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Nevermind

The idea of a Chaos God from which the other Chaos Gods are derived makes no sense.

Slaanesh was borne from the decadence of the Eldar, not from another God.

Xenon, the most poweful element of them all!

You mentioned something about balance?

Well...the fluff doesn't really make sense, honestly. The Chaos Gods are canonically spawned from the emotions of mortals in the Materium, not from some kind of overlord being. You could always change it a little...make him the great Daemon King of Chaos Undivided or something, older and more powerful than even Doombreed. But besides fluff....

Balance? This thing costs as much as a Baneblade, but could take out a whole Titan Legion if done right. Needs to be much more expensive, and maybe take up some Elites slots as well. And at least make it so there's some kind of limit on his movement and weapons. That's honestly the most ridiculous part of his ruleset.

This fluff makes no sense what soever. The rules are convoluted and weird. I'm sorry but this strikes out on a fundamental level.

XEEEEEEEEEEENUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

...Oh, wait, it's Xenon. Whoops, my mistake.

But yeah, the fluff doesn't really make sense in regards to how Chaos Gods are born, and this dude is crazy cheap for what he does. Either moderate his rules or whack up the price to 11*, that's what I say.







*this is a Spinal Tap reference, don't actually make him 11pts.

Changed cost...and also consider the cost of the sacrifice to summon him.

And I think Chaos gods coming from an overlord Chaos god does make sense...Consider Ku'Gath. He's Nurgle's#1...used to be a nurgling til he ate up a whole batch of the most destructive poison ever. Well, the chaos gods were much the same. Little Fury-type (or other if you don't care for Fury just an example) daemons flitting about, until they happen upon a collection of say...the negative energy of the Eldar. They soak it all up and presto!--Demigod. Not much different from being conceived and born of that energy...and actually makes a bit more sense if you ask me.

According to the new Dark Eldar fluff, you're flat out wrong to be frank, and while you're allowed to change it a bit, I do have to point out that GW has flat out stated that the creation of a Chaos god is as follows.

1) Sensation/emotion is felt with sufficient power, creating small swirl of that emotional power in the warp.
2) As the sensations are felt more and more, lots more of those swirls are created. Since like attracts like, the swirls begin to come together and merge, increasing their power.
3) At some point, this 'blob' of energy in the warp reaches a critical mass, and becomes a new Chaos God.
4) New Chaos God does chaos-y things, and grows in power.

That's the official ruling on how Chaos Gods are born....your welcome to change it, but it's like Imperial Guard fighting alongside Necrons in the apoc book. You better have a ing good reason as to why it's happening this way, and not the usual way.

As to the model....much more balanced now. I'd be unsure...but I'd play it. I'm curious as to why it's 969 points....why not just make it 975 or something?

evil numbers are 6 and 9...no good reason beyond that really.

Looks to me like you would only need him to play a game at all.
I'd say more than 969.
Teleporting around (just read, at will), assault, (which he will win), then sweeping advance autowin. Sounds so fair

Well, it highlights why we don't have rules for Chaos Gods, to be fair. They'd flat-out murder everything.

Hmm, I think it odd with all the ott, he only has 6 wounds. Why not go the whole 9 yards and make him 11's, all across the board. Turn him up to 11!

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Hmm, I think it odd with all the ott, he only has 6 wounds. Why not go the whole 9 yards and make him 11's, all across the board. Turn him up to 11!

I felt this to be appropriate.

Im sorry, but that is just INSANELY broken. With 10 Tough 10 wounds, a 2+ invl and always getting a FNP save, you are talking about a model that all 4 of the chaos greater daemons, (Ann'grath, Scabbatherax,...) could fight for 6 turns and not kill. AND, if by some strange twist of fate, they, along with the help of like 12 bloodthirsters and Angron managed to kill Xenon, he blows up and INSTANTLY kills the thousands and thousands of points that were fighting him. Im sorry, but this model is way, WAY too undercosted.
Also, even if this model cost 2000 points, its rules are so broken I doubt that any game you used him in would be any fun for your opponent. Which, is always something to consider in APOC.

What do you mean, "Best Daemons"? The Avatar and Vanilla Chaos Mahreen one are commonly thought to suck execpt under certain conditions. Mainly due to extreme slowness and the ability to be tarpitted. Xenon is grossly Overpowered, Undercosted, and frankly the concept is quite odd.=

No.... just no. This is ridiculously overpowered.

Still, nice to know that he can be destroyed by Gift of Chaos

Oh, btw, I would never let you use this, even if he was your only model on the table. And I had 4k points, and a titan.

Here is a more sensible idea (and this is just off the top of my head folks so be gentle!)

