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So tyranids they have a strange codex I like it, its not that competitive but in the store you dont hv to be that good. Its more how you play with your army than your list in freindlies. But an army with poison weapons really. That have ap 5 the nids didn’t stand a chance.

I played my first game against dark eldar I was running monstrous nids list 2 trygons running , 2 dakka fex(no comment please i know their over priced but i like em) 3 tervigons , deathstar/ and gaunts and hive gaurd.

His was basically proxy old dark eldar models with new rules. Everything in raiders equal warrior to witches. And hellions with special character and bomber thing. i wont go into details but first turn forwards in to cover for him and same for me not much shooting bar a few dark lances couple of wounds on tervigon. His next turn he fething open fired with everything he’s got on raiders. And he had splinter racks so from 1 unit of 10 de warriors that’s 20 shots (I don’t know what special weps and stuff he had) hitting on 3s with reroll wounding on 4s.
And he had 3 units of these. By turn four my monstrous stuff was lying dead with more poison in them than the death guard. Rest of the games he whipped around with his wyches in raiders and 1 unit hellions mopped up my tervigins and gaunts. While the other plagued my deathstar.

In the end he had one objective and i contested 2. So it looks like an average game. No I was dying my only saving grace was death leaper. He leapt around objectives instant killing his units so no feel no pain s6 .

What I am really upset about is not the de because you can’t hate them. It’s the fact that as gw tries to undo the mech game their leaving tyranids with no way to turn. We now have more mandatory units and so many veto units its silly.

As its obvious de player will spring everywhere in store. i have had to change my view

almost mandatory units:
hive guard -still use full and now better at popping raiders meaning them rushing you is very risky
hormagaunts and gaunt - my gaunts have become stronger , only things i could say to my friend in that game was 'ha you wound gaunts on a 4+ lol supergaunts'
tervigon- now i know this goes against my mc rule but spawning super gaunts really off them as he couldn’t keep up killing them
warriors- with a tervigon giving them feel no pain 3 wounds and an armours saves against splinter rifles i could see them being a must
tyrannofex- for blasting the raider from long distance and flaming wyches

almost unusable units:
carnifexes- almost unusable scrap that unusable, with four wounds and only 3+ armour save one round of shooting took it down and they got a pain token
deathstar-not as bad but its reliance on t6 to stop weaker weapons hurting it is gone, de really hurt, the hellions just flew around shooting it with their poison knocking two wounds off a turn, and the rest of the army ignored it,
pyrovore- just no nothings changed
gargoyles and harpy- your just giving them kill points

meh units
trygon- its great distracter but it will die or on raider they will run. mine worked and contested an objective but the other
raveners- come up onslaught into one off their units it dies horribly and then..... so do they, another kill point please

what iv learnt
horde armies will spring up
unit sizes will rise to give no easy kill points or pain tokens
high toughness and mc will stop being used , because its just no fun if your opponent can kill it
static armies I believe will be more common just sit in your deployment zone and blast down those raiders and hellions

sorry for the long thought thread love to hear your thought have any off you found anything out by playing de or you thought on how the game will change

Hi~!

Check this out
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319613.page

Ok the main problem is, every army has that almost perfect anti army. You know, those armies that just counter them, perfectly? Well your MC running against a faster, poisoned army, that was your counter.

Not really a proxy if they are the genuine old models unless they lack the correct equipment.

Yea I just read the rest of your post (the usefulness of a unit)

Carnifex - Really? You think this is useless? Im a bit nervous when those are around. A fex WILL make any vehicle turn to scrap in 1 turn. Ive had them eat BW like they were trukks against a railgun. Yea, they are 3+ save, so anything ap3 will wound them, but spod them in, use cover, dont send them against a poison weapon.

Gargoyles - I think these are more a play style, but their attacks are poisoned, and so sending them against things like DE, is a serious waste of points. Why? Because they are too weak to use the poison against. But they are jump troops, and cover ALOT of ground. Not to mention they are cheaper then dirt (same points as an Ork boy, but poisoned + jump troops? Yes please) can easily swarm a smaller unit/ tie up a horde unit, and they are awesome at taking out high T units.

