What happened in the future

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**kravus master of Horus**

Sorry this is the worst question ever but what heppened to all the tech. This is forty thousand years into the future and everything is gothic, where's all the hover cars and iRobots. Did they lose the tech?

**purplefood**

kravus master of Horus wrote:Sorry this is the worst question ever but what heppened to all the tech. This is forty thousand years into the future and everything is gothic, where's all the hover cars and iRobots. Did they lose the tech?

Everything went really good and really high tech and then some bad stuff happened (Loads of wrap storms etc) so it was basically all lost. Although enough has been found to give them what they have now.

**BluntmanDC**

They did have irobots (the iron men) they rebeled and nearly destroyed humanity.

The main answer to the question is the age of stife happened.

They did have hover vehicules (well more than they have now) but the horus heresy happened and broke the IoM, even in the 41st millenium they are still trying to fix the damage.

**kravus master of Horus**

And why is it that nobody knows how o replace old tech or remake it?

**Mr Nobody**

Some of that technology has been deemed dangerous, such as AI's. The imperium is much more carful when it comes to advances in technology and a very phobic of bringing back their ancient technology.

**BluntmanDC**

kravus master of Horus wrote:And why is it that nobody knows how o replace old tech or remake it?

either its been shown to be a bad idea to recreate it (AI leads to AI rebellion), or other tech has been lost due to the loss of the standard template for it (during the dark age of technology every world had and expedition had a standard templete machine that had methods for making anything from farming tools to rhinos with the available resources). these where lost during the age of strife, and are what the techpriests of mars are always trying to find.

the technology that was lost during the heresy hasn't been remade due to the state of the IoM, its fear of change and the fact that the emperor is no longer experimenting.

**vodo40k**

kravus master of Horus wrote:And why is it that nobody knows how o replace old tech or remake it?

This is due to the stigma and superstition of the Mechanicum. Reverse engineering or experimenting with new machines is seen as Heresy by the Mechaniucum. The only way the imperium get new tech is by discovering old STCs which essentially make themselves so the Mechanicum regard them as sacred.

**Elector**

Put it this way, for thousands of year all the planets humanity had colonized were completely isolated and suffered major disasters, reducing the level of knowledge of humanity down to the Dark Ages essentially. The machines that held all of humanity's knowledge up until the end of the Dark Age of Technology were called Standard Template Constructs (STC) which were normally held on each planet prior to the Age of Strife to make the tech from one planet interchangeable with another planet's tech. With the Age of Strife, just about all known STC's were lost. This is comparable to losing your hard drive, if your hard drive contained an irreplaceable compilation of humanity's knowledge which you could not feasibly memorize.

The Mechanicum is always searching for a whole STC (currently used tech is from recovered pages from an STC) as it would allow them to re-create all lost technology and bring humanity back to their prime. I bet it would even let them make more SM than the current number of gene-seeds allow as they would be able to create more, fix the failing Astronomicon, and countless other things, such as new Titans.

**purplefood**

Elector wrote:Put it this way, for thousands of year all the planets humanity had colonized were completely isolated and suffered major disasters, reducing the level of knowledge of humanity down to the Dark Ages essentially. The machines that held all of humanity's knowledge up until the end of the Dark Age of Technology were called Standard Template Constructs (STC) which were normally held on each planet prior to the Age of Strife to make the tech from one planet interchangeable with another planet's tech. With the Age of Strife, just about all known STC's were lost. This is comparable to losing your hard drive, if your hard drive contained an irreplaceable compilation of humanity's knowledge which you could not feasibly memorize.

The Mechanicum is always searching for a whole STC (currently used tech is from recovered pages from an STC) as it would allow them to re-create all lost technology and bring humanity back to their prime. I bet it would even let them make more SM than the current number of gene-seeds allow as they would be able to create more, fix the failing Astronomicon, and countless other things, such as new Titans.

