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Greetings,

In my 2 previous posts (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/322627.page and http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/322001.page), for my first green-steps, I've been adviced to try the Kanz'wall taktik.

What other taktiks exist for greenskins?

- Kanz'wall
- Speed Freaks
- ?

Thank you!

Green tide. Just get a S*** load of boyz with some nobz and swarm the enemy. Because an army can only have so many templates... Even if its not that balanced, often times you can annihilate all of your opponents troops, and just take all the objectives. If they have tanks, just ignore them or put PKs on your nobz. Honestly, as a marine player, if I look across the board at 150 (5 30 man squads) boyz, I will probably just gak myself and quit.

Battlewagon spam or mech up

Battlewagon is basically as many BW as you can take (keep in mind that nobs can take them as dedicated transpots) and try to cover them with KFF meks.

mech up is fairly close to that, but you also take trukk mobs, and alot of them. Usually it works best with 4 or more. The point is to use terrain/KFF to cover them and add to the fact there are so many, they cant all be shot up by the time you hit the lines. This was my first Ork build, but now Im going to be a shooty Ork player, so Ill probably add some killakans in there (so a kanwall of sorts)


Ive also seen Nob only armies. This one Ive seen either kick alot of ass or kick its head kicked in. Ive personally never built a list like that but the possibilities are endless and nobs are just hard as nails

With orks, you absolutely have to make use of force denial, which is how both green tide and kan wall lists work. The bulk of a kan wall is immune to anything S<5 and anti-personnel weapons generally, and shooting at a green tide with lascannons and meltaguns is just wasting ammunition. Since your enemy necessarily has to have both anti-personnel and anti-tank weaponry in his army, building your army such that you can mitigate the effectiveness of one type of fire is critical to ensuring that you survive long enough to get into cc and start krumping heads.

PraetorDave wrote:Green tide. Just get a S*** load of boyz with some nobz and swarm the enemy. Because an army can only have so many templates... Even if its not that balanced, often times you can annihilate all of your opponents troops, and just take all the objectives. If they have tanks, just ignore them or put PKs on your nobz. Honestly, as a marine player, if I look across the board at 150 (5 30 man squads) boyz, I will probably just gak myself and quit.

BAM! ROASTED!
if orks arent good at that i dont know what is.

What MekanobSamael said (quite well, I might add). Green tide and kan wall are not the only two effective builds, of course. Whatever you decide on, there are threepoints that come up in nearly every ork tactics thread: 1) MORE BOYS, 2) Big Mek w/ KFF, and 3) specialize (meaning build fast/mech, shooty, choppy, whatever - just don't take 2 trukks in a Green Tide list and expect them to successfully rush forward like they might in a mech list, screened by wagons and covered by a KFF).

Anyone tried a shooty ork army?

Jubear wrote:Anyone tried a shooty ork army?

Rubbish ballistic skill makes this one difficult to pull off, but it can be done. There have to be a good number (60+) of shoota boyz for it to work. The army capitalizes on its 6-point T4 models and mob rule to make the enemy break first. I apologize, but I don't have a back pocket build. Basically it would include a s***-ton of shootas and lootas. You have to qualify the fact that it's a "shooting" army with the realization that against some armies, you're just going to have to charge.

Shooting D'ork Type 1

HQ

Big Mek, KFF

Big Mek SAG

Elites

Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x15 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba

Troops

Gretchin x19
Shoota Boys x30
Shoota Boys x30
Shoota Boys x30
Shoota Boys x30

Fast attack

3xTwinlinked Rokkit Buggies
3xTwinlinked Rokkit Buggies
3x Twininkierokkithuggies

IIRC that actually under 2500

Has anyone of you already tried a shooting Orks army vs another shooty army race? (Tau, IG, Eldars ...)
Even with a large number of mobs, can you stand their dmg with a static army?

I have fought a shooty ork army with my Tau 1500 points.
As a tau player I had a good force of around 50 firewarriors and a couple hammerheads .

He had I cant even begin to count how many shootas and lootas he had in that army but let me tell you it was a s*** load.

Still I out gunned,maneuvered, ranged and finally out flanked that ork army bearing there shootas down with like 40 pulse rifle shots a time with submunition blasts from the hammerhead.

I done think its a good idea.

My personal list >.> Take Chris's.

Replace the gretchin with a CC dread and the KFF with Zogwort/a warphead.

Fast attack - fill last

Bunkers replace with: one mob of 6 scalpel gitz, one squad off zzapp gunz, replace 3rd with either a transport wagon/kan mob/something armored

The nuance with my build is that its about pairing in sets of two that come from opposite fields of the attack type.
Ie: Zzapp gun and warphead do the same role, gitz and CC dread pair (High armor targets) kan mob/SAG

The other thing to do if you take my MO is you make sure every squad costs about the same. So you have redundancy in both points and roles.