The length of the post is not a problem in the slightest. However we do ask users to avoid text speak and abbreviations such as "ur" when writing, and the odd capital letter at the beginning of sentences and the like would go a long way in improving the style and content of your posts. Thanks in advance

carnifex dont turn vehicles to scrap though, its because vehicles just avoid them even podding them means they stand around . And just because its toughtness 6 it means nothing it 4 wounds and a 3+ save for 160 points . Its the definition of a point sink. sorry iv used them forever an still do because i think their awsome but they rarly get points back or work in synergy with the army.but still podding one into the middle of the enemy is fun

Thats where your problem shines. Dont spod 1 in the enemy ranks, spod 3

podding 3 really. I mean 3 different pods coming down at different times and it uses all three heavy support which is just less trygon.

Then use none, or use outflanking, as if you're dropping one you're basically going "Please kill this, I hate it so much!".

Mech Eldar and Mech Dark Eldar (if the new are anything like the old) are basically hard counters to the MC list. Sure you can rip open our flimsy tanks, but can you catch them?

If you really want to go with the list maybe a flying Hive Tyrant. But really that tactica would give way better advice as even the winged Hive Tyrant can be more of a liability against that type of list.

all im trying to say is gw have restricted tyranid to a number of units. As army round poisin ruins mostrus creater like carnifex which only have 4 wounds

Sounds like the OP has a bad case of They Changed It Now It Sucks.

royal house wrote: so tyranids they have a strange codex i like it, its not that competitive

I stopped reading the rest of your post here, since you're woefully mistaken.

Like someone said earlier, every build should have a counterbuild. Well now TMC have a counter that doesn't consist on Massive AT.

GW didn't limit anything. A Mawloc will still eat alot of Dark Eldar. A Fex is still fairly useless. Tervigon still isn't mandatory ( Run two Flyrants. See how the Dark Eldar like that.) Tyrannofex has always been a good choice( just glue a Stranglethorn Cannon on a Carnifex's crotch, It's close enough.) And you forgot Shrikes. Take some of those with a Flyrant. Fun times for all.

i love your idea for tyrannofex i havent used them much but shrikes rule i thought everyone knew that. and their shouldnt be an army to counter another army, plus who do tyranids counter. the guy who wrote the new de codex wanted to write the tyranid one so is punishing us who else is affected by army wide posin rule so much as tyranids.

So 1 unit is useless in a fire fight against DE now it is a completely non-viable choice for any army to take what so ever?

Thats a pretty crap way to look at the use of a unit.
My Broadsides are crap against BA assault squads with near enough army wide 2+ saves and FnP. But that doesnt make me think my Broadsides are useless.

Nurgle stuff, any MC in the Daemons Codex.

I'm loving it witht Tau though. My weapons wound Dark Eldar on 2s, their weapons wound me on 4s.

SaintHazard wrote:Sounds like the OP has a bad case of They Changed It Now It Sucks.

No, I don't think that's what the OP is about. However, he is concerned about a new FoTM codex and probably having to pack up the game until:

A.) Everyone jumps on a new FotM bandwagon
B.) Figures out some way of dealing with the new threat.

To the OP, this is a great time to start trying out a lot of new things in your Army List. Even things you may think are completely ridiculous and silly. Don't listen to the morons either here on Dakka or you FLGS that think every single game has to be a win or you're a loser. Personally I look forward to the excitement of facing those new armies to let me grow as a tactician.

So by your logic, my Chaos is poorly underpowered when I face Imperial Guard and lose? BRILLIANT! I should quit the game for not knowing my place in the world!

Who is saying anything about " every single game has to be a win or you're a loser"?

Most of that "Everyone"( being a gross overstatement) will get tired of Dark Eldar and go back to the Army of their choice after a few weeks/months. There will still be more dark Eldar players than there was before, but not every single army from now until the next codex will be Dark Eldar.

im the only person in my area to play tyranids so i lost for the fist 3 months until i worked out myself how the units work i m just feeling that posins a little unfair on my monstrus critter.and iv played another game with a horde of nids,tervigons and warriors, and won so i know how to beat his de army i miss my carnifexs.

-

I don't think Nid's are bad at all. I have a friend who runs a great Tyrannid list and they are one of my most feared opponents. However, the abundance of a few things have made it harder for them.

1. Poisoned
It's funny because Nid's have an abundance of this as well. I hate that this rule is being given out so much. It just feels wrong that my Daemon Prince of Nurgle fears 10 charging guants much more than a kitted out Space Marine squad. Perhaps the days of high toughness creatures are ending? They have a place, but if you only have one of two they can get rocked pretty hard. Dark Eldar gunboats will really take this to task. 9 splinted rifles and a blaster versus a Hive Tyrant could pop off 3 wounds easy. Not good.

