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Just a little bunch of small changes to balance orkz on 5th. Any ork player will agree that orkz are nice, but lack a bit on the new edition, specially because the increasing on armored options on each army.
A typical ork army can hope little to win against a IG or any “Mech armie”, with the best option to destroy vehicles around the Power Klaw and his S9. If the opponent use anything like a Land Raider, them you are in trouble (any clever player will kill your boss before anything)
They got a very nice transport, who is not cheap, and explode easily, and the regular transport of the boyz is fast but fragile (and cost as much as a rhino). That and the strange thing that Meks bends physic laws and distort reality with their guns, but are not capable of create melta weapons…

The fallowing changes apply to the army list on codex orks of 4th edition, and seens to balance ork. Please, leave coments, and help me to make this a try to balance these funny green guys…

Wargear

Weapons - add the fallowing option:
Melta-Burna – Changing the fuel of the regular burna, Meks can create a stronger, focused flame, who cut armor and steel alike. Some burna boyz love this thing, sacrificing the spread flames for hell hot white flames. The great problem is that the fuels used for this are a lot more unstable, and can just explode with enough bad luck.

If the model don’t used this weapon during his shoot phase, he can use it as a power weapon on assault phase. When used that way, resolve all to-wounds with strength 6 (without any modifiers, even for Furious Charge), and roll 2d6 for armor penetration. For each attack made with a Melta-Burna on assault, throw a dice, for each 1 rolled the model suffer 1 wound, but after the attacks are made.
Obs: The kombi version of this weapon can be used in close combat, but will only work for 1 attack, and them wasted until the end of the game.

Range: 12’’ Str 6 AP 2 Assault 1, Melta, Gets Hot!

Vehicle Wargear - add the fallowing option:
Dedicated Force Field – When the Big Mek is to busy pointing his zap gun, and there is some spare grots with a bit of nuts, a Mek can just place his Kustom Force Field on the Battle Wagon roof and hope it work well enough. These thing don’t work so well when not operated by “da true mek boss”, but provide some cover to the pile of junk and metal moving on the wheels…
Vehicles with a Dedicated Force Field are always obscured for shooting (4+ cover save) and don’t give the usual +1 bonus on the damage chart for open-toped vehicles (they are damaged as not open-topped).

HQ

No changes on Special Characters.

Warboss
Add fallowing line to the “replace slugga with one of the fallowing” entry:
- shoota/Melta-Burna kombi weapon……+5 points

Big Mek
Add fallowing line to the “replace choopa with one of the fallowing” entry:
- Melta-Burna……+30 points
Add fallowing line to the “replace slugga with one of the fallowing” entry:
- shoota/Melta-Burna kombi weapon……+5 points

Weyrdboy – No changes


Elite

Nobz
Add fallowing line to Wargear
- Meganobz Replace Slugga and Choopa for Mega Armor with Power Klaw and Twin-Linked Shoota.
- Painboy in Mega Armor replaces his Power Klaw with Dok Tools and ‘urty Siringue
In transport add Looted Wagon without Boomgun as an option of Dedicated Transport (for the regular cost).
Add fallowing line to “the entire mob can be upgraded to” entry:
- Meganobz ……+30 points per model
Add fallowing line to the “any nob may replace his slugga with” entry:
- shoota/Melta-Burna kombi weapon……+5 points
Add the fallowing entry:
Any Nob may replace his twin-linked shoota for:
- shoota/Rokkit kombi weapon……+5 points
- shoota/Skorsha kombi weapon……+5 points
- shoota/Melta-Burna kombi weapon……+5 points

Mega Nobz – exclude it from codex.

Burna Boyz
Add the option to take a Trukk or a Looted Wagon (without Boomgun) as dedicated transport (for regular cost)
Add the fallowing entry:
Any Burna Boy can replace his Burna with a Melta-Burna……. +15 points

Tankbustas
Add the option to take a Trukk or a Looted Wagon (without Boomgun) as dedicated transport (for regular cost)
Add fallowing line to the “up to two Tankbustas may replace their rokkit launcha with” entry:
- Melta-Burna……+10 points

Lootas – no changes

Kommandos
Add fallowing line to the “up to two Kommandos may replace their sluggas and choopas with” entry:
- Melta-Burna……+25 points

Troops

Ork Boyz
In transport add Looted Wagon without Boomgun as an option of Dedicated Transport for mobs with 12 models or less (for the regular cost).