There is a Dark age ship that gets discovered and t has the power to destroy stars... i presume it does other things but you get a Star Destroyer

**Elector**

Lol, Exactly, you'd get things like that if the Imperium got everything back. Not even the Tyranids would be a threat if the Imperium had a fleet of those.

**Lord Commander Phyrus**

sorry to nitpick, but i just thought i might point out that the SM gene seed isnt STC, it was created by the emperor long after the STC's were made. Also, most Primus and Extremis class forgeworlds produce Titans.

If the Imperoum got all of its lost tech back it would probably completely stop the tyranids in there tracks and perhapse start pushing them back, they would probably exterminate the tau (since the only thing the tau have got going for them is their tech) and stomp on most of the more troublesome ork empires. thus the Imperium's enemies end up being Chaos.... and posibly eldar..... but then the emperor dies (because the golden throne is not STC im pretty sure).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and just an aside; STC wasnt all of the Imperium's tech. it was a compilation of designs that were easy to make and maintain so that no colony wouild fall too far behind. human techgnology whent much further but it is either lost, one of a kind (like the Imperial fists spece monistery Phalanx) or demed heretical by the mechanicus.

**IvanTih**

vodo40k wrote:
kravus master of Horus wrote:And why is it that nobody knows how o replace old tech or remake it?

This is due to the stigma and superstition of the Mechanicum. Reverse engineering or experimenting with new machines is seen as Heresy by the Mechaniucum. The only way the imperium get new tech is by discovering old STCs which essentially make themselves so the Mechanicum regard them as sacred.

The Imperium also advances just slowly,we have experimental torpedoes from Execution Hour,Hellfire bolter shells(variant which uses acids and poisons which are effective against Tyranids who have very,very good immune system).
They reverse engineer personal cloaking device from Tau(Deathwatch),they also had cloak technology long before Tau(Horus Heresy and Kill Team(They cloak five metre shuttle)).
Then we have new space ships classes and advances which happened after Horus Heresy.Power Armor has also improved by little,vehicles also advanced,advances in lance(perfected in M37) and plasma weaponry(they actually innovated and discovered a lost technlogy from Golden Age of Technology).
Adeptus Mechanicus aren't so stangnant(we have planet named Tesla which was full of new experimental weaponry,Codex:Tyranids 5th edition).

We have Slaughersong a fully functioning Golden Age ship which has pretty impressive abilities which are listed above.

Spoiler:

She's big, it's not clear how big but she is 'bigger by far' than the largest ship the Word Bearers have capable of planetary landing. She is described thus 'A massive, curved hull was underslung with powerful engines - gaping particle scoops projected past the prow and led to flared engine exhausts. Clusters of sensor arrays stabbed forward. Sleek windows covered the segmented hull, covering the ship in pinpoints of light [...] There was a name stencilled in enormous letters along the spaceship's hull. The name was Slaughtersong.' 'Slaughtersong was not old in the way that the Multus was old. It was bright and clean, with lumostrips picking out the polished chrome surfaces, every curved wall smooth and unblemished. The floor was of bright silver mesh and the walls of mirror-bright metal. [...] Slaughtersong was so old, it looked new.' She's double hulled, with the space between filled with maintenance tunnels and access-ways leading to her sensor arrays and weapons. Her bridge is deep inside, and 'was an armoured sphere several hundred metres across, in which hovered circular platforms lit brightly from within. Instrumentation appeared as ghostly lines of light in the air, traced out by hidden holoprojectors and scanners fed through to broad flat screens that hung everywhere and followed at a command.' There is a central platform. She's capable of showing live images of two people walking on a planet 'several days' sublight journey by IOM ship away. That said, this is in the Maelstrom so that may not be normal, certainly light travels faster within the eye of terror, to allow ships to travel faster, the old Futurama solution. She's capable of projecting the view outside onto the walls of her bridge, so that one seems to be standing in open space. Her power is derived from 'the endless galleries of the neoplasma generators [note that the squats had a form of these, but the IoM failed to replicate them... though the squat version may actually be an improvement] where gigantic cylindrical turbines hung suspended between a web of gantries' her hold contained seventy original fighter craft 'huge chromed raptors with delta-swept wings and bundles of particle projectors jutting from the fuselage. There were seventy of these craft lined up neatly in the hold, lit by the stark floodlights of high up in the ceiling, waiting to be launched at the will of the ship's master' - bombs and landing gear are also mentioned. The ship can give its commander neural command of these, allowing them to be operated remotely, though they do have cockpits. They have reaction thrusters of some kind, and combustible fuel. Its machine spirit (later called a 'spirit-core' is 'like an arena ringed by towering grey-black memory stacks as tall as buildings, each with a faint ripple of light playing across the surface. The wide circular arena of dark glassy stone was full of wispy lights, forming complex shapes and swirling patterns that broke up and reformed at the speed of the Slaughtersong's thoughts. The ship was all but sentient [she displays seeming sapience later, saying that she wasn't lonely with a demon world to watch], a companion as much as a vessel, a counsellor and sounding board as well as a weapon.' Later it destroys a word bearers warship in a single shot 'a weapon had emerged from the side of Slaughtersong's hull, immense and shining, from which was leaping a solid beam of blue-white light. [...] The searing beam cut off. In its place, a silent explosion of multicoloured flame bloomed against the darkness.' The large Word Bearer's ship is totally destroyed, various secondary explosions.

