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One of my friends and fellow players plays SW. I don't know how to kill them. Here is an Example of what he has.
HQ consists of Njal Stormcaller and the other goofy SW wanna-be librarian.
Troops consist of 4 5-man squads w/ meltagun in a razorback w/ lascannon and twin-linked plasmagun.
Elites are 3x Lone Wolves each with the same wargear which is Terminator Armour, Storm Shield, Chainfist and 2x Wolves.
Fast Attack is 3 Land Speeder Typhoons.
Heavy Support has 3 6-man squads of Longfangs w/ 3x Missile Launcher and 2x Lascannon each.

How do I stop this with my SM's? He has more guys, more weapons and they have abilities that mine can't hope for.

Wow. Sounds like a waac list to a novice like me.
Get a different playing partner, is what I'd do

Maybe spam bodies. Pop his transports and then use overwhelming fire to down his small squads.

Try high AP Weapons to deal with his troops/elites like; melta guns, plasma guns, Librarian's Flamer

For tanks try a solid Predator with lascannon sponsons
I have only played SW once and realized that the more guns you have, the better you are off (aka no combat)

True, or get a playing partner not using a wicked overpowered list lol
I've never played a real game of 40k, so your idea may work.

Hmm, no heavy flamers huh? Hard counter to razor spam and other parking lot armies is scout bikes. Especially if you go first.

1. Play lots of people and gain experience.
2. Build a competitive list to match your opponent's.
3. ?????
4. Profit.

you might try a couple of Sternguard squads with Combi-plasma guns.

You can use the AP3 special ammo to kill his normal marines and use the plasma to kill those lone wolves.



if you do end up in a KP game leave the lone wolves alone. if they are alive at the end of the game they give you a kill point, if they are dead you don't get the kill point.


try and pop those Razorbacks. double Autocannon Dreadnoughts and Land Speeder Typhoons of your own do a great job of killing transports.

Oh, someone I played against used two dreads with double assault cannons and three predators with heavy bolter sponsons and a Librarian with Flamer thingy, not to mention two land speeaders with heavy flamers and multi meltas


Automatically Appended Next Post:
can someone please click on Spike

The simplest way is to cause hell in their front lines/flanks...if you're not opposed to it...I would say take Khan with a unit of Terminators and outflank their Land Raider...make it a Redeemer and wreck face.

If you out maneuver his army you can work wonders on a list like what you have mentioned...you can be half as cheesy by taking an Inquisitor with a Hood and harassing the Rune Priests by canceling out some of their Psychic Powers; however, that's pretty dickish...

Other options are Bike Armies as they are fast enough to be in assault by Turn 2 and wrecking face soon after...

There are plenty of ways to go about it...but before you take any suggestions, can we ask what list you have been using in response?

Heres what I use.
HQ
Vulkan He'Stan and
Librarian in terminator armour w/ storm shield (Nullzone and Might of Ancients)
Troops
Tac x10 w/ Plasma Cannon, Meltagun, Powerfist and Rhino.
Tac x10 w/ Plasma Cannon, Meltagun, Powerfist and Drop Pod.
Tac x10 w/ Lascannon, Flamer, Powerfist and Rhino
Scout x10 w/ 5x Combat Blades (combat squad), 5x Camo-Cloaks, 4x Sniper Rifles and Missile Launcher
Scout x5 w/ 4x Combat Blade and Powerfist. (In Land Speeder Storm).
Elites
Ironclad Dreadnought w/ Heavy Flamer and Drop Pod.
Fast Attack
Assault Squad x10 w/ Thunder Hammer and Drop Pod.
Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Support
Vindicator w/ Seige Shield
Thunderfire Cannon

I have Kor'Sarro Khan on a bike, and I have outflanked a Land Raider w/ Thundernators in it. Didn't work, too much shooting and guys on his part.
Also this is my army that I won with at a local tournament, granted there were only 12 players.