Gretchins – no changes

Trukk – no changes

Fast Attack

Storm Boyz – no changes

Warbuggies
Add the fallowing entry:
Models with “Skorsha” upgrade can replace they skorsha with a Melta-Burna……. +10

Warbikers – no changes

Deff Koptas – no changes

Heavy Support

Battle Wagon
Add fallowing line to the “May take any of the fallowing” entry:
- Dedicated Force Field……+50 points

Deff Dreads – no changes

Killa Kans
Add fallowing line to the “Each Killa Kan must take one of the fallowing” entry:
- Melta-Burna………+20 points

Flash Gitz – no changes

Big Gunz – no changes

Looted Wagon – no changes

I dig this melta-burna. That would be so much fun.

The dedicated force field is also fun. It looks like it could be a little OP, but for fifty points it'd better be excellent, seeing as the Tau can get that for ten.

Concerning looted wagons as transports: why? The trukk is a much better transport vehicle, being fast. 10 and 11 is not a meaningful armor difference, unless your enemy is primarily using fire warriors as AT.

As to Mega-Armoured Painboyz, there's a reason they chose not to give anybody the option of FNP on their 2+ save troops until the most recent BA codex. It's just a balance issue.

I also think that you should be able to give a 30 strong boyz mob a squadron of trukks or looted wagons as dedicated transports. If any of them are wrecked, the surviving passengers disembark and immediately become a separate unit, and the remaining mounted boyz leave them in the dust. The unit still does not have to take a break test unless they suffer 25% casualties. And the transports would have to stay within 4" of each other, and have to shoot the same target, etc.
I like the melta-burna idea, but yeah, it should have a chance to blow up.
Also, I think that the Warboss should be able to buy a rokkit pack so he can join a unit of stormboyz.

Melta-burna...

i like the 2d6 armour pen, but not as a shooting attack.
The burnas focused flame (power weapon) can easily be used as a cutting tool for searing into armour, adding a 12" shooting attack (which is longer than the range of a normal burna!) seems a bit silly.

Also, why would nobz/boss/etc get access to a melta-burna, when they cannot take a burna in the first place, combi or not.

I dig this melta-burna. That would be so much fun.

The dedicated force field is also fun. It looks like it could be a little OP, but for fifty points it'd better be excellent, seeing as the Tau can get that for ten.

Concerning looted wagons as transports: why? The trukk is a much better transport vehicle, being fast. 10 and 11 is not a meaningful armor difference, unless your enemy is primarily using fire warriors as AT.

As to Mega-Armoured Painboyz, there's a reason they chose not to give anybody the option of FNP on their 2+ save troops until the most recent BA codex. It's just a balance issue.

Looted Wagons as transports - i like the ideia, just for it =D. Its just an option with some fluff on it, some warbands like to use rhinos, others like the fast trukk. Sometimes, the +1 front armor is exactly wath you need to reach your enemy. I can see your worries, but dont see why not, and i like the fluff on it =D (that way, the fluff dont compete with haeavy supports)

Dedicated Force Field (please, give me a more funny name for this, it apear to many marine for me, lol) - i calculated the point cost based on the cost of KFF + 'Ard top. If you think about that, it bring a permanent 4+ save turn the Battle Wagon into an assault vehicle (as he loose all the disvantage of being open-toped, but keep the advantages). Seens costly, but if you think, tau are not transport dependant and assault based... =D

Melta-burna...

i like the 2d6 armour pen, but not as a shooting attack.
The burnas focused flame (power weapon) can easily be used as a cutting tool for searing into armour, adding a 12" shooting attack (which is longer than the range of a normal burna!) seems a bit silly.

Also, why would nobz/boss/etc get access to a melta-burna, when they cannot take a burna in the first place, combi or not.

I can see your worry, what about range of 6''? The melta-burna have some fun on it, part of it on the "orky version of da mareen weapon", without the shoot it would not look like an Meltagun =D
About the Kombi-thing: Noobs and Bosses can not take rokkit or skorsha, but take the Kombi versions of them, same for Melta =D

Also, I think that the Warboss should be able to buy a rokkit pack so he can join a unit of stormboyz.

Nice, dont have though about that. Organization obssessed Warbosses?

I also think that you should be able to give a 30 strong boyz mob a squadron of trukks or looted wagons as dedicated transports.

Nice ideia, i will think on the mechanic and post it later...

Thanks for the thoughts guys, lets make it happens...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote: Any ork player will agree that orkz are nice, but lack a bit on the new edition,

Thank you for declaring my opinion, but you're incorrect. Not only do I think Orks need no changes, but if someone were to change anything, they'd have to be adjusted downward.

Orks are unstoppable as currently printed.