Why not make Abbadon a Daemon Prince of Chaos undivided? below i've also tried to include where I see the gods influencing him

Fluff = "Abbadon is literally about to die, the gods of Chaos intervene in the only way possible, and elevate him to Daemonhood" (this could obviously do with more padding out, but its a plausible start)

Abbadon - 450 Points, takes up 2 HQ slots in a Chaos Space Marine Army, or 3 Heavy Support in a Chaos Daemons army

Type - Monstrous Creature

WS - 8
BS - 6
S - 7
T - 6
W - 5
A - 5
I - 6
Ld - 10
Sv 3+ Inv (Tzeentch)

Special Rules

Eternal Warrior - as per the main rulebook
Fleet (slannesh)
Preferred Enemy against any non vehicle (exc walkers) (Khorne)
Furious Charge
Feel no pain (Nurgle)

"Puppet" - As abbadon is a relatively new Daemon prince, all 4 chaos gods are vying for control of him. If abbadon is wounded at least once in the opposing players turn, Abbadon must take a leadership test on his next turn. If he passes he may act as normal. If he fails, he may not move or assault that turn. If he is already locked in combat he counts as I1, and does not benefit from preferred enemy that turn.

Dra'chyen - Abbadon's sword has melded with him during his transformation into a Daemon, increasing the strength of both significantly. When rolling to wound, rolls of a 6 will ignore any save, including invulnerable saves.

Aura of Intimidation - All friendly units within 12" of Abbadon are Fearless. If abbadon is killed, all friendly units within 12 must take a leadership test at -2 immediately or fall back. If in combat, then the unit is unaffected and will continue to fight as normal.

Does this seem any better?

First of all...6 wounds, not 10.

Second of all, screw Abaddon. I want to make a Chaos DAEMON daemon...not get a Chaos Space Marine hand me down. So if you want to suggest something fine...but make it a daemon through and through, and only available to daemons, and superior to other daemons that non daemon armies get access to...

Why does Avatar suck? Because he seems awesome to me.

And yes he is overpowered. But not undefeatable...and for 1100 points (after you sacrifice 10 other daemon units)with no other hq's, no elites, I can certainly think of 1100 points of stuff in several other armies that could handle him. How about 135 Loota shots, for example?

Most will miss, and the rest will bounce off. Have you seen your own character's stats?
And I say this as a committed Ork nut, by the way.

I don't understand why you need to re-write one of the cornerstones of the settting to get your powerhouse character in.

It would be like you writing an eighth Harry Potter book, where it is suddenly revealed that harry Potter has a young, more awkward brother thhat he never knew about until now, but this brother is actually far better at everything Harry Potter does, steals all his friends and is the only one capable of defeating a new, super-powered Voldemort.

It just smacks of poor integration with the character of the setting. Tone your fluff down, and build into the setting, rather than over it as you are now.

There are plenty of ways into that - minor Warp powers, Greater Daemons making pacts with other gods, a bizarre hybrid Daemon formed from the fused remains of other Daemons, an ancient Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided, a Greater Daemon for the Fury concept (lost souls not claimed by the Chaos Gods) etc etc.

If you want to produce your own fluff, it's worth making sure that the gut reaction from everyone who reads it isn't "well, that makes no sense at all, how silly".



Next, the rules. Really? I understand that att some point everyone goes through a phase of "wouldn't a model with stats that are all 10s be wicked?!", but it's just so unnecessary. Heck, the C'tan have T8, 5 wounds and a 4++, and they can be sickeningly hard to take down. Again, tone your stats down and try to create something that, while powerful, you can fit into a game without the game suddenly becoming "the adventures of UBERUNITNAME".


Finally, I've just got to ask... why? Why are you doing this? It sounds like you just want to set up your god-unit, blow away bucket-fulls of opponents at once and then say "yeah, that was fun". It wouldn't make for much of a game, would it? I'd recommend you dust off a video game of some sort, slap on invincibility, infinite ammo, all guns etc and go to town if that's the experience you're looking for.



I apologise if any of this seems overly harsh - it is not meant to be an attack of any sort. I am merely trying to save you from yourself, by highlighting the truth of what you're proposing.

I would porbably play him in Apoc...but he can't take any other HQ choices or Elites choices. But I'd play him in Apoc only cause I can just Vortex Missile him back to hell (literally) from 3 tables away. Poof! No more threat.

In regular games. No. JUst....No. I found 3++ Termies to be annoying enough to kill.....2++? Jesus man, what is this? The Emperor himself?
Additionally, I have to admit, your points costs really show where you're going with this...you're trying to create a cool unit, and that's admirable. But you're not trying to balance him out. He's a bit more balanced now than he was originally, so props for that, but he's still horribly, horribly broken.