While my MO its kinda nutso... its also lots of fun.

Jubear wrote:Anyone tried a shooty ork army?

Friend used to run one that worked quite well

2 -3x Lootas in Battlewagon with KFF Mek. Basically a bunker that pumped out 30 to 135 S7 shots every turn. Even with orky BS no army likes taking 10 to 45 S7 hits a turn. Usually he did not max the lootas or would only play 2 of them. Add Zagstrukk and two alpha-strike Buzzsaw koptas and it would do wonders. Then tack on as many boyz as you can and perhaps some KK or dreadnought to keep the enemy off your lootawagon bunkers.

He made it work well.

Scalpel gits?


As like any good Ork build, if you go overboard with it, it has a good chance of doing well. Its a fact that shoota boyz do better on foot then slugga boyz. So in a shooty army you would want a crapton of shoota boyz on the ground. Id imagine a KFF mek or two would be a good idea. I personally wouldnt run a SAG mek simply because the lootas your going to take will be laying a LOT of bullets into the enemy, and you can get your anti tank much more reliably from kans/dreds.

I wouldnt stay static either. Id keep moving the line forward, laying down fire. And dont forget that just because shoota boys arnt slugga boyz, doesnt mean they cant assault well. They make up the lack of CC attacks in their shooting. Spread the boyz out as much as you can so they dont take templates so bad. Use the KFF meks to sheild the boyz/kans/dreds as much as possible (I say this because youll have alot of bodies on the table, and tables are only so big, just try your best not to lump them all together or a well placed template will ruin your day)

I dunno the points total, but having a ton of shoota boyz/w pk nobs, kan wall (mostly for shooting but the DCCW will shred faces) dreds behind that for really sticking it to the enemy tanks and lootas behind that vomiting lead at your opponent, that will hurt most armies and rock in alot of games. But as always dont think its a perfect build that will crush all everywhere. No matter how well you build a list, there are going to be another army/game/table set up/mission that your build just doesnt work well in. But I also think that ends up making you a better player, unless you dont learn from your losses (side note, this is basically the idea I have for my Orks, as Im swinging from Trukk mob/Bw mob to a shooty Ork force

Scalpel gitz = 6 flashgitz with painboy, more dakka and cybork. Aka keeping them cheap as chips, mostly alive and taking out elite infantry.

Has anyone had success with a list containing maxed-out Stormboyz, i.e. 3 mobs of 20, one led by Boss Zagstruk? It seems a really cool base for an army, but I'm not at all clear what would be useful in the other slots, or how the army would work tactically.

I've heard people talk about using stormboyz in a Green Tide, running along behind ordinary boyz and then jump-packing forwards when they get into range of the enemy. But given that a stormboy is twice the cost of a normal boy, I don't know whether that's really cost-effective...

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a BattleWagon "Bunker"?

RedizDead wrote:Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a BattleWagon "Bunker"?

A battlewagon you take solely to put 15 lootas in, and never move. They way you're not reliant on terrain, and have a nice AV14 "bunker" to protect your lootas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisCP wrote:
Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x15 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba

Wouldn't the killcannon force you to get a ard case, limiting you to 3 fire points? Meaning only 3 lootas could fire...?? My brother forgot to mail me my book, so I can't double check, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

greenbay924 wrote:

RedizDead wrote:Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a BattleWagon "Bunker"?

A battlewagon you take solely to put 15 lootas in, and never move. They way you're not reliant on terrain, and have a nice AV14 "bunker" to protect your lootas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisCP wrote:
Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x15 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba

Wouldn't the killcannon force you to get a ard case, limiting you to 3 fire points? Meaning only 3 lootas could fire...?? My brother forgot to mail me my book, so I can't double check, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Nope. Doesnt say anything about taking a killkannon and being forced to take ard case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_ferrett wrote:Scalpel gitz = 6 flashgitz with painboy, more dakka and cybork. Aka keeping them cheap as chips, mostly alive and taking out elite infantry.

Thanks for that lol. Id still take more dakka/shootier as the str6 you roll 2s more the time for wounds. I know its usually 3s normally, but you need every wound you can get for the Gitz to be useful.

The usual lists are:
Green Tide (Metric Crap-ton of boyz, with lots of klaws)

Speed Freaks (lots of boys in trukks and bikes)

Biker Swarm (Wazdakka and a biker boss and 8 units of warbikers backed up by biker nobs)

Wagon Wall (5 battle wagons and lots of trukks)

Kan Wall/Dredd Bash (9 killa kans advancing under a KFF to shield the army/5 deff dredds doing the same)

Wall o' Lead (Lots of lootas, shoota boys, buggies, kans/big gunz)

S_P

I also just came up with the "green sea" - a variation on the green tide that involves the usual swarm of boyz and an alpha wave of stormboyz and kommandos to tie-up/distract/knobble the nasty stuff on the way in.