**Lexx**

As highlighted above. Not all of the Imperium is backsliding or stagnating on the technology front. But the Mechanicum are a blessing and a curse. They helped preserve a lot of technology that would have been lost completely. But at the same time have been a stranglehold on innovation as they hold that they are the only ones legally allowed to understand advanced technology. Even then it's leaders seem to be staunch traditionalists, thinking that preserving the old techs and finding STC's is the most pure way to have technology. And that invention is a heresy. Though it doesn't seem to be true in thinking for all the mechanicus as some innovations ( albiet small and gradual ones ) do make it through. It just takes an agonisingly long time when the whole process is being fought every step with superstition and misunderstanding.

**Elector**

Lord Commander Phyrus wrote:sorry to nitpick, but i just thought i might point out that the SM gene seed isnt STC, it was created by the emperor long after the STC's were made. Also, most Primus and Extremis class forgeworlds produce Titans.

If the Imperoum got all of its lost tech back it would probably completely stop the tyranids in there tracks and perhapse start pushing them back, they would probably exterminate the tau (since the only thing the tau have got going for them is their tech) and stomp on most of the more troublesome ork empires. thus the Imperium's enemies end up being Chaos.... and posibly eldar..... but then the emperor dies (because the golden throne is not STC im pretty sure).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and just an aside; STC wasnt all of the Imperium's tech. it was a compilation of designs that were easy to make and maintain so that no colony wouild fall too far behind. human techgnology whent much further but it is either lost, one of a kind (like the Imperial fists spece monistery Phalanx) or demed heretical by the mechanicus.

Hmmm, well lexicanum (my main source for most things lore-based as it says that "THE MAIN SITE IS FOR OFFICIAL CANON AND OFFICIAL IMAGES ONLY.") states that

The STC (Standard Template Construct) systems were complex analytical and processing systems created in the Dark Age of Technology. They are said to have contained the entirety of human technological knowledge up to that point.

In other words, it does have all of the knowledge up until that point in an STC.

An original STC Titan, a "Castigor-class autonomous bipedal weapons platform, created for fire support and siege operations", was discovered on the planet Chaeroneia3. It was quite larger than an Imperator Titan and of superior technology.

So yeah, we can make Titans, but an STC Titan is much better than any "current" Titans. Although, I bet even if they didn't have the Gol;den Throne STC, since I can agree that wouldn't exist, I bet they'd have the tech and tools to fix it from slowly failing.

**Lexx**

But recent publications say they don't have the know how to fully fix the throne. And that its slowly failing. As far as I know there was only the one.

