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after painting a vast majority of my space marines to blood raven colours i realized i want to make my own chapter (im sick of re-painting the same men) so i came to the idear that it is the fifth company (who it clearly states disappears into the warp) however i had an idear that they just went rouge and that they took over a imperial settlement and were never heard of again


my question is can i do that? (i know that fluff can annoy a whole load of peps)

According to the video games(dow 2 chaos rising), the chapter master has gone nuts (over to chaos) causing a civil war in the chapter.

I could see a rogue blood raven company fitting quite well into the current fluff.

You may want to read up on the video games to get the details.

yeah sure!

@ Ma55ter_fett
i know about dow (i have them all )
however i am reffering to the 5th company who went missing due 2 there corrupt captin (which after that event made the blood ravens make a shiny temple thing to find there brothers souls in linathy of fury)

The other thing is that they build a (miniture) fortress monestary 4 them selves and also trains some scouts.

IMO, all this DOW fluff is nothing but

Why do you say that? (besides i want to get away from that fluff with my renegade marines)

Probably because all of the Video Games are

A: poorly written (SINDRIII!)

B: Either based on a C.S.Goto Novel or the other way around. Dunno what came first.

I find the DoW fluff to be far superior to almost all of the Black Library fluff, ignoring Soulstorm. It's better written and is generally more interesting than almost every other single piece of Space Marine fluff to date. DoW2's campaign and its expansion are the only pieces of fluff that have actually gotten me to like specific Space Marines.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Either based on a C.S.Goto Novel

No, also no, also no, also no.

There is nothing well written about a Chaos Lord of the Chaos Chapter everyone thinks is the "SUPA C-KRET HELP THE EMPRA GUYZ" Being nothing more than a dim-witted "BLOOD 4 THE BLOOD GAWD!" template that was copied for every Dawn of War except Dark Crusade(my Comp can't play DOW2 so I can't speak for that one). The only Good Chaos Lord was Eliphas, because he was the only one that seemed evil without a Gore Fetish rivaling the likes of any Dark Eldar. HE was also the only one Not in the Alpha Legion( Word Bearers and I think Black Legion in DoW2's Expansion. Like I said, Comp can't play them, so I don't know much about the DoW2 games)

And yet, it's still better than most Black Library fluff.

I don't defend C.S.Goto material, but then, C.S.Goto's writings aren't canon to Dawn of War.

just to get this clear, I am not mad. It may be seen that way. Not saying anyone has Pmed me or anything, just I could see were someone could think of it that way and I don't feel like editing it.

Anyways.

A good amount of the 40K BL books are written about Space Marines, and just in general, Space marines do not make good Stories outside of battle. A Space Marine should not go off into a Moral dilemma in every book. A Space Marine is a Tool. You can't teach a Hammer to Love Nails(yes I know I stole this from the Venture Brothers). Now Guard and Inquisition books are good, because it's involving normal humans (for the most part). Moral dilemmas pop up with Normal Humans.

What really irks me though about the DoW games (beside the main Space Marine Character in the first one feeling bad about destroying a planet, Once again, hammer cannot love nails) is..well just what I posted before. There is more to Chaos that just Off the wall "DO you hear the Voice too!?" Characters. Sindri was a good Character, Eliphas was a Good Character. Both were just Evil at all costs. Both seemed very intelligent and acted like they were fit to lead (or manipulate) people to a goal. Bale, Carron, and the guy from Winter Assault whose name escapes me at the moment were Khorne Berzerkers in Alpha Legion Colors. "Dead Sky, Black Sun" had great Chaos Lords( well Warsmiths, but it's Iron Warriors we are talking about, same thing). Not all that is Chaos has to worship Khorne.

End of Speech.

To be fair, Relic use Khorne a lot because it's so stright forward. They want to kill things. You are the good guys, you want to stop the bad guy from killing things.

While we, as 40k players, would love something a bit more subtle, Dawn of War is mainly, at its heart, a sci fi RTS. It also has a pretty big budget and needs to make money. It needs to appeal to a wider audience. Thus, they need to go the straight forward bad guy approach.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:just to get this clear, I am not mad. It may be seen that way. Not saying anyone has Pmed me or anything, just I could see were someone could think of it that way and I don't feel like editing it.

Anyways.

