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I've started building a 2000 point BA army for a tounry next march and I'm trying to decide what direction I want to take the army list. I want assault marines in Las/Plas razorbacks to form the back bone of the army but can't decide what the best way to round out the army is.

I've heard a lot of good things about av13 spam lists but everyone seems to agree that it is both boring to play with and against. Anyone have any first hand experience with the list?

Also somewhat interested in the "immolator spam" type list I saw over at YTTH. Seemed like a pretty interesting list to play.

Any feedback on certain list types or list suggestions would be great!

AV 13 spam works extremely well with an advancing army. Because BA has fast vehicles you will be able to choke him or severely limit his movement.

Ive been experimenting on the very same concept, the back bone of my army consists of

-Mephiston
-3 Baal predators with no sponsons.
-3 Predators, Lascannon sponsons, Autocannon
-10 man Jumppack Assault marines.
-3 Furioso Dreads, I run all of them as Libbies, gave them wings and Fear of darkness

If you would notice, most of them move 12" most of the time. Id line them tanks up in a way that the assault marines and mephiston are obscured completely. Another tactic I do is to immediately tie up melta threats with my ASMs.

The list works really great so far, the only time I'd lose with them is if the opponents gets a few lucky shots on my tanks and kills them.

-Mephiston
-3 Baal predators with no sponsons.
-3 Predators, Lascannon sponsons, Autocannon
-10 man Jumppack Assault marines.
-3 Furioso Dreads, I run all of them as Libbies, gave them wings and Fear of darkness

That's an interesting concept I was also persueing.
A corresponding (older) thread is out there at this board.
Running the Dreads as Libbies is too expensive for my liking.

wuestenfux wrote:

-Mephiston
-3 Baal predators with no sponsons.
-3 Predators, Lascannon sponsons, Autocannon
-10 man Jumppack Assault marines.
-3 Furioso Dreads, I run all of them as Libbies, gave them wings and Fear of darkness

That's an interesting concept I was also persueing.
A corresponding (older) thread is out there at this board.
Running the Dreads as Libbies is too expensive for my liking.

If you dont like Furiosos, or libbies for that matter, You can always put in some sanguinary priests. But you effectively lose additional AV13 threats. Then again, regular furiosos are good, its just that I prefer them to move as fast as my Baals, thus I gave them wings.

Yuber wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

-Mephiston
-3 Baal predators with no sponsons.
-3 Predators, Lascannon sponsons, Autocannon
-10 man Jumppack Assault marines.
-3 Furioso Dreads, I run all of them as Libbies, gave them wings and Fear of darkness

That's an interesting concept I was also persueing.
A corresponding (older) thread is out there at this board.
Running the Dreads as Libbies is too expensive for my liking.

If you dont like Furiosos, or libbies for that matter, You can always put in some sanguinary priests. But you effectively lose additional AV13 threats. Then again, regular furiosos are good, its just that I prefer them to move as fast as my Baals, thus I gave them wings.

I'd consider one or two Furioso Libbys with shield but not three.
Two should be enough to grant a cover save to most of the army.

The basic question in the said thread was the troop choice.
Razorback or Rhino units, or Assault Marines with jump packs.

wuestenfux wrote:

The basic question in the said thread was the troop choice.
Razorback or Rhino units, or Assault Marines with jump packs.

I prefer assault marines in razorbacks, I think it gives you more flexability however I think going that route the army loses its close combat teeth which should form the basis of a BA army.

las/plas Razors with Baal Pred support is nice, throw in a few normal Predators too, though I prefer Devs with Razorbacks also..

I have an AV13 spam BA army (run as blood ravens) and it works well. I don't have much assault, as I run it with Razorback spam as well. In an 1850 I've got

3 Baal's (Assault/HB)
3 Pred (AC/LC)
3 Razorbacks (1 lC, 2 AC) with 3 6 man squads (melta/PF)
Librarian with TH termies.

It's a bit light on scoring units is the biggest weakness.

3 Baal's (Assault/HB)
3 Pred (AC/LC)
3 Razorbacks (1 lC, 2 AC) with 3 6 man squads (melta/PF)
Librarian with TH termies.

Looks quite interesting. How many pts is this?

