drukhari raiders getting 5++ saves and being low T for a vehicle, plus wyches dying to a stiff breeze I think some anti infantry guns are good and with the meta being 3x5 Sisters squads that's not even bolters to being to make a wyche squad, even a kabalite squad quake too hard.

Storm Bolter Dominions I think will be a solid choice in the future. Sisters can take lots of anti-tank but I'd rather not use MM's to kill gaunts or wyches or eldar gaurdians.

MacPhail wrote:

Lammia wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
I hope that two new characters and a new battle tank suggest some real redevelopment of the army for the 9th codex and not just tacking on some new kits to sell. Am I wrong to hope for a revision of some Order Convictions, Sacred Rites, and Warlord Traits to make other combos more playable? Maybe some way to generate mortal wounds? Something to target characters?

I mean... we have a sorce of mortal wounds...

We have a few ways to do one here or one there, mostly against psykers. Most 9th edition armies are cranking them out in the psychic phase when we're quiet, dealing d3 or more by multiple methods. And big models seem to be getting tougher to bring down as though MW are assumed. I could be way off, but that's my impression listening to competitive battle reports.

I was mostly refering to Stern & Straight Clown...

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:If I wanted to make Mortifiers are solid part of a list, are six a good purchase? We own plenty of Sisters, vehicles, etc... but only ten Repentia, so our next purchases stand to be more of them, six Mortifiers, or some combo of both.

Thoughts?

Mortifiers. I think 10 Repentia is enough going foward now.

Looks like Exorcist was nerfed to T7. At least Exorcist and Triumph stats (attacks down to 10) are leaked on Reddit (the box datasheet scans).

 Therion wrote:
Looks like Exorcist was nerfed to T7. At least Exorcist and Triumph stats (attacks down to 10) are leaked on Reddit (the box datasheet scans).

For the Triumph, those missing 4 attacks are probably just the way the full data sheet handles the Marty's Sword.

And not only was the Exorcist dropped to T7, but it also lost a wound and is down -1 Str (lol). The Exorcist launcher also lost some AP, going from -3 to -2. Conflagration rockets are +1 damage now, though.

Given all these changes and more, the thread seems pretty hopeful that this new statline portends that it will shift in roles to artillery and be able to shoot out of LoS. At 195 points and the Castigator set to fill the MBT role, I will dare hope.

Sounds like time for a thread in News & Rumors. If only I could find those datasheets.

 alextroy wrote:
Sounds like time for a thread in News & Rumors. If only I could find those datasheets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/mlj4i3/exorcist_and_triumph_unitweapon_stats_leak/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Can grab the sheets from imgur there.

So the Exorcist is getting nerfed statwise. That's not so bad. If it becomes an artillery tank able to fire indirectly that will be good against the current pesky Drukhari and future armies with lots of T3, crap save models.

Being able to fire at Raiders and Venoms no matter how well hidden they are could mean a big scary unit is hoofing it on Turn 1 potentially if Sisters get first turn.

I hope either the Castigators and/or the Exorcists can be taken in a squadron like IG. Sisters are kind of spoiled in HS right now even though MM Sisters are the FOTM unit right now in Heavy.

Either way I'm getting the new tank. The more I see it the more it's growing on me looks wise.

I find the indirect rules very annoying to play against so mixed feelings about this.

I wonder if the range will stay the same.

I liked it as a heavy tank - although will be getting at least on Castigator as well - said I would get all SoB models and have done so far - alos I like the model!

jivardi wrote:
So the Exorcist is getting nerfed statwise. That's not so bad. If it becomes an artillery tank able to fire indirectly that will be good against the current pesky Drukhari and future armies with lots of T3, crap save models.

Rather unfortunate that the sisters tank hunter has lost all that armour penetration. The downside of getting new units I guess, got to make the castigator look good.

A.T. wrote:

jivardi wrote:
So the Exorcist is getting nerfed statwise. That's not so bad. If it becomes an artillery tank able to fire indirectly that will be good against the current pesky Drukhari and future armies with lots of T3, crap save models.

Rather unfortunate that the sisters tank hunter has lost all that armour penetration. The downside of getting new units I guess, got to make the castigator look good.

Yeah, I'm not very thrilled about this change. I already thought AP-3 was sometimes a bit meh, but AP-2 is really insufficient for anti-tank. I don't fancy the new tank at all and want my organs on the battlefield. Hopefully they'll get some points reductions to compensate for the nerfed profiles. That'd allow me to take (multi) meltas to get some high AP weaponry as well in a 2000 points army.

With the changes to MM's the most competitive lists contain, it seems, 2x5 Ret's with MM's. Hardly seeing any Exorcist spam lists anymore in 9th.