**IvanTih**

Lexx wrote:As highlighted above. Not all of the Imperium is backsliding or stagnating on the technology front. But the Mechanicum are a blessing and a curse. They helped preserve a lot of technology that would have been lost completely. But at the same time have been a stranglehold on innovation as they hold that they are the only ones legally allowed to understand advanced technology. Even then it's leaders seem to be staunch traditionalists, thinking that preserving the old techs and finding STC's is the most pure way to have technology. And that invention is a heresy. Though it doesn't seem to be true in thinking for all the mechanicus as some innovations ( albiet small and gradual ones ) do make it through. It just takes an agonisingly long time when the whole process is being fought every step with superstition and misunderstanding.

Actually Mechanicus are rather competent in novels.
They actually seem to understand technology,you can't build let's say a hive without knowning some prequisite technologies even with the help of STC(instruction),same matters for constructing Defence Lasers etc....

**Lexx**

They're great at preserving what has come before. But they don't exactly seem to be efficient. Im not saying that they're incompetent. But a lot of ritual and misunderstanding about technology hasn't half slowed things down. Science seems to have taken a back seat to theology with them.

**IvanTih**

Lexx wrote:They're great at preserving what has come before. But they don't exactly seem to be efficient. Im not saying that they're incompetent. But a lot of ritual and misunderstanding about technology hasn't half slowed things down. Science seems to have taken a back seat to theology with them.

That for sure,but those litanies can actually help if you interpret them this way.

Let's say that Bob operates some mining machine,he forgets how to turn it on,then he chants Litany of Activation,then he proceeds to chant Litany of Operation to remember the knowledge of operating the machine,anyway it's my take on those litanies.

**Lexx**

That's what I mean by misunderstanding their technology sometimes. What are litanies and prayers might just once have been instructions and manuals. But over the generations myth and superstition supersedes logic. Depending on rituals that bear little resemblance to what they originally were and using technology that might be being used in a way that was never the intended use. Not that I'm knocking the mechanicus. Its one of the factions i find most interesting in the 40k setting.

**IvanTih**

Lexx wrote:That's what I mean by misunderstanding their technology sometimes. What are litanies and prayers might just once have been instructions and manuals. But over the generations myth and superstition supersedes logic. Depending on rituals that bear little resemblance to what they originally were and using technology that might be being used in a way that was never the intended use. Not that I'm knocking the mechanicus. Its one of the factions i find most interesting in the 40k setting.

Me too,I would love to see AM codex released in some time soon.
Anyway if AM weren't such dicks about sharing technologies,the Imperium would preform better in some areas,but I think that is partly justified due the presence of Chaos which basically can turn your soldiers and their wargear against you.

**Lexx**

Yeah I do agree part of it is a good way to retain power. if your organization is the only one legally under pain of death to all others to replicate and maintain the advanced technologies of an entire empire. That's a pretty sweet monopoly right there. Even if it does stifle creativity and marginalize people to become radicals/hereteks. Even if giving such power up would be for the good of humanity it would be hard to give up or admit change might have to happen. Founded or unfounded as the reasons may be.

**IvanTih**

Lexx wrote:Yeah I do agree part of it is a good way to retain power. if your organization is the only one legally under pain of death to all others to replicate and maintain the advanced technologies of an entire empire. That's a pretty sweet monopoly right there. Even if it does stifle creativity and marginalize people to become radicals/hereteks. Even if giving such power up would be for the good of humanity it would be hard to give up or admit change might have to happen. Founded or unfounded as the reasons may be.

There is also non-dick heretic rouge AM organization in Dark Heresy which wants to share technology to everyone.

**whatwhat**

kravus master of Horus wrote:And why is it that nobody knows how o replace old tech or remake it?

Basically all civilisations of humanity were pretty much reliant on each other in terms of survival. Once they all got cut off from each other (age of strife) and all descended into anarchy the focus became more about survival on an individual level as a posed to preserving past gained knowledge for the goodness of mankind.

