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im thinking of making just Khorne Berserkers as my troops choice, am i being incrediabley stupid?

Short answer is yes, if you took a look at the thread about khorn berserkers being too one dimensional you'll see why.

i was just looking at that thread, so i will add some normal CSM and get a few Zerkers.

Honestly I would encourage you to use only khorne berserkers as models and simple run them out of another codex such as blood angels. Fast rhinos, furious charge and Fnp makes for a very world eaters feel for the army while still allowing you to take the tools you need in order to be successful. It would let you do some conversions as well.

It can be done. You just need to play smart.

I would do it the other way round. If you want Khorne, play Khorne with some scoring-CSM Support. This works very well. But main core CSM with some Khornies works too.

The only kind of Cult Marines I would not recommend are Thousand Sons. But even these can be useful sometimes, they are just so damn expensive...

My advice:

1. Support them with DP's and Termis.

2. Hope to the Emperor that your opponent doesn't have any fast vehicles.

3. Dozer Blades + Forests = moderately tough rhinos.

Yeah dude don't listen to Drum Machine, he is just ants at a picnic. If you want to do a full World Eaters army then do it! I recommend also getting DP's, Defilers, and Dreads for more target saturation.

Somethin like this-

DP, Wings
Dp, Wings

8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino
8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino
8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino

Dread, 2 DCCws
Dread, 2 DCCws
Dread, 2 DCCws

Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC
Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC
Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC

Comes out at 1700~ so just add or subtract zerkers to fit.

This probably won't win a GT anytime soon, but your guaranteed to make someone have a really bad day with this list.

odorofdeath wrote:Yeah dude don't listen to Drum Machine, he is just ants at a picnic. If you want to do a full World Eaters army then do it! I recommend also getting DP's, Defilers, and Dreads for more target saturation.

Somethin like this-

DP, Wings
Dp, Wings

8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino
8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino
8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino

Dread, 2 DCCws
Dread, 2 DCCws
Dread, 2 DCCws

Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC
Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC
Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC

Comes out at 1700~ so just add or subtract zerkers to fit.

This probably won't win a GT anytime soon, but your guaranteed to make someone have a really bad day with this list.

Less Dreads more zerkers - IMO

Eh maybe but more zerkers equals more rhinos equals more big guns shooting at said rhino. With 3 they are still a large mobile threat, but they have to make difficult (hopefully damned-if-i-do, damned-if-i-dont) decisions about taget priority with 8 big, scary mosters breathing down their necks.

One more gang would bring it up to 2,000. Alternatively, you could throw a few more zerks into each squad.

Also, I'd be to replace the Defilers' RAC with HF, so that you've got one weapon for far away and one weapon for close up, but that's just a preference thing.

why not use bikes?!?! give them icon of khorne and powerfist

i will probably go with just zerkers as my troops and if that doesn't work out i will throw in a few CSM. the only problem now if finding a good paint sceam (bad spelling), for my deliers. I probably wonk get any heavy tanks just to keep my points cost down and just get deffys w/ H. Flamer and CC weapon.

GamzaTheChaos wrote:why not use bikes?!?! give them icon of khorne and powerfist

Why? Because it's not 'PURE' World Eaters.

The only thing allowed are Zerkers...everything else is either MoK Lords, Kharn, MoK Princes, and various vehicles.
They are one-dimensional in a list like this and therefore suffer 'rock, paper, scissors' issues.

I remember going up against Mech Zerker Spam with my bikers at 1500 it was horrible for my opponent where I dictated the whole fight because I could stay out of reach.

They are a support option that requires support in a sort of synergistical way, there is none when it's all the same.

You're problem will be mech.

I would mix in MoK enhanced marines with zerkers on a 1 to 1 ratio, 1 unit of Khorne zerkers for 1 unit of enhanced CSM with the mark of Khorne. The best part about CSM with mark of Khorne is they can be modeled with Khorne Beserkers, or kit bashed with a mix of CSM and zerker bits. Buy Fabius Bile in your army, enchance your CSM squads with MoK, give the squad 2 melta guns, and the sergeant a power fist and combi melta.

Give every Rhino a combi melta.

For every pair of squads 1 zerker + 1 CSM you will have 2 melta guns and 3 combi meltas.

