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Hi All

I'm still relatively new to the hobby, been collecting a little over a year. When it came to picking my first army it was really easy I knew exactly who I wanted to be. Imperial guard, loved the fluff and loved the models.

I've been reluctant to start another army because I thought it might get complicated trying to learn rules for multiple side let alone different game systems. Saying that my eye has been wandering towards a fantasy army, started as an interest in potential conversions but now its grown.

I'd like to assure you this isn't one of those "what army should I get" threads as how are you meant to know my mind, I just have a few questions for those of you who play multiple sides/systems.

1) How hard do find it keeping the rules separate?

I ask because as I said i'm new to hobby but at my flgs I seem to end up rules layering a bit , and I was wondering if this was due to more veteran players having too much knowledge e.g being playing for too many editions with too many sides.

2) when you chose your second army did you go for something similar or something completely different? I mean both in play style and fluff.

I play guard and because I like the fluff so much have found it difficult to consider playing a chaos side.

3) why you chose what you did?



Thanks and apologies if this is too close to a "what army" thread.

Spank

Hi,
In regards to choosing a second army I think you'll find that the majority of players will select them on looks (we are all shallow!) , what appeals to you. It all boils down to the overall look of the army, any other army you choose needs to appeal you; after all you are going to be painting a lot of them and it certainly helps if you like the look of them! Don't worry about the different rules systems, you'll get used to the variations.

I have quite a lot of armies that I started more or less on a whim. My first was Orks (way back in the day) - I split the then current boxed set with my brother so I got Orks and he got SM.

Later on I decided I wanted a Tyranid army after getting Space Hulk and the 'stealers from the game (my brother again got the SM ).

Later on still I got some money and actually bought some 'Nids. Then I wanted to get a CSM army (which is my "main" army at the moment).

Also decided that I wanted some IG, so now have some IG.

Then decided that I didn't really want 'Nids or Orks any more so have sold/am selling them off to make room for my new Eldar army

Personally I don't actually play a lot, but rules don't change too much from army to army and I usually have a crib sheet of army/unit specific rules to help me out too.

When I pick a new army, it's based purely on looks alone. Mostly, if I like how the core troops look since that's what armies need the most of. When I start collecting, I start with 2 units of troops and a HQ and then add to it from there also based on looks and try to plan that around a 1000 pt army. I could care less how an army plays or what their rules are, if I don't like the models I won't play with them. I can learn the rules later If I enjoy playing or even if I just enjoy painting them, I'll start adding to it over 1000.

This is probably why I lose 9 games out of 10, but I still have fun

My choices...

Necrons...just think they are cool.

Marines...easy for my son to learn to use, easy for me to paint.

Orks...funky conversion fun. Probably the line of models with the most personality in the 40k range. Just the amount of options for heads alone is crazy.


I would go crazy for some Eldar...if they had more plastic HQ/characters to convert...high detail metal is a pain.

Do you guys not struggle to remember stat lines and the like?

I suppose you can always use reference sheets but doesn't so thinks down a lot.

SpankHammer III wrote:
I'd like to assure you this isn't one of those "what army should I get" threads as how are you meant to know my mind, I just have a few questions for those of you who play multiple sides/systems.

1) How hard do find it keeping the rules separate?

A certain amount of 'oooh, that looks nice, is a part of the hobby, many of us flit about a bit. Don't run before you can walk and take on your next army after you've given a good amount of time to refining and polishing your current main force.
That said, fantasy is a seperate game and I can't see anything wrong with starting a force for that game whilst continuing to play 40k.

SpankHammer III wrote:
I ask because as I said i'm new to hobby but at my flgs I seem to end up rules layering a bit , and I was wondering if this was due to more veteran players having too much knowledge e.g being playing for too many editions with too many sides.

It's usually about editions, I've been playing since Rogue Trader was created, about 20years ago, that's a long time and things are still 'the same but different' so what was once taken for granted or played so often is now no longer in effect. It catches the older players out all the time, I certainly will be needing to learn from the ground up when I return to WHFB myself soon as I have so much stored info from about the last time I played, when the box had lizards and brettonians in it... I've had no such problem with BFG, which I've recently taken up having never played it before. I've learnt it and am enjoying it greatly with little muddling.

SpankHammer III wrote:
2) when you chose your second army did you go for something similar or something completely different? I mean both in play style and fluff.

Yes, for me personally, I enjoy taking on armies that have very different and marked styles of play. I have orks in 40k, Imperial Navy in BFg and will be taking Empire in WHFB. I have already tagged Dark Eldar as my next 40k army due to it's great model range and total deviation from Orks in play style and Wood Elves or WoC for Fantasy as my 2nd army there for the same reasons.

I confess to boggling at people who have more than 1 type of marine army, I don't get the attraction and I imagine that must be a fairly complicated thing to remember as they are so similar but not the same (how many marines in a land raider, saving throws being different etc between variant marine codices).

SpankHammer III wrote:
I play guard and because I like the fluff so much have found it difficult to consider playing a chaos side.

My recommendation to you is to pick the army you like the look of in fantasy as your starting force. As to your 2nd 40k army, I'd suggest Craftworld Eldar as you will have a different playstyle from them, they can be used as a guest army against your ImpG and you can also ally them with your ImpG in apocalypse games or doubles games.

SpankHammer III wrote:
3) why you chose what you did?