Ork AT is the only true weak point. PK is the only AV 14 option so that - to me - is the only issue. I could handle orky trukks being a squadron option but then change boyz to requre 1 nob per trukk and thereafter the mob is defined by the trukk. No flakky option.

Another is redefining the mek megablasta option for burna boyz and the like. 1 shot at BS 2 with overheat is a guaranteed NO TAKE option. Give it something to make me think about dumping a rokkit launcha, burna or loota.

Thinking about it, i really must agree, the trukk thing is unecessary... Just move 3 squads of 12 orkz on 3 trukk together and you will have the same effect... (1 or 2 of them will reach the enemy). When you reach it, do a multi assault on the enemies.

Darknesseternal - please, share some tactics with us. I am not an experienced ork player, and i played only online unitll now. Perhaps i tryed a lot of armie lists, competitive to fluff ones, and just dont found a way to face mechanizeda armies. (Instead of the not so cheap Nob Bikers and Boss).

I like most of what you put down, especially taking the KFF as a battle wagon upgrade. The suggested point cost is to expensive if the "within 6" rule is lost. Heck I aslo want the shokk attack gun as an option. Both of those as battle wagon gear would elimate the need to spend a HQ slot just for the equipment.

Another item I hope is considered is removing weirdboy from HQ and putting them as a choice for the nob in a boyz mob, perhaps only allowing one per army. Again this keeps the HQ slot free but lets you take weirdboy who are a heck of a lot of fun to use.

Looted Wagons as transports - i like the ideia, just for it =D

... looted wagons are already transports.

Dedicated Force Field (please, give me a more funny name for this, it apear to many marine for me, lol)

Forze Shield Generata'.

Just giving orks melta won't change much - except making it much more likely to see X in battlewagon with deffrolla and melta. But that might just be me being cynical.

Interesting thoughts. For my 2 cents -

I'd add the Mek boy Junka to the codex (Apocalypse 2 I think and Imperial armour 8) with the rules set out there - It's essentially a fast Looted wagon with a Deff Rolla if you want, it can mount a KFF or SAG (although it's capacity drops to 6 if you choose one of these, which is fair enough)

In terms of anti armour, I agree that Orks lack the punch to take out anything serious. Tankbustas possibly could, I like the fluff about them, the Bomb Squigs and Tankhammers are cool, but they would be very short lived and if you're very lucky, you could glance an AV 14 vehicle to death with Rokkits before you get wiped out before you could use the Tankhammers.

Looking at the fluff for Burnas, they are supposed to cut up heavy armour and bulkheads for Meks. But Str 4, power weapon or not isn't likely to scratch anything, I'd maybe make them Str + 2D6 vs veh armour in CC to help back up their fluff. And help out where we're lacking.

As for the Warboss with a jetpack, I'd go the same route as Wazzdaka, and make Zagstrukk an independant HQ character, with the option of making Stormboyz troops if he is picked in an army list.

Weirdboyz as a possible replacement as a Nob in charge of a mob of boys is pure genius though. Even if you are limited to one per army!

Pretty much the only issue with Orks is lacking a viable way to knock down AV 14 at a range. Lootas easily take care of AV 12 or lower otherwise.

I'd like to see more options for Kanz, KFF should be a 5+ cover (4+ is a little OP) for vehicles, Meganobz need an overhaul. Give them some of the nobz options (Waagh! banner, Cybork to name a couple); Painboy shouldn't be included though, hows an ork in a giant tank suit gonna run around and inject things into his fellows? This would put them more in line with Terminators and make them viable over normal Nobz.

Grots should get more love in the new dex as well (Grot tanks would be awesome, plus some new grot weapons). Maybe a squig unit of some sort as well.

While I think you've got some interesting ideas, I also think that a lot of what you're proposing as balance is unnecessary. "Balance" does not mean "more like Marines."

Not every unit needs a dedicated transport, and not every weapon upgrade needs to be MEQ. A meltagun is a short-range weapon, and generally only available to one member of a unit. Ork boys can take three rokkits with a decent range. Personally, with an Ork's terrible BS, I'd rather get three decent strength shots off than one with a bit of a bonus against armor.

Of the armies I play (Tau, Daemons, Daemonhunters and Orks), Orks are the one I wouldn't change a think about.

Hungryp hit the nail on the head, the Green Tide is meant to be very different.

Think about how they'd kill a Land Raider in the fluff: charge it until it, or they, are dead.

Or possibly shoot it with a Shokk Attack Gun. Until it, they, both, or everyone on the planet, are dead.

Heh. Heh.

I would give tankbustas tank hunter USR.