And it's not as if GW is shoehorned into T7 Exorcist. FAQ's/Errata's exist for a reason folks. At one point the Keeper of Secrets had 12 wounds. One day it had 16 without need of a new codex.

Guess we'll know more when more is leaked or when Sister's 9th codex drops.

It seems the Exorcist may be taking on a new role, especially with a new durable infantry melta option and a true MBT on the way.

I've opened a thread in News & Rumors so that we can not clog up a tactics thread on news and rumors

jivardi wrote:
With the changes to MM's the most competitive lists contain, it seems, 2x5 Ret's with MM's. Hardly seeing any Exorcist spam lists anymore in 9th.

And it's not as if GW is shoehorned into T7 Exorcist. FAQ's/Errata's exist for a reason folks. At one point the Keeper of Secrets had 12 wounds. One day it had 16 without need of a new codex.

Guess we'll know more when more is leaked or when Sister's 9th codex drops.

Yea right. GW first drops T to 7 and then just faq's it back? Nope.

KoS got 16 wounds because it got new model and for GW bigger=more wounds. Expecting new exorcist model any time soon after codex release?

tneva82 wrote:

jivardi wrote:
With the changes to MM's the most competitive lists contain, it seems, 2x5 Ret's with MM's. Hardly seeing any Exorcist spam lists anymore in 9th.

And it's not as if GW is shoehorned into T7 Exorcist. FAQ's/Errata's exist for a reason folks. At one point the Keeper of Secrets had 12 wounds. One day it had 16 without need of a new codex.

Guess we'll know more when more is leaked or when Sister's 9th codex drops.

Yea right. GW first drops T to 7 and then just faq's it back? Nope.

KoS got 16 wounds because it got new model and for GW bigger=more wounds. Expecting new exorcist model any time soon after codex release?

Snark and rudeness aside, I agree. It is not likely that they would fix the imperial chassis outlier just to FAQ it in again.

At T7 with 11W, and likely losing aura access, this tank at 195 will continue to be rare...but add indirect fire and it starts to look like an option for utility in a saturated HS slot.

Unfortunately we can't really talk tactics if it relies on wild speculation, so I suppose there's not much more that can be said.

Haven't been running Exo's since the new MM rules hit the Immo. Conflag is now 3d6 2D or is that extra damage for the AT variant?

 dracpanzer wrote:
Haven't been running Exo's since the new MM rules hit the Immo. Conflag is now 3d6 2D or is that extra damage for the AT variant?

The pictures don't line up with the relevant weapon profile, but that doesn't mean much given how incorrect these data sheets have been by and large. The extra point of damage is to the Conflag, whereas the AT variant lost a point of AP.

Hello, I didn't play 9th ed since september, before the update of imperial weaponry and the recent big faq.

I will play this sunday for the first time since then against drukhari (2000pts).

Following some reads on the new codex, I understand that dark eldars have now a vicious way to deal heavy MW with hellions, have low toughness vehicules that have a ++ save, have a lot of inv++ and even FNP+++ on most of their units.

So, my guess is to play a list revolving around a high number of hits, both shots and close combat. I was thinking of maybe taking an ebon chalice detachment to avoid being wiped by MW. I don't know if it is worth to take Valorous Heart order detachment : do the dark eldars have a lot of AP-1/AP-2 attacks?

The thing I am quite sure that should be good picks :

- Mortifiers with heavy bolters and flails
- Three exorcists, two with rockets and one with S8 AP-3 rockets
- Retributors : one squad with heavy flamers embarking in a twin heavy flamers immolator + one squad with heavy bolters
- Ephrael Stern and her filthy xenos that has a lot of attacks
- Maybe an inquisitor?? but wich one?
- Storm bolters everywhere, everytime I can

The things that I am pretty sure I shouldn't bring :
- Multi-melta retributors, I don't how their high AP and Damage output could be usefull against such weak vehicules that have invu save moreover!
- I am verry reluctant to play saint Celestine if they can deal her MW and the fact that germinae and celestine rest on high AP blades that aren't revelent against dark eldars that either have low regular saves or ++ saves.
- Zephyrim, for the same reason than Celestine's ones

The things that I don't know what to think about :
- Repentias. I have never ever played them. Sure, they can deal a big number of attacks but aren't they overpowered in terms of strength against those low toughness xenos?
- Triumph of saint Katherine, same as above, I don't know how to play it well so never played it.
- I would have love to bring some arco-flagellants but unfortunately, it's the only thing I don't own in the whole army...
- If I take an OOML detachment, I think it could be sweet to take judith and her twin flamers.
- Dominions with flamers or storm bolters?
- Finaly, I don't know what equipment to pick for my canonesses. Frankly, I feel that it might be a waste to equip them with fancy blades or such things.