A good amount of the 40K BL books are written about Space Marines, and just in general, Space marines do not make good Stories outside of battle. A Space Marine should not go off into a Moral dilemma in every book. A Space Marine is a Tool. You can't teach a Hammer to Love Nails(yes I know I stole this from the Venture Brothers). Now Guard and Inquisition books are good, because it's involving normal humans (for the most part). Moral dilemmas pop up with Normal Humans.

What really irks me though about the DoW games (beside the main Space Marine Character in the first one feeling bad about destroying a planet, Once again, hammer cannot love nails) is..well just what I posted before. There is more to Chaos that just Off the wall "DO you hear the Voice too!?" Characters. Sindri was a good Character, Eliphas was a Good Character. Both were just Evil at all costs. Both seemed very intelligent and acted like they were fit to lead (or manipulate) people to a goal. Bale, Carron, and the guy from Winter Assault whose name escapes me at the moment were Khorne Berzerkers in Alpha Legion Colors. "Dead Sky, Black Sun" had great Chaos Lords( well Warsmiths, but it's Iron Warriors we are talking about, same thing). Not all that is Chaos has to worship Khorne.

End of Speech.

Just saying Gabrial Angelos is crazy (plus that was his home world) and marines still have feelings, it gives them something 2 fight 4.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote: Just saying Gabrial Angelos is crazy (plus that was his home world) and marines still have feelings, it gives them something 2 fight 4.

Having feelings is just the kind of thing that leads people to Chaos. The only thing Space Marines fight for is the Imperium, anything outside that is heretical.

And that is why the captain is watched so closely (he also has connection with the eldar)

Renegade Blood ravens is a good idea , with that civil war going on who the hell knows what in-fighting they will go into. Here's a idea make em Black legion vetrens leading your squads? maybay make your squads mutated.

No, I'm not thinking chaos, just renegade (I'm going to call them the either renegade ravens OR the Raven enclave) something along those line... any ideas.

i have also been thinking about why they went renegade and have come up with the idea that they like the idea of a democracy over the empire instead of having an emperor. can i get away with this? (it is heresy)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No, I'm not thinking chaos, just renegade (I'm going to call them the either renegade ravens OR the Raven enclave) something along those line... any ideas.

i have also been thinking about why they went renegade and have come up with the idea that they like the idea of a democracy over the empire instead of having an emperor. can i get away with this? (it is heresy)

An empire over the Emperor would be true heary to the Space marines , True Ravens would be a okay name in my imho .

One thing i know is that there fortress is going to be called an enclave (it sounds epic) good idear for a name though, one problem with mine and your name they could be related to the raven guard.

... why shouldn't a Space Marine feel regret over the loss of their homeworld?

I'm fairly certain that most chapters do feel a strong affinity for said world, and wish to defend it at all costs.

Just look at Rynn's world, for example. And I'm fairly certain if The Rock was invaded the Dark Angels would jump on the invaders like they were the wrath of Lion'el himself. And so on.

True Ravens could be changed to First Ravens or Great Ravens , Blood Ravens could go rouge for multiple reasons...
Corrupt leader ship
Constant Chaos encounters
Black legion Interest

Some ideas for Blood Raven groups
Great Ravens : Evil self obsesive Blood Ravens , super corrupt , very nasty and vile. Believe there better than any one.
True Ravens : Renegade-branded Blood Ravens , still believe in the Emperor , true enemys of the Great Ravens.
Last Ravens : Blood Ravens who think there "true blooded" hate most SM legions , chapters go on lots of crusades that dont end well and very corrupt.



Plus what are raven guard?

What about renegade raven

Sounds good.

blood reaper wrote: Plus what are raven guard?

Quoth the Raven, Nevermore - Edgar Allen Poe

XIX SM Legion, 1st Founding Chapter

Well I played all DoWs so I could throw penny or two into the fountain...

1) Its a frikkin computer game, not a book, not even a film - just HOW can you exactly expect deep characters? Dialogues after the mission in dow 2 was a good idea though.