As others have explained. the dogma of organisations like the mechanicum has caused the slow rediscovery of the technology since the age of strife.

**Lexx**

IvanTih wrote:
Lexx wrote:Yeah I do agree part of it is a good way to retain power. if your organization is the only one legally under pain of death to all others to replicate and maintain the advanced technologies of an entire empire. That's a pretty sweet monopoly right there. Even if it does stifle creativity and marginalize people to become radicals/hereteks. Even if giving such power up would be for the good of humanity it would be hard to give up or admit change might have to happen. Founded or unfounded as the reasons may be.

There is also non-dick heretic rouge AM organization in Dark Heresy which wants to share technology to everyone.

You mean Logicians? Well I might argue more for the mechanicums side on that front. They're conversely obsessed with unfettered technological progress. Regardless where it comes from and whatever the cost. Be it money, morals or lives lost in gaining it. At least the mechanicum isn't quite as unscrupulous.

**Exopheric**

The Mechanicum is pretty carefree when it comes to lives lost, if they are lost in The Quest for Knowledge. They aren't exactly malicious about it; it's just another resource expenditure to them. They believe that STCs and other technologies are divine works of the Omnissiah, not human invention. The recovery of Standard Template data is the one true way to receive this sacred knowledge and apply it. A creative Adept is guilty of the worst possible hubris! It's an inhumanly rigid orthodoxy, because, well for all intents and purposes the Tech-Magi aren't human anymore.

To be fair, in a universe where demons can be real and just using the wrong combination of angles will channel malign forces, hewing to received wisdom and proven procedure isn't the worst policy.

**IvanTih**

Lexx wrote:
IvanTih wrote:
Lexx wrote:Yeah I do agree part of it is a good way to retain power. if your organization is the only one legally under pain of death to all others to replicate and maintain the advanced technologies of an entire empire. That's a pretty sweet monopoly right there. Even if it does stifle creativity and marginalize people to become radicals/hereteks. Even if giving such power up would be for the good of humanity it would be hard to give up or admit change might have to happen. Founded or unfounded as the reasons may be.

There is also non-dick heretic rouge AM organization in Dark Heresy which wants to share technology to everyone.

You mean Logicians? Well I might argue more for the mechanicums side on that front. They're conversely obsessed with unfettered technological progress. Regardless where it comes from and whatever the cost. Be it money, morals or lives lost in gaining it. At least the mechanicum isn't quite as unscrupulous.

Not them,I'll dig up the info from my Dark Heresy books,stay tuned folks.

**Mr Nobody**

Ah, the litany of "righty tighty, lefty loosey".

**BearersOfSalvation**

Lexx wrote:Even then it's leaders seem to be staunch traditionalists, thinking that preserving the old techs and finding STC's is the most pure way to have technology.

It's possible that the Mechanicus is actually right about this - lots of 40k techs involve really amazing materials and energies. It's possible that you can't make new designs for the best STC stuff without employing extensive AI, but in 40k AIs risk corruption by Chaos and perhaps inevitably turn on their organic creators. If the corruption risk is bad enough, it may be that you can really do for the best stuff is salvage designs made while chaos was too preoccupied to corrupt the AIs if you don't want to end up killed by your own creations.

**IvanTih**

Lexx wrote:
IvanTih wrote:
You mean Logicians? Well I might argue more for the mechanicums side on that front. They're conversely obsessed with unfettered technological progress. Regardless where it comes from and whatever the cost. Be it money, morals or lives lost in gaining it. At least the mechanicum isn't quite as unscrupulous.

Not them,I'll dig up the info from my Dark Heresy books,stay tuned folks.

It is a pain to find it,but I remember that it was founded by some Magos who thought that Emperor gave weapons to all men since they are all brothers,something like that.

**Lexx**

Thanks Ivan. Will keep an eye out for it when I'm reading through my Dark heresy books. Love them for the fluff. Plenty of Hereteks out there

.