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I'm sure this has been brought up a thousand times before, but why are 'veterans/ aspiring champions' always 15 points extra?

I hate justifying an extra attack for 15 points. I'd rather pay like...3 points Especially now. In 3rd edition, my aspiring champions could take anything they wanted from the amoury, which is almost worth 15 points..But now all they get is a couple crappy options and an additional attack...

I've been playing around with some experimental rules where a veteran upgrade is only three points..And I haven't really noticed a difference in balancing, to be honest.

Thoughts?

Because GW wants you to have to pay for access to wargear choices.

Unless you're a fifth edition codex. In which case you don't. Unless you're Space Wolves. In which case you do.

I don't really see a problem, probably a bad example but lets use the New Dark Eldar codex. For a couple more points you get a squad leader (Sybarite) who gets an extra attack, +1 to the squads LD, and has options for a power weapon, agoniser, poison weapon, and probably the best reason to take him a blast pistol. Now obviously you're not gonna buy everything you can for a squad leader but something like a blast pistol will definitely help you against tanks. Squad leaders aren't meant to be something really special but for some armies they do offer a slight upgrade to your normal units. Their not necessary but their not completely without benefits either.

Yeah, that's exactly the same thing as an aspiring champion...More or less. How many points are you guys paying for your sybarites? I haven't read any part of that codex yet.

Er...Mellisia...What? Are you telling me vanilla marines don't pay extra for their veterans? I don't read other codexii that often. Except tyranids, which don't even have squad leaders. IG don't pay for seargeants either.

Marines get their sergeants as part of the cost of the squad.

Melissia wrote:Because GW wants you to have to pay for access to wargear choices.

Unless you're a fifth edition codex. In which case you don't. Unless you're Space Wolves. In which case you do.

You avatar is far scarier with red eyes...

Imperial (non-space wolf) units tend to have the squad leader bundled into the cost, much the same as non-imperial (or space wolf) units have other cool things bundled in, like Bolter and BP/CCW, for example.

I'm glad you noticed. I figured that would work quite well with a halloween theme.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah, that's exactly the same thing as an aspiring champion...More or less. How many points are you guys paying for your sybarites? I haven't read any part of that codex yet.

Er...Mellisia...What? Are you telling me vanilla marines don't pay extra for their veterans? I don't read other codexii that often. Except tyranids, which don't even have squad leaders. IG don't pay for seargeants either.

Well, vanilla marines don't pay "extra" for a squad leader, special weapon, or heavy weapon. They do pay more per marine than chaos does, have lower LD base, and dont' have close combat weapons. Of course, they also have ATSKNF and Combat Tactics, so it's not all bad.

GW has tried to differentiate the MEQ books

Madness?

You know, I'm not sure I've ever seen that clip in relation to something posted online. I tip my hat to your wit.

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Madness?

That's what I was going for, yes That's what I want to do to aspiring champions and their stupid 15 points!


I noticed as well mellisia....You scare me enough as is.... Just kitten you!

Polonius wrote:You know, I'm not sure I've ever seen that clip in relation to something posted online. I tip my hat to your wit.

But seriously, 15 points for an extra attack is bs.

15pts for an extra attack isn't worth it, at least not unless the attack is awesome. Everbody that could took Terminator Honors or Demonic Mutation in 3rd edition, which gave heroes +1 attack for 15pts.

It's more like paying 40pts for a powerfist, which is often worth it, especially for fearless units that might get stuck fighting a dreadnought or MC some day.

Polonius wrote:15pts for an extra attack isn't worth it, at least not unless the attack is awesome. Everbody that could took Terminator Honors or Demonic Mutation in 3rd edition, which gave heroes +1 attack for 15pts.

It's more like paying 40pts for a powerfist, which is often worth it, especially for fearless units that might get stuck fighting a dreadnought or MC some day.

Really? You really want to pay 40 points on a troops choice for a single powerfist attack? I don't Maybe like 20....I dunno.


I know non-meq players say that we MEQ players complain too much, and they're right...

Yeah, imagine paying 15 points for a veteran who isn't even S4/T4 to gain +1 attack.

If it's a unit that's going to end up in combat, yeah you need the powerfist. Of course, champs have two attacks so they're a little better.

Well, it ain't as bad as 21 points for another attack and no alternate CCW weapon options (I'm looking at you Kroot Shaper, you hunk of garbage >:[ )

At least you can still savour wiping a squad/tieing combat with that hidden Power Fist/Weapon with that extra attack.

Off-Topic- I love the red eye swap you did for your avatar Melissa

200'th post

WHAT THE FETH. Missed my 3000th post by a LOT.

Anyway, that kroot case is awful.

I'd pay 15 points for something like +1 WS or +1 S....

Samus_aran115 wrote:
I'd pay 15 points for something like +1 WS or +1 S....

...or a Klondike Bar?

Only if it counts as pinning when used as a shooting attack

It counts as pinning because everyone's piling on it to grab at it!

Melissia wrote:It counts as pinning because everyone's piling on it to grab at it!

While it's still impacted in their squad member's caved-in skull

Klodike fever.

Khorne: Would you betray the God Emperor of Mankind?

Space Marine: No.

Khorne: Would you betray the God Emperor of Mankind... for a Klondike Bar?

Space Marine: SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

Samus: Generally the veteran/Sgt/Whatever team leader upgrade is not just for the +1 Attack(it is but it isn't); You are also getting the Better Ld, and +1 attack is roughly equivalent to an extra trooper in Close combat(except when assaulting)

It harkens back to 3rd and 4th editions where it was generally the same cost as the base troops, So it let you add 1 trooper in Combat(and for MEQs, pistol and CCW), adds 1 to Ld(unless the unit is fearless, and even then fairly often), gains access to the armory(making, for a price, those extra attacks ignore armor, get an extra shot, or a slew of other abilities)

I do like the way IG do it, where a infantry squad is fifty points. But those sergeants don't have an extra attack, which really makes them worthless

They do get an extra attack since they have a pistol + ccw.

Oh, you're right! Jeez, I forget the simplest things at 3:00 in the morning

uhsdbgfujhdbug

That's basically what I feel like typing.

You could be like orks. We have to pay 10 points for an extra attack, extra wound, and weapon options. Totally a rip.

We ALSO have to pay 15 points if we want an extra attack for our warbosses. Totally not worth it.

EDIT: forgot extra strength on the nob also.