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Quite simply, do you ever both to take the Deff Dreads if you're running a Killa Kan army?

They're tougher and bigger but you can only get 1 per slot instead of 3. I can see taking the "troop" one since you probably have a Mek but is that it?

Take them if you got meks (which btw you should usually have). Skip them if not becuase that will ruin the point of a kan wall list.

I would take them if you have the points. Once you fill up on 9 Kans, certain points levels demand those extra walkers to complete the list. Throw a pair by your Meks with close range weaponry and walk them up behind the Kans. Hopefully the Kans will take the fire and then the Dreads can do the charging.

Deff Dreads are cool but not needed to cover you boyz units. If you have the points then go for it but you will be fine with out them.

I think you'd be better off with five Deff Dreads anyways.

Nurglitch wrote:I think you'd be better off with five Deff Dreads anyways.

Not sure about that. I take a dread when I can, its an extra, and not necessary. It is also not a scoring unit.

sickening wrote:Deff Dreads are cool but not needed to cover you boyz units. If you have the points then go for it but you will be fine with out them.

Well I'd like to include them so I'm hoping they don't hurt my army.

Sounds like they're good buys assuming they don't cut into your Killa Kans.

Im warming up to the Deff Dread lately. I like the idea of 5 actually. Kans are cool and GOOD but my latest experience with them had me wishing they were AV12. I like that dreads can take advantage of Armor Plates and Riggers.

What I would miss is the BS3 of the Kans. This I can compensate with liberal use of TL Rokkit buggies. They hit at a slightly higher percentage than BS3 Rokkits. By combining these two platforms - Dreads and Buggies - I still maintain the Squadron advantage of the Kans (keeping the buggies turns 1 and 2 near the KFF).

When its time for the Boyz to get stuck in, the buggies allow me to open up my lines with their extra movement so the boys can shoot through the gaps.

Id go with Lootas to support, a units of Gretchin and 2 KFF's to round it out.

The thing about Kans is that they get murdered by stuff like Autocannons. Being in a squadron means they can be wrecked by Immobilized results, on glancing hits, which is not so great on AV11. Plus they look awesome.

Deff dreads seem to work well in Kan Wall lists. Being Init 4 with a crapload of str 10 attacks rocks. It also gives you something good to take down opposing dreads; because SM dreads go at I4, will normally put some hurt on kanz. Dreads will at least wreck them at the same time.

Absolutely--you need something with a slightly bigger punch in cc. Plus, because of the two meks with KFF you have (I assume), they're troops, which doesn't hurt at all.

MekanobSamael wrote: Plus, because of the two meks with KFF you have (I assume), they're troops, which doesn't hurt at all.

This is a false =P Their troops, which provides the benifit of being able to take 5 hs choices, however if one does this it's at the cost of two scoring troop selections.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition the cover rules, when using DD, if in tournaments could really screw one, a savvy shooter will simply state that <50% of your unit is not obscured if the dreads aren't run tightly spaced.

At best it means your 4+ is reduced to a 5+ 50%->33% or 43% less effective iirc. I feel, if going walker spam, that 2x3 and 3 would give one the best spread for cover saves hittieness and stuff ^_^

ChrisCP wrote:

MekanobSamael wrote: Plus, because of the two meks with KFF you have (I assume), they're troops, which doesn't hurt at all.

This is a false =P Their troops, which provides the benifit of being able to take 5 hs choices, however if one does this it's at the cost of two scoring troop selections.

4 30 man shoota mobs is plenty imo. Although you do lose the ability to have 10 man grot teams I suppose

True 120 boys is alot but when the save is only 5+ not 4+? And as you said no gretchin, this could result in being forced to split the ball before one arrives, or having to make mad dashes turn 4, or conga lines etc etc, having that one 67 point 20 model squad means that in 2/3 of game you will easile be able to snatch a home obby. At the expense of Three time less rokkits that will hit per Deff, and less, feild one is able to cover, hell the only benifit (that I can still justify at the expense of Kans) is WS 4, which of advancing an shooting isn't going to help until turn 3 minimum.

Would 1 Deff Dread and 3 squads of Killa Kans be a better compromise?

Part of me is wondering if you really need that 2nd Mek/KFF.

minigun762 wrote:Would 1 Deff Dread and 3 squads of Killa Kans be a better compromise?

Part of me is wondering if you really need that 2nd Mek/KFF.