You have Vulkan but you are not maximizing his strengths. You don't have may meltas and flamers for Vulkan to twin-link. You have tons of bodies and Pedro would help you out more than Vulkan.

That may be true but Vulkan is cooler
jk
Lysandar would do better most likely IMO

I have used Pedro. He doesn't work. Lysander is fun and makes things go smashy smashy, but I find Null Zone to be worth more, since it says screw you invul saves to everyone within two feet of every direction.

Pedro is good if you have a couple units of sternguard and an Assaulty unit capable of benifiting from the +1 attack bubble.


pedro + Null zone Libby will likely = Awsome.

agreed, but it's an expensive army. Believe me I have tried LOTS of lists. Every Combo as long as it doesn't include any Ultramarine HQ's I have built it, and probabally played it. It wasn't until this new SW dex came out that I found something that I just couldn't stop. I think that's the dex thou honestly, not the build or players.

Vindicators. x3

If you run Vulkan...do it this way...

H.Q.

Vulkan -190

Librarian
Terminator Armor, Null Zone, Avenger -125

Elites

Assault Terminators 5x
Land Raider Crusader: Extra Armor, Multi Melta, 5x TH/SS -475

Dreadnought
Multi Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod -150

Dreadnought
Multi Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod -150

Troops

Tactical Squad 10x
Multi Melta, Flamer, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod -225

Tactical Squad 10x
Multi Melta, Flamer, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod -225

Tactical Squad 10x
Multi Melta, Melta, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod -230

Heavy Support

Vindicator -115

Vindicator -115

Total: 2000

Alright, so if he goes first...your day is going to suck...HARD...so put those Vehicles behind LOS blocking terrain and hope for the best. Worst case scenario...Sacrifice a vindicator for cover on the Land Raider...if you get first turn...be ready for him to seize first of all...then drive everything down his throat. You'll have 3 Drop Pods coming in on the first turn...obviously, you want the Dreadnoughts in first...I would recommend Roasting Long fangs/Messiing up Armor and Line of Sight. If he reserves everything...coolio, you're one step ahead as it gives you a turn or two to cross the board unmolested. Tesmpests Wrath can be a bitch for you; however, your goal will be to bring the pain HARD and FAST...you need to punch this army in the face...period...out shooting it with Codex Marines is not going to happen, you need to break its jaw and stay on the go. That's all I've got.

i would swap the MMs on those Tac squads for Missile launchers.


I don't care how good a TL-MM is, you will never get a chance to use it unless you are playing a totally incompetant opponent. missile launchers are also free and WILL get used.

Eh, I figured the MM and ML were interchangeable according to the OP's tastes...way I see it, all of the shooting is going to be going on at 12-24" anyway so why not get something that's twin linked? Not to mention, the highest armor around is going to be 12 so it wouldn't hurt either way...Just my thoughts.

ofcBOOMstick wrote:agreed, but it's an expensive army. Believe me I have tried LOTS of lists. Every Combo as long as it doesn't include any Ultramarine HQ's I have built it, and probabally played it. It wasn't until this new SW dex came out that I found something that I just couldn't stop. I think that's the dex thou honestly, not the build or players.

Last I checked Codex: space marines had scout bikes.
You go first, infiltrate, scout turbo boost, move 12" assault 6". The razors are stationary if you went first. If you do it properly you can assault multiple razors.

If you go 2nd, you turboboosted with your scout move anyways so they have 3+ cover. No heavy flamers + toughness 5=autowin. If he wants to move 12" so you hit on 6's, you've turned off his shooting. He has one turn to shoot you before the scout bikes disrupt his lines.

Turbo Boosting on the scout move does not give you 3++ on turn 1. There was a thread on YMDC already.

That said, the best way to deal with this list would probably be raider spam of some sort, backed up by drop pods to disrupt his firebase. The land raiders are fairly safe from missiles, which is the majority of your opponent's firepower, and once they're close enough to disgorge their contents, said contents will be in assault.