Thanks for reading. If you have any advices, guesses or thoughts, I would be glad to hear it.

Splinter Cannons are AP1. Probably at least 1 or 2 more weapons that are at least AP1.

Wyches and Incubi don't care about VH's AP negation.

Cult of Strife is just mean. Lots of good strats.

Mortifiers will do more against Drukhari than MM Retributors will.

I'd tool the Cannoness up for support. She's going to get absolutely owned in melee against a Succubus or Djinn-bladed Archon. Drazar is the hot FOTM character and he will delete a Cannoness even worst than a Succubus will.

Without knowing what exactly is in the Drukhari list it's hard to know what's good and what's not. It's going to be a hard fight regardless of what your opponent brings. The Drukhari has really good internal balance and so as of right now everything in the codex can be made to work.

You won't win the speed game. Take Secondaries that don't involve getting too close. Bring It Down is good (Raider/Venom spam is the best way to play Drukhari); Engage On All Fronts is an easy one to get so long as you have some mobility (rhino's, immo's, mortifiers, seraphim); Raise The Banners is also an easy one.

Like every army, the Drukhari are an army with lots of variability available to them. Depending upon what your opponent brings, many of the things you mentioned about them may or may not be true. To clear up a few things:

Assuming a pure Drukhari Army, the whole army will have a 6++ which will become 5++ in Turn 4 (3 for Cabal of the Black Heart units)

Only Coven units have FNP. These are also the toughest units in the codex.

Their vehicles are light in defense stats, but also have invulnerable saves. The high damage of a Melta-weapon combined with Faith will help bring them down since there are still wounds to get through.

They have a wide variety of AP from 0 to -4 throughout the army on both ranged and close combat weapons

The Hellion/Reaver Stratagem gives 1 MW on a 5+ (4+ vs Infantry) per model in the attacking unit

With this all said, I suggest you worry less about everything an unknown army can do depending upon which units they decide to bring and concentrate on bringing a coherent army to fight with. Get them to fight your battle, rather than try and anticipate theirs.

Just got a fairly casual game in with my Sisters vs. my buddy's Ad Mech. 2000 points and we played the Scorched Earth mission from the BRB.

My list:
His list:

For secondaries, I picked Engage on All Fronts, Deploy Scramblers, and the mission secondary (Raze). He picked Assassinate, Raze, and I can't remember his third one. I got first turn, and put the Death Cult Assassins and Seraphim in reserves. I chose the Divine Guidance Sacred Rite.

On turn 1, I rolled my start-of-round Miracle Die and the extra one from Beacon of Faith and they both came up 6's. I fired the Retributors and Exorcist at the Knight, bringing it down to 3 wounds but failing to finish it. My other shooting killed one Breacher and wounded another, but most of my stuff was either out of range or out of LOS. I forgot to deploy a scrambler on this turn . My opponent's shooting killed 4 of the 5 Dominions and brought one of the Rhinos down to 1 wound and the other down to 7 wounds (lucky Valorous Heart FNP saves plus a Miracle Dice). The Exorcist was reduced to 6 wounds as well. On turn 2, the Repentia disembarked from the critically wounded Rhino, along with the Missionary. The Inquisitor and Arco-Flagellants got out of the other one. I brought in the Death Cult Assassins on one side in the middle of the board and had them deploy a scrambler. The Inquisitor failed to cast Warding Incantation on the Arcos, and then rolled double 6's on Smite, taking 2 wounds from Perils and only managing a 2 for wounds inflicted on the Kastelans. My shooting finished off the big Knight and one of the Armigers, and reduced the other Armiger to 4 wounds and killed another Breacher. I then charged into the Kastelans with the Arcos (who ate some nasty flamer overwatch) and the Repentia, but only managed to kill one Robot and reduce another to 2 wounds. The robots swung back at the Repentia and killed four (bad hit rolls and some lucky saves on my part saved them all from dying). On my opponent's turn, he finished off the Repentia, killed all but one of the Retributors, took the last wound off of the one Rhino and charged his wounded Armiger into my Celestians who had already been reduced to four models from shooting (I decided not to Overwatch as I was low on CP). He failed to kill any of them and the Armiger went down in melee over the course of two fight phases. On turn 3 I killed a bunch of Kataphrons, finished the aforementioned Armiger, and saw the rest of my Arcos die to the Robots. I also nearly killed a Tech-Priest with the DCA, but they died to him in melee. My Seraphim had dropped down and planted their scrambler in my opponent's deployment zone in my movement phase. My opponent killed the Missionary, the rest of the Celestians, and brought the Exorcist down to 1 wound (Valorous Heart saves FTW!). At this point I was well ahead on secondary points, and turn 4 was mostly mopping up for me. We called the game after the top of turn 4, as my opponent was well behind and had only one squad of Breachers, a Dominus (who was in combat with Celestine), one Robot, and the Datasmith left.