2 KFF's allow you to spread out a little more, and offers some extra insurance if someone lashes one of the KFF's out of range of the Kans or some other such shennanigans. Plus it lets you get the full 11 walkers on the table, which is just awesome looking.

kaiservonhugal wrote:
Id go with Lootas to support, a units of Gretchin and 2 KFF's to round it out.

I'm not sure you need the grots. I get why you use them but I don't think they are necessary. I almost always place objectives somewhat forward at about the spot were I think I'm gonna end up. And I place them as close together as I can. 20 or 30 boyz can cover allot of ground and they are still covered by a few kans (I can think of only one time some one killed all my kans). I don't care how many objectives I start the game with just how many I end with.
I don't think you need two kff's, I play with one and its pretty easy to cover 9 kans and 60 boyz. I can see why you would take two though.
My only problem with Deff dreds is you don't get as much bang for you 100 or so pt's compared to cans.

How out of place would a BattleWagon be in that same kind of army? Its more armor on the table but its meant to be speeding around, not moving up slowly.

Separating it from the main horde is just begging for it to be killed and to expose its side and rear to the enemy. Maybe turn it into a gun-boat? That way it'll distract somewhat from the Walkers and it can grind up behind them. A Kill-Kannon might be fun.

Nurglitch wrote: Maybe turn it into a gun-boat? That way it'll distract somewhat from the Walkers and it can grind up behind them. A Kill-Kannon might be fun.

I thought you couldn't take a Killkannon on it if you are taking it for Nobz. This is assuming I am using all 3 Heavy slots for Kans and 1 troop squad for a Deff Dread already.

Or am I mistaken? I'm at work so I can't check.

The reason you need two KFF is simple, Jaws.

Besides this, you need to have a majority (2 out of 3) kanz within 6" of your KFF to get the 4+ save. This is almost impossible to achive if you have 9 kanz and only one KFF Mek.

And also to point out, the higher the Kan wall list goes in points, the more likely an opponent can wreck it before they can do serious damage.

Grimgob wrote:Besides this, you need to have a majority (2 out of 3) kanz within 6" of your KFF to get the 4+ save. This is almost impossible to achive if you have 9 kanz and only one KFF Mek.

I don't ever remember seeing any thing that said you need the majority of you unit to get the save.

sickening wrote:

Grimgob wrote:Besides this, you need to have a majority (2 out of 3) kanz within 6" of your KFF to get the 4+ save. This is almost impossible to achive if you have 9 kanz and only one KFF Mek.

I don't ever remember seeing any thing that said you need the majority of you unit to get the save.

They are vehicles, and in a squadron. It works a bit differently then normal conditions. Look up the KFF rules on YMDA, youll find a few threads discussing it


(I cant spell lol)

minigun762:

Yup, that'll teach me to post without checking first. The Nob Battlewagon can't have a Kill-kannon. I was thinking of the Heavy Support version that just reduces its cargo capacity. Therefore I recommend a Kannon. Not as pretty or useful, but handy for some things.

KingCracker wrote:

sickening wrote:

Grimgob wrote:Besides this, you need to have a majority (2 out of 3) kanz within 6" of your KFF to get the 4+ save. This is almost impossible to achive if you have 9 kanz and only one KFF Mek.

I don't ever remember seeing any thing that said you need the majority of you unit to get the save.

They are vehicles, and in a squadron. It works a bit differently then normal conditions. Look up the KFF rules on YMDA, youll find a few threads discussing it


(I cant spell lol)

I looked and didn't find anything convincing can you please explain the reasoning.

ChrisCP wrote:This is a false =P Their troops, which provides the benifit of being able to take 5 hs choices, however if one does this it's at the cost of two scoring troop selections.

Are you saying you run a kan wall with six squads of boyz? That doesn't sound like efficient force denial to me.

Denial?

Not six boys squads, but maybe taking gretchin is gone, and the dreds have their own ramifications for the 4+ basis of the build that I've mentioned.

Force Denial.

This is the principle behind the low-points Kan Wall--your opponent has basically nothing to fire his anti-personnel weaponry at, since your army is completely operating on AV's. It's the same principle as the tyranid horde list--nothing to fire big scary anti-tank at. It works based on the idea that the enemy HAS to have both anti-armor and anti-infantry weapons in his army, and makes that versatility backfire on him by making one of those weapons groups useless.

A kan wall backed up by a large horde of boyz has plenty of soft targets for enemy shurikannons, heavy bolters, and burst cannons.

A kan wall backed up by a few dreads and squads of mounted boyz (Or grots hiding in cover) has virtually none.

BTW, I think I can speak for most of the people on this thread when I say that I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "ramifications for the 4+ basis of the build that I have mentioned."