And I'd make them be easier to control.


Let's do both

Melissia wrote:And I'd make them be easier to control.


Let's do both

For once I totally agree with you


YEa I wouldnt change a whole hell of a lot in the Ork Dex. My only real gripe (besides some rules being vague at best) is FlashGits. They are heavy, yet totally feel like elites. And Lootas are elites, yet totally feel like heavies. I mean Gits are anti infantry/HQ for sure, you start pointing them at vehicles and now your just being silly. I mean the way I see it, Nobs are mainly a CC mob, while Gits are the shooty version of nobs, so its a no brainer to me.

But thats really my only big gripe. And yea, a way to get meganobs a 5+inv simply because they are incredibly tough and all, but a simple power weapon, and they are toast. And I mean that without taking the MadDoc.

Well so far I am satisfied with my orky codex, but for one thing.
Battle wagons should be allowed to have gretchins as the crew.
Just think about it like this
5 Meganobz with a battle wagon who has RPJ and deffrolla
And another battle wagon with zzap gun 2 rokkit launchas, 2 big shootas and a killkannon on it, while Gretchins are doing the firing!
I don't see the use for battle wagon to have so strong weps with ork BS of 2. Now if a gretchin would take the steer of a battle wagon. IG would learn that battle wagons are a force to be reconned with.

Well battlewagons ARE a force to be reconned with. Ive made a couple "gun wagon" load outs before and they STILL can piss out lead. Making the chance to hit alot higher would make it unbalanced due to the amount of guns it can take.


Sides Battlewagons are prized possessions in Ork culture, no way some weedy runt like a grot will be left with one

The main problem is the fact that when our transports blow up, we are stuck in difficult terrain for about 2 turns...

I think that Orks should have a meaningful counter to TMC... swarming them with boyz does not work when a unit of gaunts going before us and re-rolling to wound us can wipe us out.

+1 Strength for using a choppa or the old choppa rule (No save better than a 4+) could give us a boost in the HTH department...

Isnt it funny how when 5th first dropped, people bitched SO BAD about Orks being to powerful and now it feels like we need a boost in CC
Ive personally always liked the choppa rule. Its nt only fluffy, but makes your super assaults seem more useful then, ok I rolled 70ish dice, hit you like 50+ times wounded you around 20ish times.....and.....now.... you lost 1 wound nice!

The best thing in your list, IMO, is making Meganobz an upgrade from normal Nobs, though I think it should cost 25 points, not 30. this fixes the main problem Meganobz have (lack of invuln and painboy) whilst keeping their main appeal going (Deathstar Super Elite Unite With only a few members, or an entire army around just them).

I also agree with replacing the Painboy's Power Klaw with the Urdy Syringe and all that, since a Painboy in fully working Mega Armour woudln't be able to fix up da boyz very well, but should be protected as anyone.

As for changes "I" would make, lets see.

Warbosses get this little git:

Big Boss Rokkit: Sometimes a truly powerful, lucky, or insane (or any combination of) Stormboy manages to survive long enough to become a nob. Even worse ones can soon take over the entire tribe, becoming a Stromboss. Once this occurs, Mek's create far more effective rokkits for him and his boys.

A Big Boss Rokkit works the same as a Stormboy Rokkit, but the player may reroll the Stormboy's movement roll. If joined with a Stormboy unite, this rule is applied to the entire unite. In addition, instead of the normal Nob unite that can be taken as a troop choice, the Stormboss may take a unite of Stormboyz as troops.

I agree that Orks need more of an edge. Quantity is not the same as quality. That said, there are many new units that I enjoy (such as the Lootas). The one thing I miss is the ability to give PKs to my Ork Runtherds. Ah, the enemy was always shocked by this and it was a fun tactic to add PKs to a Grot Unit right where it always went un-noticed.

KingCracker wrote:[
YEa I wouldnt change a whole hell of a lot in the Ork Dex. My only real gripe (besides some rules being vague at best) is FlashGits. They are heavy, yet totally feel like elites. And Lootas are elites, yet totally feel like heavies. I mean Gits are anti infantry/HQ for sure, you start pointing them at vehicles and now your just being silly. I mean the way I see it, Nobs are mainly a CC mob, while Gits are the shooty version of nobs, so its a no brainer to me.

But thats really my only big gripe. And yea, a way to get meganobs a 5+inv simply because they are incredibly tough and all, but a simple power weapon, and they are toast. And I mean that without taking the MadDoc.

