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My troops choices are predominately Tac squads, probably with the odd few BP/CCW scouts tossed in to hold objectives for me. But I was thinking about having my HQ squads (and elites) be very assault oriented. Example of an "in a vacuum" Captain & CS:

Captain - 125 Points
* Power Fist
* Everything else stock

Command Squad - 130 Points
* BP & CCW on Vets/Apoth
* Champion w/ PW and Combat Shield (Do these count as Veterans? Can I give him a power fist?)

Going for hard hitting with the Cap with the power fist, though it is kind of a waste of his initiative. Perhaps I should give him a regular PW (or relic blade? He gets 3 attacks already) instead, and give the PF to someone in the squad? Also these guys will be in a transport, or perhaps a drop pod would be better?

A Chapter Master assaulty squad would be:

Chapter Master - 165
* PF
* Artificier Armor
* Otherwise stock

Honour guard - 145
* 2 extra members
* Relic Blades

All assaulty indeed. Here I can't put a PF on anyone except the CM. Interestingly the squad doesn't get access to shields, but they do get Artificier Armor. Should I add more guys? Should I not fool with the Relic Blade?

M.

Never take Powerfists on anything that is I5 can take a Relic Blade. The PF wastes his I5 advantage, and the Relic Blade is still S6 so he won't miss out on much.

That is Rule #1

Honor Guard Suck, they are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too expencive unless your Chapter name begins with "Bloo-" and ends in "-gels". Then they are sweet

That is Rule #2

If you want a good assaulty squad, take TH/SS Termies. They hit like a ton and a half of bricks and pretty much never die unless they get hit by like 5 units at the same time. They are everyone's greatest annoyance.

That is Rule #3

I like a Libby. He's both good for assaults and for shooting. No squad though unlike BA

Champions(Company or Chapter) are not vets(or honor guards) and therefore cannot take the Vets options(or the Banner for honor guard).

Company Champions are Bad, they only get a Power weapon and Combat Shield so still just have their Base attacks(they have no Bolt pistol, boltgun, nor Chainsword) and have no access to any of the options aside from Taking a Bike(it is whole squad or none). they also have nothing really over a regular Veteran just taking a Power sword(the regular vet w/Power Sword will get an additional attack, and only loses the 6++ and a point in WS, but costs the same).

Honor guard have some dubious options; such as replacing the Chapter Champion's boltgun with a second normal close combat weapon(giving him 3 1-handed CCWs, 2 of them normal and adding 0 benefit or penalty; but at least it is free), or Adding a relic blade to members(negating any bonus attacks for 2 weapons due to having 2 different special Close combat weapons; the relic blade is 1-handed by default, not that you have a choice in using or not using 2-handed CCWs to begin with). The rest seem mostly alright, but not fantastic.

As said earlier Power Fists/thunder hammers on ICs(without Storm Shields, T5+, and/or eternal warrior) is generally a just plain bad idea, you risk losing those IC's to pretty much any model/unit you would be sending them up against, often before you ever get to strike with that Fist/Hammer.

Captain's on Bikes with TH+SS, or anything+PF(SS still works the best) could be useful though; but again as said with the Cap's I5 Relic Blade+whatever is better.

Chapter masters should only be used to bring the honor guard(Without the bad choices) but still then you are paying quite a bit for some pretty meh choices(they are pretty pricey for Sgts with Arti-armor and power weapons, but still a little less than such a sgt would be), and at that point you do want them tooled for CC.

Most "nilla HQ are pretty well where you get your CC power-houses; that or assault termies. Assault marines are really just distractions(unless accompanied by a Chaplain with a jump-pack)

As said, it's hard to beat TH/SS terminators for assault effectiveness in a SM army. Their combination of affordable cost, excellent killiness, and durability make a unit that's difficult to compete with.

Their only downside, generally, is the need to buy a land raider to deliver them.

Another option, though, is just to take a huge squad of 10 and run them up the center, dominating the midfield. If you do this, a Chaplain makes an outstanding HQ to complement them, both making them Fearless (outstanding protection against IG psyker battle squads) and making them even more devastating on the charge. This unit is deadly and surprisingly affordable.

I've also seen people use a big squad of 10 regular terminators like this. They're not as durable due to the lack of 3+ Invulnerable, but they can shoot effectively, especially if you throw in assault cannons or (more commonly) cyclones.

So a Captain and his command squad tooled for one HQ, and a Chappy for the second, run in a TH/SS Termie squad should be the heart of my assault units?

M.

If you're running a chaplain, getting cassius doesnt seem like a bad idea.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Company Champions are Bad, they only get a Power weapon and Combat Shield so still just have their Base attacks(they have no Bolt pistol, boltgun, nor Chainsword)

Nope, they still have their original equipment, the company champion upgrade doesn't say it replaces anything. You pay the same as you would for a power weapon on anyone else, but get a PW, 6+ invulnerable, and additional WS (which is 'hits on 3' vs 'hits on 4' against WS4 like marines and aspect warriors), so it's actually a good deal.

I think it's a waste to build Codex Space Marines for close combat given their shooting power. For the cost of Power Weapons you can have a Command Squad armed with Plasma Guns, which works well with an Apothecary.

Same with Terminators, unlike Assault Terminators they can do something on the turn they Deep Strike, hit just as hard, and have the same resistance to the torrent of AP5+ attacks that'll bring them down.

A Librarian with the Gate of Infinity is better than a Chaplain, if you're taking Terminators.