I'd drop the TH Termies and take a Honor Guard.

spireland wrote:I have an AV13 spam BA army (run as blood ravens) and it works well. I don't have much assault, as I run it with Razorback spam as well. In an 1850 I've got

3 Baal's (Assault/HB)
3 Pred (AC/LC)
3 Razorbacks (1 lC, 2 AC) with 3 6 man squads (melta/PF)
Librarian with TH termies.

It's a bit light on scoring units is the biggest weakness.

Hmm. The idea of having an AV13 spam is to deny your opponent's army proper targets for their arsenal of long range anti tank weaponry (ML, AC and LC). Bringing some razorbacks give them targets, its even worse with razorbacks, who can only carry 6 body troops. Thats why I use 2x 10-man Jumppack assault marines. You can always hide them behind the predators for total LOS blocking. The interesting thing about this army is that its so intimidating, it pushes your opponents to make desperate maneuvers and mistakes.

Imagine 7-9 vehicles with AV 13, moving 12" every turn trying to get in your face, with mephiston hiding behind them, which you cant shoot. Pretty much explains how terrifying this list is.

Yuber wrote:

spireland wrote:I have an AV13 spam BA army (run as blood ravens) and it works well. I don't have much assault, as I run it with Razorback spam as well. In an 1850 I've got

3 Baal's (Assault/HB)
3 Pred (AC/LC)
3 Razorbacks (1 lC, 2 AC) with 3 6 man squads (melta/PF)
Librarian with TH termies.

It's a bit light on scoring units is the biggest weakness.

Hmm. The idea of having an AV13 spam is to deny your opponent's army proper targets for their arsenal of long range anti tank weaponry (ML, AC and LC). Bringing some razorbacks give them targets, its even worse with razorbacks, who can only carry 6 body troops. Thats why I use 2x 10-man Jumppack assault marines. You can always hide them behind the predators for total LOS blocking. The interesting thing about this army is that its so intimidating, it pushes your opponents to make desperate maneuvers and mistakes.

Imagine 7-9 vehicles with AV 13, moving 12" every turn trying to get in your face, with mephiston hiding behind them, which you cant shoot. Pretty much explains how terrifying this list is.

Yuber, taking jump packers as troops sounds interesting, but they are rather vulnerable to pie plates, say from IG.
On the other hand, Razorbacks kept behind the AV 13 wall could benefit from 3+ cover saves if correctly placed.

I used two T/L Lascannon Razorbacks in my Alpha list for 'Ard Boyz this year. It worked well in support of the AV 13 vehicles I had.

wuestenfux wrote:

Yuber wrote:

spireland wrote:I have an AV13 spam BA army (run as blood ravens) and it works well. I don't have much assault, as I run it with Razorback spam as well. In an 1850 I've got

3 Baal's (Assault/HB)
3 Pred (AC/LC)
3 Razorbacks (1 lC, 2 AC) with 3 6 man squads (melta/PF)
Librarian with TH termies.

It's a bit light on scoring units is the biggest weakness.

Hmm. The idea of having an AV13 spam is to deny your opponent's army proper targets for their arsenal of long range anti tank weaponry (ML, AC and LC). Bringing some razorbacks give them targets, its even worse with razorbacks, who can only carry 6 body troops. Thats why I use 2x 10-man Jumppack assault marines. You can always hide them behind the predators for total LOS blocking. The interesting thing about this army is that its so intimidating, it pushes your opponents to make desperate maneuvers and mistakes.

Imagine 7-9 vehicles with AV 13, moving 12" every turn trying to get in your face, with mephiston hiding behind them, which you cant shoot. Pretty much explains how terrifying this list is.

Yuber, taking jump packers as troops sounds interesting, but they are rather vulnerable to pie plates, say from IG.
On the other hand, Razorbacks kept behind the AV 13 wall could benefit from 3+ cover saves if correctly placed.

Yes they are. In which in this scenario I simply put them in reserve then deepstirke near the tanks putting the pie plates in the 1st place. Then i blast them with meltas.