My takeaways from the game:
-Exorcists are underrated, especially as Valorous Heart. They are more durable than some other tanks (although that is about to change sadly ), and they have great firepower.
-Overall, Bloody Rose is a better all-around Order than Valorous Heart. Having even your basic mooks be decently nasty in close combat is very nice.
-Seraphim are probably a waste of time without taking any of their special pistols. We have cheaper units for the "action slaves" role, and Zephyrim are far better in melee.
-Repentia are very bad in any order that isn't Bloody Rose. They really want access to Tear Them Down, and if they get the extra attack on the charge from being Bloody Rose, they don't need a priest to babysit them.
-Arco-Flagellants are very good at taking out a specific target type (hordes of gribblies like Ork Boyz, Termagants, etc.) and not very good vs. anything else.
-An Inquisitor may be a decent inclusion in a Sisters list, but further testing is required as I failed like 4 of the 6 psychic powers I attempted to cast.
-Celestians are great with their stratagem, especially near a Canoness.
-The Dialogus is a cool model, but probably never worth taking.

Thanks for your advices, it's precious for me. I am currently building my list and want to add an ordo xenos inquisitor for cp farming. But I am not sure how much CP can be refunded with Esoteric Lore warlord trait during a battle round. Could someone enlight me on this please? I remember that in 8th ed, stratagem that allowed to gain CP were limited per turn or battle round.

Is it still the case in 9th ed?

 Crimson wrote:
I'm reiterating some of my questions from another thread here:

So what are people's thoughts on equipping the Superiors in general? They can have a melee weapon addition to their bolter and pistol (and as bolters are free you always want one.) All of these can also be traded for better weapons. A Power Maul actually seems pretty damn solid with the Bloody Rose rules. This is nice, though also means there is no reason to ever take a power sword, which seems a bit of a shame.

Also, what's the current ruling on trading items you have gained via trading? You can do that right? Because the Superior can trade their bolter for a bolt pistol and bolt pistols can be traded for better pistols. So this would allow for example dual wielding plasma pistols... Not necessarily super effective, but would look cool.

I'm always on the fence about this... I have been play sisters for over 20 years and I hate SMU sister units. That being said I feel 5 sisters are fodder and can be shot off any objective in 1 turn with minimal effort. So I like making larger units, with the move to 9th that kind of messed with the larger units the way coherence works now. My latest GT list has 6 man squads with the squads loaded out, but im putting them in Immolators also so the weaponry is there for utility if they get dumped early I can back field them on objectives and still help by sniping from the back. You have to build the unit to do something.... My forward Troop squads I equip to be able to Trinity if I have to ( that is ussally MM,MG,CF loadout) Where Back feild troops would be just a Heavy bolter or MM maybe toss in a couple stormbolters if you have some extra points laying around. I really miss being able to give my Sups Storm bolters...

 ierp wrote:
Thanks for your advices, it's precious for me. I am currently building my list and want to add an ordo xenos inquisitor for cp farming. But I am not sure how much CP can be refunded with Esoteric Lore warlord trait during a battle round. Could someone enlight me on this please? I remember that in 8th ed, stratagem that allowed to gain CP were limited per turn or battle round.

Is it still the case in 9th ed?

Yes. See the Battle Forged Rules on pages 244-245 of the main rulebook. There are a few exceptions, but you are limited to gaining 1 CP per battle round from rules, excluding Stratagems used during a phase (See main rulebook FAQ page 6).

Thanks Alextroy. Here is my roaster for tomorrow :

Bataillon Valorous Heart :
- Canoness
- Canoness
- 5 dominion > 4 Storm Bolters
- 6 dominions > 5 Storm Bolters
- 3 squad of 5 vanilla sisters
- 5 retributors with heavy bolters
- 5 retributors with heavy flamers
- 5 retributors with multi melta
- 5 seraphim with 2x2 little melta
- immolator with twin heavy flamers
- hospitaler and imagifer

Spearhead Ebon Chalice:
- Canoness
- 3 exorcists (one with conflagration rockets)
- 2x2 mortifiers with flails and heavy bolters

I will tell you tomorow how it has went for me, and will be posting pictures on the dedicated thread of the forum.