I think the list you posted has a lot of room for improvement in regards to fighting the Wolves. Personally I'd ditch all the Scouts and the Land Speeder Storm (no matter how cool it looks), drop all powerfists in favour of combi-weapons or power weapons and either have Drop Pods or Rhinos. I'd drop the Assault Squad in favour of TH/SS Terminators. That'll save you, what? A couple of hundred points? You could then fit in another Vindicator or Ironclad. I'd also be tempted to drop the plasma cannons in favour of multi-meltas & if you've got room for Locator Beacons/Deathwind launchers then all the better, as that'll help by making the Drop Pods a viable target, forcing him to split his fire for at least a turn or two. If you deep strike on either flank that'll force him to stretch his force while you hammer it with the Vindicator and Thunderfire Cannon etc. Of course that's all theory

This is if money is no object

Failing that berate him for his Beard and his cowardly lack of creativity and say 'cheese' in different tones whenever he moves a model, or else lay down some Scooby Snacks in a trail that leaves off the table edge

I believe he cannot have another Libi if he picks the stormcaller. dunno for sure but I think its because the stormcaller has all Psychic powers and the second Libi cannot pick the same powers.

his lone wolfs are the only real close combat units so you have to take the fight to him. droppods with assault units and/or landraiders with terminators have to do the job. Get vulcan in there as soon as possible!

Droppod with sterngaurd can also work well. get 10 of them with 8 combimelta's and two heavy flamers. you can combatsquad anyway you like.

5 combimelta to kill a razorback and two heavy flamers to finisch the grey hunters. OR

4 combimeltas and another 4 combimeltas to kill two vehicles. OR

4 combimeltas and a heavy flamer that can torch a long fang squad. if the long fangs stand close together you can pick two units with two combat squads.

if the get in close combat with a lonewolf you try to run (combat tactics) and shoot the guy.

Send death threats to GW on how cheesy they are.

nothing in 40k prevents 2 psykers in the same army knowing the same powers(only in Fantasy)


@Martyr: MM=/=Missile launcher. they both are move or fire weapons. MM will wreck any vehicle that it does manage to hit, BUT. it is only effective within 12"(beyond that it's the same as a missile launcher aside from AP1)

If your opponents are stupid enough to allow their land raider or other powerful vehicle near your footslogging MM then you really need to find some better opponents.

you belief that most shooting is around 12-24" is wrong. there really will only be 1 round at that range. most shooting is between 18-36"

MMs are good when they can move and fire.



you have to have your MM within 12" to be effective. your opponent then has a full turn to either, A) move your target vehicle away outside 12"(which will neuter it's effectivness) or B) destroy the squad carrying the MM.



the Missile launcher has about the same effectivness beyond the 12" range that the MM has, but it's effective range is twice as long. this means you can park the Missile launcher and it's combat squad in terrain anywhere with a good view and, assuming a standard 4x6 table, nearly the entire board will be in range. you will get 4+ rounds of shooting where with the MM you would be lucky to the extreme to get 1 shot off.

shogun wrote:I believe he cannot have another Libi if he picks the stormcaller. dunno for sure but I think its because the stormcaller has all Psychic powers and the second Libi cannot pick the same powers.

RaW wise I think he can since Stormcaller has all the powers, thus has a unique combination of powers that no other priest can copy

there is no rule forbidding 2 psykers in the same army from having 2 identical powers.

Its not even a RAW issue, its also very much RAI.. Okay so NO SPACE WOLF rune priest can exist period because Njal knows all the powers? Come on heh.. Hes just the most powerful, plenty of other rune priests would know various other abilities.. just perhaps not all of them

Combination = sum of all parts combined..

Youre gonna have a hard time beating wolves with SM or really any list that isnt IG or BA or also SW.. ive been playing SW in tournaments and I really havent seen much that can give them that much trouble.. even in 'ard boyz

Grey Templar wrote:there is no rule forbidding 2 psykers in the same army from having 2 identical powers.

Unless its Space Wolves. They cannot have 2 identical HQ units, which includes same combination of psyker powers