For fluff reasons I would not actually field Fabius Bile's model as he is actually a member of the Emperor's Children, but you could instead just give a Khorne HQ Character his backpack. It's perfectly within the fluff of the world eaters to mix in steroid enhanced monsters along with regular Khorne Zerkers. Bile's backpack is a pretty cool bit.

odorofdeath wrote:Yeah dude don't listen to Drum Machine, he is just ants at a picnic. If you want to do a full World Eaters army then do it! I recommend also getting DP's, Defilers, and Dreads for more target saturation.

Somethin like this-

DP, Wings
Dp, Wings

8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino
8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino
8x Zerkers, Fist, Rhino

Dread, 2 DCCws
Dread, 2 DCCws
Dread, 2 DCCws

Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC
Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC
Defiler, 3x DCCw, RAC

Comes out at 1700~ so just add or subtract zerkers to fit.

This probably won't win a GT anytime soon, but your guaranteed to make someone have a really bad day with this list.

It's bad advice like this that make people end up leaving the game and driving away players for losing all the time. Don't buy all the stuff to make a terrible army and then hate it. If you know it's terrible that's one thing but if you actually want to win on a consistent basis then you need to understand what you're doing.

That's the problem with asking advice here sometimes, there are people who will say anything at all is "usable" but building an army out of crap will just leave you with crap. If you like the fluff, if you're doing a campaign, if you've got really cool models then go nuts, just understand what you're getting into and don't follow advice like the above without first understanding you won't win games against serious armies.

Well MrDrumMachine, I don't know about your meta, but the list above does place well and is one of those 'Named' lists for chaos. Along the lines of 'ChaosZilla'... though I personally don't like the list because I don't associate walkers with MC's.

Anyway, I think you are over reacting to his post.
I can understand your rationale, but odorofdeath is putting down a viable build.

In addition, Tactics doesn't always means: how do I rape my opponent then and there on the table.

There can be thought experiments and making the most out of what one owns.
Not everyone has access to all the models or the funds to overhaul an army, or are just looking to maximize productivity working with a handicap they already know.

Sanctjud wrote:Well MrDrumMachine, I don't know about your meta, but the list above does place well and is one of those 'Named' lists for chaos. Along the lines of 'ChaosZilla'... though I personally don't like the list because I don't associate walkers with MC's.

Anyway, I think you are over reacting to his post.
I can understand your rationale, but odorofdeath is putting down a viable build.

In addition, Tactics doesn't always means: how do I rape my opponent then and there on the table.

There can be thought experiments and making the most out of what one owns.
Not everyone has access to all the models or the funds to overhaul an army, or are just looking to maximize productivity working with a handicap they already know.

I know the list and I've faced it and every time it makes me it's so boring. At 2000 points the people I've faced have added in 2 termicide units and some other stuff and it still doesn't cut it. With DE now out I can only see it getting even worse for chaos.

I don't like seeing players walk away from such an awesome game because of bad advice and feeling like they wasted a ton of money so advise other potential players away from playing because of a bad experience like losing against almost any balanced list run by a decent player.

Can this kind of list be really cool on the table top and fun in a fluffy environment? Of course, it just lacks in so many areas that new players coming here have to understand what they're getting into. I mean come on, even as a named build it has 6 AV12 hulls and 3 -5 AV11 hulls, is slow except for the daemon princes and when you compare fighting it to an IG list that throws down 10+ av 12-14 hulls? I would rather face "ChaosZilla" any day in a tournament.

I love the idea of chaos and the background and the awesome that used to be the legions and how you really could field a fluffy and GOOD list. This codex is just so bad for doing it I can't in good conscience do anything other than advise him to do something that would ensure a better win/loss ration for him UNLESS he asked a question like "What are some really cool ideas for a fun army?".

And really, viable in what way? Killing rhinos to get rid of the cover for dreads is hard now? There's not even a guarantee that the dreads will do something useful in a turn.

Making the most of what one owns IS a good thing but the impression I got was that the OP was thinking about BUYING the stuff to make the army and I would much rather have him play for a decade and have fun than a year or 2 and hate it.

Honestly- Khorne armies are down this edition- but not out. U can use lesser daemons to hold objectives (people gripe about lesser daemons sucking all the time, but they've won several games for me- I think they're awesome). Either use them in smaller squads for objective holding or mob squads for intimidation factor/ overwhelming numbers factor.