Not to mention the fluff is still way out there and counter to everything that we know about Chaos Gods....if this were fiction, I'd happily call this guy 'Mary Sue'.

It's almost...Yu-Gi-Oh-esque..... 'I sacrifice such and such to summon......stupid super hard guy'

I'm going to create some kind of Kuriboh type of wargear to counter this monstrosity.

Dude, make him more expensive. 1500pts at least, Apoc only.

It also has no synergy whatsoever with a daemon army. Give it some kind of daemonic instability or even something where daemons of the other gods no longer take invulnerable saves as Xenon weakens their own link to the warp.... or some such.

I WAS going to post this yesterday, but Dakka was down.

Ok, the time for being nice and polite about this is over. You FAIL at character design, and here is why(oh, and this is assuming that some scenarios below get past the RIDICLOUS aura of evil rule)

1) 10 Terminators charge this thing. Lets say that 7 survive to attack with powerfists. Since they dont get bonus attacks for charging, thats 14 attacks. On 5's to hit, thats 4/5 hits. They then need SIXES to wound. So lets say thats 1 wound. Which you get a 2+/4+ against. Ridiculous.

2)It is immune to guns strength and lower. Assault cannons would need to rend, but they would be next to useless as well.

3) Aura of evil basically prevents people from moving. So this guy can theoretically decide to pick off squads if and when he likes? ridiculous.

4) If somehow he DID,get into trouble in close combat he can leave and then nuke that unit with the tzeentch or nurgle ranged weapon (which I noticed was an auto hit btw, again cheesy)

5)Pariahs could work against him as warscycthes ignore all saves.... o wait, toughness 10, my bad. Toughness 10? SERIOUSLY? The only reason that the C'tan got T10 was because there was a precedent for it in the wraithlord.

6)Each of his one use skills has the potential to wipe out one unit. Thats liek 4 free kill points before the game has even started. How is that fair?

7) As you seem to be editing your description with each critique that's made, the only thing that has a chance of killing it outright are either vortex grenades or a Shokk Attack Gun. Ridiculous.

8) Regen. Really?

You need some serious lessons in character design my friend - this is going to do nothing but piss people off, which is why I offered the alternative of Daemonic Abbadon as a starting point. Maybe this thread is a troll to see how many players will get annoyed - well if it is I consider myself trolled

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Most will miss, and the rest will bounce off. Have you seen your own character's stats?
And I say this as a committed Ork nut, by the way.

I stand by this. As things are, your character is still insurmountable. There is NO unit in the game (and I mean NO unit) that could come close to damaging this beast, bar the apocalypse units, and even then they'd struggle.
The only thing I could see taking this down? 20+ Terminators.
I can understand you wanting the Daemons to get the most badass daemon of all, but jeezus. This guy is so above and beyond any others that it hurts to look at.

Sacrificial Summoning
Xenon always starts the game in reserve. He may only come out of reserve if a unit of at least 10 models sacrifices themselves to call him. At the beginning of the movement turn, or immediately after they deepstrike, the unit may sacrifice themselves. Remove the unit from the board--they count as a killpoint for the opponent--and place Xenon in the center of the space where the unit presided. He may immediately move, shoot, assault, or take any other action he wishes.

How are you measuring the centre of space where the sacrificed unit once stood?

RAW Controlling players needs to determine the footprint taken up by the sacrificed unit and find the centre, then place the model on the board.

Edit:
min 10 model sacrifice is way too few. I would suggest that since the 5th god feeds off the other 4 chaos gods at least one unit of each god must be sacrificed .

Additionally, that brings something else up. The 'killpoints' you're giving away like candy to try and balance him out? That will only be useful in 1/3 of the games he plays. In the other 2/3 he'll be nuking enemy troops choices left and right, can decide to contest any objective at any time.....Sound fair at all?

As before, I'd play him in Apocalypse. But if I'm playing him in a regular game, I'm going to be taking a Vortex Missile Deathstrike, as that's one of the few things I could see having the potential to kill him.

Edit: Oh, and reading the rules.....you're throwing Apoc templates around like they're nothing too. Can you see nothing unfair about a gigantic chunk of the board, probably within the enemies deployment zone, suddenly becoming impassable?

One thing WTF
Fluff makes no sense
Ability to use all of the 4 chaos god powers
Stupid stat line
More powerful than agron deamon primarch of the world eaters
You've tried to create Arachon of the 40k world and FAILED

"ok so hes not a DP, hes a god, and hes not one of the four that already exist either, hes a superspeshul secret god that no one has ever heard of and hes better than the other four combined and they all think hes cool and come to his parties and i'll call him the chaos emperor!!!11!!"

Seriously? the broken rules you've dreamed up aside, the fluff you wrote is absurd. please respect the existing canon when you write up new stuff, that or don't write at all.