S_P

ChrisCP wrote:Shooting D'ork Type 1

HQ

Big Mek, KFF

Big Mek SAG

Elites

Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x15 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba

Troops

Gretchin x19
Shoota Boys x30
Shoota Boys x30
Shoota Boys x30
Shoota Boys x30

Fast attack

3xTwinlinked Rokkit Buggies
3xTwinlinked Rokkit Buggies
3x Twininkierokkithuggies

IIRC that actually under 2500

I'm getting around 2550 points here.

I run a 2000-point list that I am probably going to need a new name for. "Beastmen of Waaagh" or so. Everything hits hard, everything is absurdly fragile, yet everything is ultimately expendable.

HQ:
Warboss on Bike, w/ Klaw, Bosspole, Kombi-Skorcha: 135 points
Warboss on Bike, w/ Klaw, Bosspole, Kombi-Skorcha: 135 points.

Elites:
9 Lootas: 135 pts.
9 Lootas: 135 pts.
9 Lootas: 135 pts.

Troops:
15 Shoota Boyz: 90 pts
15 Shoota Boyz: 90 pts
3 Nobz, 1 Power Klaw, 85 pts
-Battlewagon with Deffrolla, Ard Case, Big Shoota, Boarding Plank: 135 pts
3 Nobz, 1 Power Klaw, 85 pts
-Battlewagon with Deffrolla, Ard Case, Big Shoota, Boarding Plank: 135 pts

Fast Attack:
3 Warbuggies with Rokkits: 105 pts
3 Warbuggies with Rokkits: 105 pts
2 Deffkoptas, 1 Buzzsaw: 95 pts.

Heavy Support:
Grotzooka Kanz x3: 135 points.
Grotzooka Kanz x3: 135 points.
Battlewagon with Deffrolla, Big Shoota, Kannon, Red Paint Job: 130 pts

Total points: 2000 pts.

Guidelines I wanted to fulfill when writing this list:
-Max number of Loota Slots: Given the choice between 2 units of 15 Lootas, and 3 of 9, I'll take the three of 9. Yes, they're more vulnerable to morale issues but in most armies, the the long-range firepower required to kill them is the same firepower needed to kill vehicles. Place them in cover, and it becomes something like 3 lascannons or 1.5 autocannons to average a dead Loota; the odds generally aren't in the favor of the attacker unless he can get close.
-At least 2 Kan units: Kans are very handy for Orks as a general rule. They're cheap and provide utility. I considered giving them Rokkits, but for the first round or two, they should be running into midfield anyway, rather than playing potshot. I like Grotzookas for the same reason one should like having a Thunderfire cannon; multiple blasts are awesome. Pop a transport with Lootas, finish off the passengers before they can spread out. This actually combines nicely with Warbuggies for a reason detailed below.
-Warbuggies: While Rokkits aren't really useful beyond AV 12, AV 11 is the most common; they can sidesnipe stuff, and help remove *some* of the pressure from the Lootas. They actually don't even *need* Kustom Forcefields a lot of the time, as they have a really low profile and it's pretty easy to grant them cover. Against horde-like armies, the rokkits are mostly useless, but they still have a role in being able to move around and block off movement routes and screening from assault; this and hordes do *not* want to assault them, because no consolidate=Grotzooka fodder. So they are useful mobile interdiction. To a lesser extent, they block off escape routes for Land Raiders, and help channel them into the Deffrollas.
-2-3 Deffrollas: They're the Ork meltagun. They help keep AV 14 honest, and have a high risk-vs-reward element to them. They're relatively tough to kill short of using meltaguns, and count as scoring vehicles. As a rule, the 2 Ard Case ones provide cover to the 3rd, which transports a Boy unit; this unit provides a mobile source of S4 dakka for torrenting specials. Alternately, the open-topped one serves as a Loota bunker.

Final notes:
Boys are mostly there to score, serve as a unit to plug gaps in the main battleline, act as a disposable meatshield to draw powerfists against, or do sniper duty. Seriously; 15 Orks is enough to average 5 wounds on a unit (the potential being much hire with good rolling), which is enough to force saves on the upgrade-models of other small units, and it's a small enough squad size that you can more reliably get most the models in range for shooting. If objective-holding is all I need, they go-to-ground and act like cheaper marines toughness-wise.

The bosses are there either to do Green Torpedo duty, or act as mobile bosspoles ("I can live with this flank collapsing, but I need *these* lootas to hold). For the most part though, I attach them to the Deffkoptas. It brings the unit up to Toughness 6 and gives several T5 ablative wounds, as well as fixing the Deffkopta Leadership issue. And it forces armies to stay in their metal boxes. This trick is known as the Slingshot:

The Ork Slingshot:
You will need:
-A Warboss or two.
-A Deffkopta unit of at least 2 models.
-An opponent running nonvehicle (exception for Walker) units, and Turn 1.