2. FNP
Why does everything get to "feel no pain"? It slows the game down, puts even more of a premium on special weapons, and further invalidates the average homeboy troop choices. Over saturation of this rule; bad. Over saturation of this rule and bargain basement prices; horrible. Plague Marines paid a pretty solid cost for this, but it still seemed a bit low. Nids pay 15 points and a psychic test, Blood Angels pay 20 points on top of a sergeant for FNP and furious charge within 6". Dark Eldar pay next to nothing for this. The escalation makes it tougher for units that have no special weapons (like guants).

3. JoTWW (and "removed from play"/characteristics tests)
Ah Jaws of the Wolf World, what horrors have you brought? Let me clarify right now. I don't think Jaws is unilaterally broken, it is just horribly broken versus certain armies. While things like Eldar and Space Marines shrug as the Wolf player hopes to get lucky, Nid and Necron players cringe as their 200+ point models or strings of Warriors fall into the ground. It is just too good versus certain armies. Drop podding in and insta removing a line of Hive Guard or a Tervigon is just devastating. In general both "characteristics tests" in lieu of of normal wounding and "removed from play" which can circumvent Eternal Warrior are just bad. There is no reason other than "oh yeah, well my guys have a rule that ignores your rule because they are newer".

Nids are still a good list. There are plenty of quality units in that codex. I think people also don't like the fact that it relies on synergy and not "spam best choice on FOC".

Royal House...



And as a polite pro tip, here is a free spell check. Please use it!

http://orangoo.com/spellcheck/

jgrand ur completly right, ,but i played in a ard boyz tournament and all the nids players who ranked spammed 9 hive guard,2-3 trygons and 2-3 tervigons. but yeah vi totally agrre

I wouldn't blame characteristic tests starting with the JotWW. Yes, I realize that was the best example of "broken" removal abilities, but the chaos gift that turns an enemy into a spawn is potentially even more cruel. And it came first-give credit where credit is due. Also, I spammed JotWW once to make a point to my friends-it isn't as good as it seemed. 4 Priests with Jaws...it just isn't quite as good as it sounds. Now, 4 Wolf Lords on thunderwolves...ouch...

@royal house: Please post in complete sentences, pay more attention to correct spelling, and use punctuation. Also, posting in allcaps tends to convey rudeness. Please review the DakkaDakka rules via the link in my signature.

They haven't.

They just made it so you have to have a bit more talent to actually use the list. It's still capable of devastating almost any other list out there. Kinda like Eldar, but instead of being a finesse army it's a synergy army.


Hell, want a far more potent counter?

Guard spamming high AP3 blasts and autocannons against Sisters.

And yet, I've still managed to win through intelligent use of cover and contesting/capping objectives.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Nurgle stuff, any MC in the Daemons Codex.

I'm loving it witht Tau though. My weapons wound Dark Eldar on 2s, their weapons wound me on 4s.

Tyranids have a surprising amount of S5 firepower.

I wouldn't blame characteristic tests starting with the JotWW. Yes, I realize that was the best example of "broken" removal abilities, but the chaos gift that turns an enemy into a spawn is potentially even more cruel. And it came first-give credit where credit is due. Also, I spammed JotWW once to make a point to my friends-it isn't as good as it seemed. 4 Priests with Jaws...it just isn't quite as good as it sounds. Now, 4 Wolf Lords on thunderwolves...ouch...

I'd agree to an extent. I don't see how the Gift of Chaos is worse. The close range required along with it being based on rolling higher than the toughness of the target usually means 6's are needed versus monstrous creatures. Not only that but within 6" you are almost guaranteed to be in range of anti psychic abilities like Shadow of the Warp. Jaws sends the Tervigon to a hole in the ground on a 3+ at 24".

Like I said, Jaws isn't broken across the board. Many armies shrug it off. However, the ones it works well against it really works well against. 4 Priests with Jaws is mediocre against mech Marines and horrible against Eldar and just as mediocre against many others. 4 Priests with Jaws is amazing versus most Tyrannid builds, foot Orks, Necrons, Tau, Nurgle daemons, and foot guard. Not just amazing, pretty much game breaking. Some of these can mech up but others can't.

What I'm saying is that most competitive Nid builds need Tervigons and Hive Guard. Jaws can remove these otherwise hard to take down multi wound T6 monstrous creatures on a 2d6<10 (like a 92% chance) and the opponent rolling a 3+. (66%). Pretty rough. Nothing else can take down those guys as easily. Jaws is incredibly damaging to certain lists, meh against many others.