2) Why hate for the chaos lords? DoW 1 CSM made deal with the orks in two first games - Vanilla - Think ya git. Da spikey boyz want us to help dem to fight other boyz cuz they cant deal with dem demselfs. After we finish da other boyz we will deal with da spikey boyz az well. There was at least some plot - and becouse someone is ruthless, favours direct aproach and yells blood for the blood god does not make him a bad tactician. Do you actually think that tactical genius sits in the strategy room with pipe in one handy a bottle of brandy in the other hand and leads long discussion about whetrer it is better to move two steps here or over there? Not really - tactical geniality is about finding simple plan and then adapting it in every new situation. Things like damaged equipment, losses, weather, unpredictable events just happens - good tactician finds solution for such a crap as fast as possible. I once saw in a film about Vietnam where Captain solved overheathed mortar with several guys cooling it with their urine. Good commander must always know what to do when his man do not and leading by the example (of slaughter in this case) is valued leadership as well - Alexander the Great did not lead his Hetaroi on the right flank just for the fun - or becouse one exra horseman was meant to win the battle. And I really liked lord from chaos rising - he did not even bother, he just kept provoking marines and was successfull while doing so and died from treachery.

3) Why hate for dow "overused" Alpha legion? It came in this order : Alphans, World Eaters, Word Bearers (and Night Lords), Alphans and Black legion... 2 from 5 gee I see Alpha Legion everywhere now!!!

4) Democracy? Why for the fu*ks sake would you want democracy in a military order? Democracy just does not work, larger the area - bigger the problems...especially in times of war, even greeks - fathers of democracy, knew this.

I can imagine, if you really want some freedom, introducing renegades in the Knights of the round table style...but that would still work just for the officers.

My idea would be renegade hate for the psykers. Blood ravens are psyker chapter, their chapter master is a psyker and look where it brought the entire chapter. They should really have superstitious attitude towards the psykers, becouse their abysmal experience, trying the create new "pure" blood ravens without possible psyker taint. This should even stick with current pretty faces of the renegades...Angelos, Thule and your "hero" (possibly even Diomedes)...all the captains.

@ jolreal
1) Dow is a book (there are over three books actually)
2) this is about blood ravens not chaos lords (the best plot line is from Dow 1 though)
3) yet again BLOOD RAVENS
4) Greeks never had a true democracy. and the military would be lead by a small group (captain, Chaplin, librarian and tech marine)
however your idea for hating phykers is good (however i already have a librarian but might use this as an idea to move on with)

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:@ jolreal
1) Dow is a book (there are over three books actually)
2) this is about blood ravens not chaos lords (the best plot line is from Dow 1 though)
3) yet again BLOOD RAVENS
4) Greeks never had a true democracy. and the military would be lead by a small group (captain, Chaplin, librarian and tech marine)
however your idea for hating phykers is good (however i already have a librarian but might use this as an idea to move on with)

Dude...peace.

1) You want to play word - word with me? I was commenting what were others talking about - and that is DoW computer game series.

2) See point one.

3) See point one.

4) Do not try to lecture me in this dude. What is true democracy? Greeks invented tyranny and democracy - what is then TRUE democracy I ask you? Every greek city state, every possible polis, every monarchy had it going in its own way. I am not talking about differences concerning : Corinth, Sparta, Athens or leagues and confederacies like Aetolians or Achaeans, nor later despotical greco-persian, greco-indian or greco-egyptian Empires like Seleucids, Bactrians or Ptolemaians (or small monarchies like Bythina and Roman allies like Pergamon). I am not even talking about succession wars (which could be nice inspiration for this topic), Antigonos and his stand againt the others, Cassandros and his brief monarchy in Macedonia before heirs of Antigonos took his place, Seleucos and his rise to power or Ptolemy with his aliance against Antigonos. What do you actually know? Peace dude, peace - what I am and I was trying to say is that democracy IMHO was not best option in military order, strict rule by mere authority is way to go - but Knights of the round table COULD work if you can make some nice background.

About psykers - you must not burn them like heretics xD. Space wolves fluff does not love them too and still they use them, you just need some good idea, perhaps you should reorganise them and stop calling them librarians at all...I am curios if you can figure some nice nonSW original idea about inducting psykers in such a chapter.

Sorry i came off in the wrong way...
1) there are still 3 books so don't say there isn't
2)3) sorry i didn't realize
4) democracy can never be true, if you say every one has to vote, its not what every body wants. if you say nobody has to vote you don't get every ones view.

with the psyker idea maby i could have the head librarians and then a small group of librarians to assist with all the things they do. (however burning stuff is fun, no don't burn allys)

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:i had an idear that they just went rouge

It's Rogue! It's amazing how endemically this is used wrong.