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Trying to nail down exactly how this works because well.. I want to make sure I'm not cheating or any such thing.

So, just to run through the requirements.. You pick a spot, roll to scatter and if you roll a scatter, roll 2d6 and scatter that far. Now, here's where I get unsure. Obviously if it lands on what has been designated as impassible terrain or an enemy(or friendly) unit, it lowers the scatter amount to 1 inch from that. However, what happens if it lands in area terrain or difficult terrain? Does it have a mishap? (Seems like it was built to avoid mishaps except maybe scattering off the table) so that's where I get unclear. If someone could help clear that up for me would be helpful

Difficult terrain does not cause a mishap. It does count as dangerous though so roll to see if the pod takes a wound.

Scattering off the table will cause a mishap.

ETA see deep strike mishaps on P95

Just to be clear: if the spore pod ends up landing in difficult terrain that terrain is treated as dangerous and it must take a dangerous terrain test being wounded if it fails the test. As it has three wounds, this is a minor problem. It gets no save against this wound.

Ok so the only true mishap is scattering off the edge of the table, otherwise worst case scenario is taking a wound. Cool thanks

Well you COULD aim it to land on impassable terrain, such as other models, and a "hit" would therefore cause a mishap (as you cannot reduce scatter when you have not scattered at al - that would be increasing the scatter!) but that requires less than intelligent tactics...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Well you COULD aim it to land on impassable terrain, such as other models, and a "hit" would therefore cause a mishap (as you cannot reduce scatter when you have not scattered at al - that would be increasing the scatter!) but that requires less than intelligent tactics...

No. The mycetic spore cannot mishap unless it goes off the table. What you're saying about increasing the scatter matters not even a little bit. Since the spore can't deploy within 1" of an enemy model or impassable terrain, rolling a hit for trying to do so still is denied by the spore's rules. You still have to move the spore so that it ends up 1" from enemy models, or right up against the border of the terrain.
Spore's don't follow the general rules for deepstriking as per the BRB. The spore has its own special rule that prevents it from mishapping, as well as special rules for how the units arrive. There is no making a circle of troops around the spore, for instance.
As for choosing to try and deepstrike on top of another unit being "less than intelligent", consider this: If you tried to deepstrike on top of another unit that just deepstruck and then shot, you would be trying to deepstrike on top of what might be a perfect circle of troops. Unless there was a gap in the circle that didn't have a troop there (making that a shorter radius out of a near circular object), the spore's owner could choose which direction outward from the center of the circle of troops the spore would be moved to. That would actually increase the Tyranid player's tactical options, making it a "smart move".

I understand the idea behind what you're saying but even a 'hit' on the scatter dice is still a scatter. You're 'scattering' zero inches, but it is still called the scatter dice for a reason.

The rules tell you to reduce the scatter to avoid the mishap. This would restrict you from adding to the scatter to avoid mishap.

Doomthumbs wrote:
I understand the idea behind what you're saying but even a 'hit' on the scatter dice is still a scatter. You're 'scattering' zero inches, but it is still called the scatter dice for a reason.

so if a hit is a 0 inch scatter and you aimed on top of impassable terrain. How do you REDUCE the scatter to avoid the obstacle. If you move the pod to avoid the obstacle you are increasing scatter, which is not allowed within the SPOD rules.

Doomthumbs wrote:consider this: If you tried to deepstrike on top of another unit that just deepstruck and then shot, you would be trying to deepstrike on top of what might be a perfect circle of troops. Unless there was a gap in the circle that didn't have a troop there (making that a shorter radius out of a near circular object), the spore's owner could choose which direction outward from the center of the circle of troops the spore would be moved to. That would actually increase the Tyranid player's tactical options, making it a "smart move".

The "hit" facings of the scatter die have little arrows on them that tell you which direction to scatter when you have something that must scatter some distance even when a "hit" is rolled. I think Master of Ordnance has this feature on his bombardment. So even in your hypothetical a "hit" would still be shown what direction in which to scatter. I know it's irrelevant since your basic premise is flawed, but I wanted to point it out anyway.

Nope, rules say "reduce the scatter by the minimum required to avoid the obstacle."
You still need to avoid the obstacle, is the main point of that. Very specific about Impassible (not difficult, which counts as dangerous to deep strikers, or dangerous, which counts as dangerous to everyone) terrain, or other models, friend or foe.