Here is the link to a corresponding thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/310399.page

Like every single build in 40k, there will be flaws, and generally these are brought about by weapon choice.

AV13 spam is pretty nasty and does alot of damage to large monsters / other armour, and does just aswell against 2+ saves.

However, there are some armies out there that will mess it up.
All the las etc has no real use when facing 180 boyz or anything else along the same lines.
You simply killing 20 or so a turn, which doesent really cut it.


I would suggest you take vindi's to help the problem, and kit out some razors for anti-infantry.


Other armies though just get tabled if they havent got much anti-tank.

Also, take into account that some armies use DS alot, so you need to be on the move as much as possible, while still getting shots off quickly.


I mainly play nids and daemons.
Daemons would struggle badly against it, mainly due to lack of tank hutning and low numbers.

Nids however, would do pretty well since i tend to spam TMC's and cheap gants, meaning ive got the numbers there along with anti-tank.

I avoid the flamestorm cannons simply because the Baal pred has 11 side armor. And you cant afford to carelessly lose them to side shots.

Vidicators may work, but I prefer the long range fire support my preds offer. The first few turns are critical to getting where your tanks need to be, and the difference of making it or not is shaking a certain tank or if lucky, destroying it.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Like every single build in 40k, there will be flaws, and generally these are brought about by weapon choice.

AV13 spam is pretty nasty and does alot of damage to large monsters / other armour, and does just aswell against 2+ saves.

However, there are some armies out there that will mess it up.
All the las etc has no real use when facing 180 boyz or anything else along the same lines.
You simply killing 20 or so a turn, which doesent really cut it.


I would suggest you take vindi's to help the problem, and kit out some razors for anti-infantry.


Other armies though just get tabled if they havent got much anti-tank.

Also, take into account that some armies use DS alot, so you need to be on the move as much as possible, while still getting shots off quickly.


I mainly play nids and daemons.
Daemons would struggle badly against it, mainly due to lack of tank hutning and low numbers.

Nids however, would do pretty well since i tend to spam TMC's and cheap gants, meaning ive got the numbers there along with anti-tank.

The biggest problem I have with my 1850 13AV spam list is bike armies. They get to me way too fast, and usually melta me to death.

As an earlier poster pointed out, with only 3 six man squads in razorbacks I do tend to have a tough time taking objectives, but I like to keep to the squads together to support each other. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It is fun when you opponent figures out you have that much armour in a marine list, and its fast!

The biggest problem I have with my 1850 13AV spam list is bike armies. They get to me way too fast, and usually melta me to death.

Bike lists are not seen very often in competitive environments.
I'd keep the army together and shooting the Bikes while they advance.
Shield should help to keep the tanks alive.
You could try an Assault squad with jump packs intercepting the Bikers.

wuestenfux wrote:

The biggest problem I have with my 1850 13AV spam list is bike armies. They get to me way too fast, and usually melta me to death.

Bike lists are not seen very often in competitive environments.
I'd keep the army together and shooting the Bikes while they advance.
Shield should help to keep the tanks alive.
You could try an Assault squad with jump packs intercepting the Bikers.

I've modified the list down a bit,and I'm playing with Assault Squads, they are very effective ( especially with the S. Priests).

spireland wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

The biggest problem I have with my 1850 13AV spam list is bike armies. They get to me way too fast, and usually melta me to death.

Bike lists are not seen very often in competitive environments.
I'd keep the army together and shooting the Bikes while they advance.
Shield should help to keep the tanks alive.
You could try an Assault squad with jump packs intercepting the Bikers.

I've modified the list down a bit,and I'm playing with Assault Squads, they are very effective ( especially with the S. Priests).

When your entire army is moving forward. You need 10 body squads.

I have run into real problems with 6 man squads, its amazing how much better they are at 10. Toss a priest in the mix and they are way more brutal.

spireland wrote:I have run into real problems with 6 man squads, its amazing how much better they are at 10. Toss a priest in the mix and they are way more brutal.

Indeed, Priests are only useful for large units.
Small units will get wiped out no matter if there is a Priest around or not.