I would say remove Flashgits and just make it an upgrade option for Nobz - Something like

"Replace Slugga/Choppa with Flashgit gun for .. XXX"

On that note - I think their WS does not make it a 20 pt gun - even fully upgraded. 2 shots at Str 6 with an average AP of 2.5 makes it an assault version of a plasma rifle for 20 points. Backed up with a ballistic skill of two - I highly question a cost exceeding 10 points for a fully upgraded gun. If a flashgit cost 30 points TOTAL, it might get played in a non-fluffy list. Other than moving lootas from elites and putting it up against heavies, I totally agree that lootas should probably be heavy choices.

OH! One other thing I would change, and this is for balance, is move Looters to the Heavy slot, replacing Flashgits. To make up for it, they get this

One Looter may upgrade himself to a Flashgit: +30 pts.

A flashgit has the stats of a nob and replaces his Deffgun with a Snazzgun. The Snazzgun has a whole new profile

48", S:8, AP:2, Heavy d3

Just a thought.


And finally, I think, KMBs are upgraded to S:9. That's all.

Hey guys, thanks for the replys...

About Flashgitz as Nob upgrades - i liked it, but its power could not increase. Costs and such would not reduce.

About Meganobz and Painboy - one of the things that a painboy do is a Mega Armours, so, maybe should be natural that a painboy in a Mega Armour could know to heal the other nobs on it. So, fell no pain is a ok, it increase the defense power of the unit, but dont affect the "natural weakness" of it (and, let the nobs face a normal troop of the Blood Angels).

About Lootas - they could be nice Heavy Support, but... that would compete with Battle Wagons, so, they should be better. A Mek who actually can hurt vehicles would do that.
Maybe start to consider KMB with fallowing profile: S:8 AP:1, Heavy 1, Twin-Linked.

My ideia is more like this: orks are not a ranged armie, if you give them to many ranged anti-tank weapons, you make them feel like marines. If instead of it, you give anti-tank melee weapons to fast units you give them the anti-tank and keep the feel of the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As i was saying before my sis kicked me from her computer...

So, as i see, orks are a melee army. If they had acces to anti-tank ranged they would just look like marine, and that is not what we want, because we like Orks =D

Them, who should be the melee guys to tank-hunting?

First of all: tank-bustas, they have free-LoS S8 hits, 24" range, S8, 5+ to hit and S10 (and 6+2d6) melee attacks. Its a shame that they never hit with the rokkits, and they powerfull s10 hits never hit clever players... Thats why i give them trukks, at least one tank you can hurt with it.

Them we come to another tank hunting of the codex: the punny deffkoptas, with all the nice fluff and the little usefull Chain-saw. Deffkoptas are meks adicted to speed, so, why they could not use burnas, or better: Melta-burna? (for 30 points, as they are better than chain-saw). Or better yet, cut out the Melta-Burna and put Tank Busta bombs as an option for Deffkoptas. A nice S6+2d6 hit against vehicle on a jet-bike with scout. Sound anti-tank right?

Here would be my thoughts:

Snazzguns are now Twin-Linked.

Flashgits have access to Bosspoles, Waaagh Banners, and Nob transports.

Mega Armored Nobs have access to Bosspoles, Waaagh Banners, and Cybork Bodies.

Badrukk has a Power Weapon.

Kustom Mega Blastas and Zzap Guns are Melta weapons.

Tankbustas no longer have the Glory Hogs rule, and do have the Tankhunter rule.

Boys have access to Looted Wagons (without Boomguns) as dedicated transports. Burna Boys and Tankbustas have access to Trukks and Looted Wagons (without Boomguns) as dedicated Transports.

No limit on the number of Ard Boys that may be taken.

Weirdboys make their squad Fearless (representing the Madboyz).

Warbosses in Mega Armor may take Kombi-Weapons (this was probably an oversight in the first place).

Warbikers have the Scout special rule (uncertain about this one; however, it seems that Warbikers are currently in a bad place, relative to Nob Bikers, and the other Fast Attack options).


Basically, I'm looking to keep what's currently used where it is, and trying to bring what's currently considered to be the bad choices back into the running. As said, the codex as a whole isn't lacking in power; maybe it is compared to, say, the Blood Angels, but it's doing well enough over all. What it really needs is internal balance, not external balance.

Flashgitz: Waargh banner... perhaps not. A BS version hell yes!

Also maybe give MANZ a heavy weapon to go with their S+P?
Badrukk is good as is weirdly enough.
Now Snikrott..... that should be PWed
KMB - yes, Zzapp... curious...

Perhaps give warbuggies the exhaust cloud rule?
weirdboys - give us upgrades or make them elites?