I don't like putting berzerkers in rhinos because i think it really restricts them tactically (rhinos get popped really easily then you have a lot of points extremely vulnerable to fire in the open). Its possible for berzerkers in rhinos to work if your army build is really coherent, but you'd also have to accept the fact that some games will leave you really pissed that your berzerkers didn't even touch any unit. Land raiders/predators (lascannon sponsons) are a solid build for berzerkers. You need hvy support that can reliably take down tanks and large threats to ur transports (skimmers can really mess up a lot of chaos lists that dont use predators or havocs).

Thanks for the comments, i was looking at the forge world Khorne teminator champion and the World Eaters termintor conversion pack and i thought it would be a good idea and it would look cool to have a World Eaters theamed army. I have been playing 40K for over 4 years and have spent over £400 on 7 different armies and have yet to stick to a single one. The new dark eldar models look ausome but god do they look hard to paint, what new rules have changed to make them so good?

@MrDrumMachine:
The list is rather fast, and not just the Princes.
Fleet makes a big difference on the Defilers and even Dreads can get fleet at times.

@Bertimismaximus:
Rhinos are good generally. Even for combat units. Else they would be footslogging, much worse.
You don't have that many raiders and they are a pretty penny for so little.

tko75 wrote:Thanks for the comments, i was looking at the forge world Khorne teminator champion and the World Eaters termintor conversion pack and i thought it would be a good idea and it would look cool to have a World Eaters theamed army. I have been playing 40K for over 4 years and have spent over £400 on 7 different armies and have yet to stick to a single one. The new dark eldar models look ausome but god do they look hard to paint, what new rules have changed to make them so good?

The forgeworld stuff is awesome looking as usual and that stuff makes into a very awesome looking army and if you're really just in it for the hobby, go nuts because it will look really cool. Otherwise, it's not a very good idea IMO from any sort of competitive standpoint but that's more or less the whole chaos codex these days.

DE have a TON of new rules and are completely revamped, I would suggest taking a read through http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326407.page for some idea on what the new dark eldar have become.

I wasnt really suggesting that he go out and buy a bunch of junk... I was just trying to demonstrate a sample "Khorney" list that I have played and enjoyed in the past. I apologize if thats how it came out; and I apologize to you as well, I just get tired of people playing the same old CSM lists cause they're afraid to experiment. I know its not super competitive, but I said that in my post. I was glad someone wanted to try something different than "Plagues, Lash Sorc and Oblits". Not to knock that type of list; its certainly powerful and fun to get your grubby lil' hands on the other guys stuff . But a little variety never hurt anyone, especially the new guy

I'm completly new to Choas so its not really experermenting, more me stumbling onto something that looks cool and thinking it would work. I now realise that without good ranged support they would get shot to pieces by my brother who plays with Tau. If any body has any ideas on army builds i would be happy to hear them.

tko75 wrote:im thinking of making just Khorne Berserkers as my troops choice, am i being incrediabley stupid?

no.... you can get an ok army out of it. combine them with khorne demons and you can even get a really good army out of it. you'll usually (not always) win in close combat at your flgs with this army but opponents who have better mobility and long range shooting than you do (eldar for instance) will pretty regularly own you unless you take some preventative measures beforehand.

Small note:
'Khorne' Daemons for CSM also mean 'Lesser' Daemons, as in there is no flavor

well I mean mix the codices. cult armies get respect. people will let you do it. if they complain just play one or the other. they have the right to object, but most people wont, at least in my experience. When I bring a csm/demons combined army I bring my vulkan army too. that way if they complain they end up facing something thats strictly legal but much, much more difficult to play against. Which is my little petty revenge for messing with a fluffy army I guess...

I've actually looked into Chaos armies and read the dex and to be quite honest, I fail to see what the fuss is. I can find some horrific combinations in there that can be competitive, but maybe that's just me.

And yes I did consider total-Khorne armies. One that I drafted up came to 1500pts and involved 1-2 defilers, Kharn, possibly some possessed or chaos termis, maybe a deamon prince, and a huge amount of zerkers. Each squad has a skull champion with melta bombs and a power weapon. Sounded good in my head at the time.

Suggesting something completely illegal with respect to RAW now?
That's new!

So how do you work out summoning?
Do they follow deamon deamon rules?
What about FoC slots and such?

its just a game. if the opponent is ok with it then whats the problem?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
well I'd prefer to have demons come off of the icons but people tend to balk at that, so I go to normal deployment via demonic assault.

what do you mean by follow demon demon rules?

both books share a single FOC chart.

thats just the way I've worked it out with my friends. YMMV