Not to be a math-hole, but you could reduce the distance by a negative number, if that makes you happy. Zero scatter minus a negative three inches or so. Thats still reducing the scatter, not adding, and avoids the other unit or impassable terrain.


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Arschbombe wrote:The "hit" facings of the scatter die have little arrows on them that tell you which direction to scatter when you have something that must scatter some distance even when a "hit" is rolled. I think Master of Ordnance has this feature on his bombardment. So even in your hypothetical a "hit" would still be shown what direction in which to scatter. I know it's irrelevant since your basic premise is flawed, but I wanted to pont it out anyway.

Yes, but the spore doesn't have a rule saying to use that arrow. Nor is the spore a master of Ordinance.

It still says to "REDUCE scatter." You cannot reduce a 0, even if you go the math route and say its negative you have no way to move negative inches. Moving in any direction is still positive movement.

Try and walk negative 5 feet.

Doomthumbs wrote:Nope, rules say "reduce the scatter by the minimum required to avoid the obstacle."
You still need to avoid the obstacle, is the main point of that. Very specific about Impassible (not difficult, which counts as dangerous to deep strikers, or dangerous, which counts as dangerous to everyone) terrain, or other models, friend or foe.

Not to be a math-hole, but you could reduce the distance by a negative number, if that makes you happy. Zero scatter minus a negative three inches or so. Thats still reducing the scatter, not adding, and avoids the other unit or impassable terrain.

If we were discussing general math, subtracting a negative will be addition--in that regard you are correct.
To reduce, however, cannot result in a large amount than it started with.

Ok, I understand "reduce".

What about "By the minimum distance to avoid the obstacle"?

Rule says you need to avoid it.

The rules say you need to avoid it by reducing your scatter.

If you cannot do that then you cannot avoid it.

But that's in a "you're being ridiculous" scenario ONLY.

Yes, you cannot reduce the scatter if its a zero scatter without moving some extra inches. But the deep strike rules say that you can't try and land in impassible terrain.

Doomthumbs wrote:But that's in a "you're being ridiculous" scenario ONLY.

Yes. You should simply place the spod safely and avoid the issue.

That said, people do make mistakes, and in this case the rules allow that mistake and its reprocussions.

Doomthumbs wrote:But that's in a "you're being ridiculous" scenario ONLY.

Yes, you cannot reduce the scatter if its a zero scatter without moving some extra inches. But the deep strike rules say that you can't try and land in impassible terrain.

Actually DS says nothing about that at all. It specificaly states ANYWHERE on the table - including impassable terrain.

You cannot satisfy the rule if you try to increase the scatter, as the rule requires you to reduce the scatter to avoid a mishap. If you cannot reduce the scatter, at all, in order to reduce the mishap you still mishap.

Deep strike rules say that before you even roll the scatter die you place the deepstriking model on the table.

Since you can't place the model within 1" of enemy units or on top of you own units (that one's basic physics unless you've converted a genestealer "Atlas" to try and hold up the spore or something), That rule precludes any kind of trying to do what you're talking about. There isn't a rule that allows you to even try to do that.


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To clarify, Say I wanted to put my spore in the middle of your troops. I would have to place it there before any scatter die got rolled. There isn't a rule for how or where you would move the models in the way TO.
So come on.

Doomthumbs wrote: I would have to place it there before any scatter die got rolled. There isn't a rule for how or where you would move the models in the way TO.

Because they do not move--see Mawlocks.

Doomthumbs wrote:Deep strike rules say that before you even roll the scatter die you place the deepstriking model on the table.

Since you can't place the model within 1" of enemy units or on top of you own units (that one's basic physics unless you've converted a genestealer "Atlas" to try and hold up the spore or something), That rule precludes any kind of trying to do what you're talking about. There isn't a rule that allows you to even try to do that.


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To clarify, Say I wanted to put my spore in the middle of your troops. I would have to place it there before any scatter die got rolled. There isn't a rule for how or where you would move the models in the way TO.
So come on.

But then what about the Mawloc? Everyone I've seen assumes you can deep strike right onto an enemy squad to inflict damage on them. By your interpretation, that wouldn't be allowed.