Instructions:
-You deploy the Biker Bosses in an Ork unit, sideways.
-Deffkoptas Scout within 12" of an enemy unit.
-During the movement Phase, you move the Deffkoptas so one of them is within 6" of an enemy, the other is within 15" of one of your Warbosses. That Warboss then rotates 90", then moves into 2" coherency with the closer Deffkopta. Then the second Warboss moves into coherency with *that* Deffkopta.
-Assault on turn 1. You can absorb some losses; the Koptas are a unique wound group, and T5 so nondedicated assault infantry will have issue with it, while you have Leadership 9/Bosspole. You or the enemy will win by a small amount.
-Pile in. With 2 Warbosses contributing to the fight, you'll most likely break the opponent on his turn.
-Enjoy being able to rampage in the enemy lines. The unit is Majority Toughness 6, and acts like a faster yet slightly more fragile Fexstar. Expect some RAWFights about whether the unit is in 50% cover though, due to the Exhaust Clouds from the 2 Bike Bosses.

Space_Potato wrote:The usual lists are:
Green Tide (Metric Crap-ton of boyz, with lots of klaws)

Speed Freaks (lots of boys in trukks and bikes)

Biker Swarm (Wazdakka and a biker boss and 8 units of warbikers backed up by biker nobs)

Wagon Wall (5 battle wagons and lots of trukks)

Kan Wall/Dredd Bash (9 killa kans advancing under a KFF to shield the army/5 deff dredds doing the same)

Wall o' Lead (Lots of lootas, shoota boys, buggies, kans/big gunz)

S_P

I also just came up with the "green sea" - a variation on the green tide that involves the usual swarm of boyz and an alpha wave of stormboyz and kommandos to tie-up/distract/knobble the nasty stuff on the way in.

S_P

This is the one Im planning swinging my boyz into. Well a variation of it anyways. Ill play around with some ideas to see what one I like the most. But most likely itll be that mixed with a kan wall

Do you guys use a Weirdboy sometimes? For me it looks like a big waste of points...

Ive never used a weird boy. Ive heard good things with Zogwort though. His squig ability alone would be pretty badass. But anyone who uses a normal weird boy, I always see them upgrade it to a warphead. Re rolling a bad roll for a power would come in handy

Less the squig ability, more the snakes. Damn I love those snakes.

The snakes is good against really tough MC and the like, but no ignoring armor saves can make that not so useful against MEQs specially their IC/SC units . Thats when the squig comes in though I guess

Hell I think Ive talked myself into trying out old Zoggy now. Maybe Ill stick in in a FlashGits mob or something

Little off topic, but I'm slightly confused here on the topic of KFF. My girlfriend is getting her Orks fired up and is about to start playing for the first time this week, is the KFF on the Big Mek a 5+ cover or 4+ cover save? I thought I've seen people mention it both ways thus far.

5+ for non vehicles 4+ for vehicles.

if your doing a kan wall list than you non vehicles get a 4+ from having to sho0t through the kanz to get at the troops.

bigmeklover wrote:5+ for non vehicles 4+ for vehicles.

if your doing a kan wall list than you non vehicles get a 4+ from having to sho0t through the kanz to get at the troops.

And dont let anyone tell you differently. Phill Kelly, the writer of the codex, has played a game in a white dwarf that actually says he uses the KFF for a 4+ on his trukks, and a 5+ on his boyz. Not to mention its on a GW whats changing in 5th edition booklet. So anyone who says other wise can easily be put down.

KingCracker wrote:

greenbay924 wrote:

RedizDead wrote:Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a BattleWagon "Bunker"?

A battlewagon you take solely to put 15 lootas in, and never move. They way you're not reliant on terrain, and have a nice AV14 "bunker" to protect your lootas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisCP wrote:
Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x11 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba
Lootas x15 BW Bunker AP GR & Kill Kannon & 4 RokkitL. & Lobba

Wouldn't the killcannon force you to get a ard case, limiting you to 3 fire points? Meaning only 3 lootas could fire...?? My brother forgot to mail me my book, so I can't double check, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Nope. Doesnt say anything about taking a killkannon and being forced to take ard case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_ferrett wrote:Scalpel gitz = 6 flashgitz with painboy, more dakka and cybork. Aka keeping them cheap as chips, mostly alive and taking out elite infantry.

Thanks for that lol. Id still take more dakka/shootier as the str6 you roll 2s more the time for wounds. I know its usually 3s normally, but you need every wound you can get for the Gitz to be useful.

But they do cap the vehicle at a capacity of 12, so the one loota unit would be too large. Finally got my book. Good to know about the kill cannon...