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DT has a valid point - WMS is optional.

What he doesn't seem to get, though, is that if you don't agree to use it then you can't place the model there - it doesn't give you permission to make something up to cover the situation.

Scott-S6 wrote:DT has a valid point - WMS is optional.

What he doesn't seem to get, though, is that if you don't agree to use it then you can't place the model there - it doesn't give you permission to make something up to cover the situation.

He would have a valid point if his argument was whether or not WMS was optional. He is argument is that you are not allowed to place models onto models at all during deepstriking which WMS shows is completely valid and gives an option for placing models on models, but not really placing them there.

Ok, again, I admit that I misspoke when I said that reserves happened before the movement phase. And again, my retraction is covered in the exchange between Melchiour and I.

At the risk of repeating myself in order to get a point across (which only Scott-S6 seems to get), pg 95 BRB 2nd Paragraph first sentence. Says you must physically place the deepstriking model on the table. Then roll dice to see where the model in the position you chose actually ends up. If you decide you want to place it inside impassible terrain (which no rule lets you do), and that impassable terrain is in fact not terrain but a model, where do you physically place the spore pod on the table?
Scott, take it from here.

Scott-S6 wrote:
In such a situation there are three options:
1. Agree to use WMS
2. Place the spod somewhere else
3. Break the rules and move the models under the spod out of the way. (not really an option but I thought I'd mention it for completeness)

As with all WMS scenarios, you either agree to use WMS or you place the model somewhere else. You cannot take a voluntary action where the only outcome is breaking a rule.

My whole argument is #2 here. I don't agree to WMS and I'm not going to let you move models, which breaks a rule. Just put it someplace else. You MUST put the model on the table though, as stated in the first sentence of the second paragraph on pg 95 of the BRB. You cannot take a voluntary action where the only outcome is breaking a rule. Exactly. So putting the spore's intended deepstrike position inside impassable terrain (of any kind) breaks a rule. So just please, please put it somewhere else.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Doomthumbs wrote:Why else specify they can't move during the movement phase?

Where, exactly, does it say that?

Models that deepstrike can never move or assault, unless they have a rule saying otherwise. Pg 95 BRB.

Scott-S6 wrote:
There is absolutely nothing to support moving models aside. If models have to be moved aside to make room for the spod then why not mountains? Either quote some rules to back that up or drop that point.

I don't think I have to. You just said it for me. There is absolutely nothing that would allow for anything other than "putting the model someplace else" as you stated in point two above. I've never said that this was a solution or how it happened, only that it was impossible to move the other models because there IS NO RULE FOR THAT.

nosferatu1001 wrote:DT - they are entirely , 100% the SAME situation: they are BOTH impassable terrain. NOthing else matters.

While it IS the same situation in that you just can't do it without my WMS permission, it is NOT the same in that models are potentially crushable peices of plastic or metal. If I ever play you, I'm going to quote your comments in this thread as WMS permission as I slam my 6 pound spore on your models. I will also be indecisive as to exactly where in your formation I want the spore to come down again and again.

Doomthumbs wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Doomthumbs wrote:Why else specify they can't move during the movement phase?

Where, exactly, does it say that?

Models that deepstrike can never move or assault, unless they have a rule saying otherwise. Pg 95 BRB.

Your original quote appeared to be about reserves generally. Units coming on from reserve can move in the movement phase (they move onto the table). Not moving is specified for deepstrikers because they would, otherwise, be able to deepstrike and then make a normal move.

DT - really? Your argument has devolved to "I will just smash your models"?

In addition: you are told to place it on the table. Placing it on impassable terrain is still placing it on the table. Rule not broken.

Page 95 tells you it may not move any further that turn, not that it may not move. Please, for the final time of asking - STOP dropping context. Or at least just quote the actual rule, rather than your interpretation.

So, to summarise: placing the model that is marking where you WANT the unit to turn up you can place it on any part of the table you wish, including on top of other models. No need to move models out the way, no need to be inconsistent in treatement of terrain, nothing.

Simple, fully supported by the rules. Houserule if you want, but thats all it is.

The optional part of WMS is approximation of the model's location.

If you disagree to using it, I am allowed to place my model in on top of the terain (your models).

It does not require the opponent's permission to place the model in a precarious place--only to leave it in a safer location and measure from its literal.

To put it another way, WMS does not give you permission to disallow your opponent from placing his model in a legal way--it allows you to be polite and make it simple to do so.

I think this has gone about as far as its going to and remain in any way useful.

If in doubt about exactly how deep striking placement occurs, discuss it with your opponent before the game.

Moving on.