Edit: Ninja'd! That's what I get for double checking his spelling before posting. But, I did spell it correctly, unlike kirsanth

DT - except it states you can place the model ANYWHERE on the table. ANYWHERE = ANYWHERE.

So yes, you can place it to land directly on models. For example the Mawloc does *exactly* that.

Grakmar wrote:Everyone I've seen assumes you can deep strike right onto an enemy squad to inflict damage on them.
Edit: Ninja'd! That's what I get for double checking his spelling before posting. But, I did spell it correctly, unlike kirsanth :-P

Oops.
An extra "k".

I was editing it when I saw your post.

I am off this morning.

Also, Mawlocs it is not an assumption any more--GW said they meant it to work like that every time it is asked.
Older Spore Mines, current Mawlocs (sans K!!!), etc.

Haha ok, 4 posts saying basically "What about the Mawloc?" Ok, what ABOUT the Mawloc?

The Mawloc has a rule that specifically states that it does not roll on the mishap table. It says you put the large blast over the units hit. This is to ensure uniform size of this special attack, and not using the Mawloc's base size. Models that are still alive have to move out of the way. Then the Mawloc gets put on the table.

Since the spore doesn't have a rule saying when and how the models are moved, you still can't place the spore on the table and then go about deepstriking.

Doomthumbs wrote:The Mawloc has a rule that specifically states that it does not roll on the mishap table

No it doesn't.

It deepstrikes normally. The blast occurs after it resolves the DS.

Sigh. Yes, yes you can.

Anywhere = Anywhere. Deepstriking is NOT movement, it simply counts as movement *once* you have resolved it.

You are entirely, 100% within the rules allowed to place either a Spod or a DPod on top of impassable terrain, which includes other models. If you roll a "hit" you will then mishap.

"Replace the large blast template (marker) with the Mawloc."

Seems like what you've said is inaccurate.



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Nos- I'm referring to the rule for deepstrike in the BRB where it says you physically put the model on the table before rolling anything. How again do you work out moving enemy models out of the way again?

I could do without the sighing.

And it is still entirely irrelevant, as the model = marker until AFTER you resolve the deepstrike.

Whether you use a model or a blast marker, until you resolve the DS, which includes the scatter, when the unit has then arrived.

If you are seriosuly trying to claim it is movement (which is when the restriction on 1" comes in) then i presume you take Dangerous Terrain tests if a model scatters through Difficult Terrain?

If not you are being inconsistent.


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Replace "model" with "impassable terrain" (as you are told they are exactly the same)

If you claim you cannot place them on impassable terrain as you have to place it on the table, then you also can never deepstrike into buildings (explicitly allowed)

So your premise is false,. You are reading table as just table surface, not allowing any terrain to be in the way.

Mawloc's rule is the blast marker never touches the table. you mark where you want it, but it hovers over the units. Spore has to be laced on the table before any deepstrike moves get made. Sorry.

Also,
I'm reading it as "They may not deep strike into a transport vehicle or a building"
Ruined buildings? Ground floor. Not on top of the mostly blown apart wall.

You're kinda just making things up to suit your argument.


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I'll also ask again how you would go about moving the models out of the way when I put the spore on the table before rolling deepstrike. I would say you can't, short of crushing something.

Riiight.

So the part about you assuming you can only place models on the flat, terrainless surface didnt hit home?

By your reckoning placing it on the ground floor of a building is illegal, as it is not being placed ont eh table - it is placed on the ruin ON the table.

Or, you realise that isnt what is meant, and that you can place it on terrain. Terrain includes impassable terrain, which includes models. So no need to move them out of the way.

You are the one making rules up at every turn. After having your "I can reduce by negative inches" attempt debunked, you are now attempting to state you may only DS onto plain board surface, which is also making up rules.

TFTD takes place after deepstrike is resolved. Still.

Being placed anywhere on the table precludes inside a building or transport--as neither of those places is on the table.

Only appearing in the lowest level of ruins is, in fact, a bona fide restriction (Note that it is actually mentioned!). However, the model can be placed higher before resolving the DS.

So you are asserting that there are restriction that are not listed in the list of restrictions but you show where they are in the rules?

Despite the FAQs continually agreeing that it is viable to DS on top of models.

Editing to add:
Since you seem keen on saying that on top of models is not on the table, does that also mean all blast weapons auto-miss?
They are off the (top) edge of the table every time. . . .