I chose orks because I loved the new look they got during their overhaul, I also love the sense of humour about orks and their terrifying cheerful optimism about the notions of an eternity of galatic warfare. I decided on Empire in WHFB because I'm struck with the notion of massed ranks of humans in regimental colours facing the horrors of the world, not shiny knights like the brets but just ordinary guys taking up sword n shield and marching to their death or glory. I'd been watching 'Sharpe' and 'Waterloo' and that put me in mind of them.
I chose Imperial Navy because 30 mile gothic cathedrals in space, hurling torpedoes the size of the empire state building at enemy vessals as massed choirs of Adeptus Mechanicus acolytes chant and swing censers is pretty damned cool...

Also because of this picture:

Screw you star destroyer!

I have a habit of buying models from whatever army book/codex I last look at.

Subsequently, I suffer from "He who builds everything, builds nothing"

ZF-

I have to keep army lists and codexes handy for my multiple armies but my thought process went something like this.

I chose Eldar because I think they look cool.
Then I went Horde Orks because I was tired of being outnumbered all the time as Eldar.
Then I went Marines because of the other half of AOBR.
Then I went IG because I thought the Valkyrie looked cool and an Apoc Tank Battle with Russes and Baneblades seemed like a very fun way to spend lots of money.
Then I went Chaos after reading through the Horus Heresy books (and because the call of Slaanesh was too great to ignore).
Which brought me to Dark Eldar - because they are my first army's nasty little evil, cousins (and becasue they look cool).

Just an insight into my Army Creep process.

Within one game system, it's fairly easy to keep rules separate. My orks never get counter-attack, and the space wolves don't get mob rule. Because special rules are drawn from the fluff, it's fairly easy to track.

I find it harder to track rules between the games. Ballistic skill modifiers vs cover saves, close combat result modifiers, armour save modifiers vs AP, wound allocation, are examples of similar rules concepts that are addressed differently in each game.

Firstly thank you everyone, your insights have helped. Get the impression its a case of going with your guts. Fluff is important to me, so i've been reading some stuff on wiki. Looks wise nothing has really grab me more than anything else.

I've arranged a fantasy trial game this Thursday, just to see how easy it is to grasp, but I may just wait until i've got 40k down a little better. I can see the rules getting confusing but that may only be because I haven't tried yet.

I have no intention of getting another 40k army yet. My goal is to build an entire infantry company, so there is part of me that is reluctant to start another horde army but man I just love hordes.

I decided on Empire in WHFB because I'm struck with the notion of massed ranks of humans in regimental colours facing the horrors of the world, not shiny knights like the brets but just ordinary guys taking up sword n shield and marching to their death or glory.

that's why I chose guard, and apart from the kit bashing options why i'm considering empire but am worried they might be a little samey.

thanks again everyone

I never remember stat lines, even for armies I've been playing for 15 years. That's what Army Builder is for

I came into the Hobby with Dark Angels, and quickly became focused on Deathwing. They weren't exactly a 'Noob-Forgiving Army', but I stuck with them for a time.

However, they're up for sale. Now that I'm more established in the Gaming side of things, I want to try something slightly different; Imperial Fists First Company, led by Sigismund.

It's greatly similar, in that it consists of Terminators and Dreadnoughts, but the Fluff and Painting are vastly different, of course.

Later down the line, when I have the Fists underway, I'm going to pick up the Dark Eldar as well. They're vastly different, with a completely contrasting style.

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about selecting a new Army.

I'd advise you to attempt to Play-Test whatever you're thinking of playing before you blow your hard cash on the Models. That way, you can get an initial idea of whether it's the right Army for you.

For example, I'm in the process of Play-Testing Dark Eldar at the moment, although I don't intend to get into them properly until the Summer of 2011. That gives me plenty of time to think, reflect, and make changes.

It's really down to you; the end of the day, nobody can select a second Army for you. It's something you'll just have to think about, try, think again, try again, and then, perhaps, you'll find the one that's right for you!

Last piece of advice: don't jump right into whatever you Play-Test. I'd suggest you try a couple of different Armies, and compare them. Also, whenever you play against someone, ask them why they selected their Army, and why they'd recommend it. That way, you can get the opinions of other people, which can be greatly helpful in assisting your final decision.

Good luck!

(*Cough* Dark Eldar! Slaanesh wants your soul! Give over to the lure of excess! *Cough*)

Nothing to see here.

i also cannot keep my head on one army... In 40k, i have a marine army (which depending on the game, i can run codex marines or more usually Space Wolves.. since my chapter is the Iron Snakes, i feel the fluff more fits the puppies), a Nid army, and a Guard army. on fantasy side i have Ogre Kingdoms (which is not my first fantasy army, but my main army if that makes sense) and Dark Elves.

The marines, i chose because at the time they looked cool, were versatile and i loved the fluff behind the Raven Guard, eventually painting black was horrible, and they have all become my Iron Snakes. The tyranids, the models looks just grew on me, and i have always loved the Aliens movies, so that was a fit. And my guard army i chose because i have wanted to do an army based on my first unit in the Army (3d ACR) and the guard is quite literally the best fit for that.

Ogres have become my main fantasy army mostly because of looks, and i like crashing into enemy lines outnumber but not out "gunned"

1) How hard do find it keeping the rules separate?
I have a tough time keeping rules strait in general, but that it's the game rules I have a tough time with. The rules between my two armies (BA and IG) are so different that I have no real trouble telling them apart.

2) when you chose your second army did you go for something similar or something completely different? I mean both in play style and fluff.
I went for something completely different.

3) why you chose what you did?
First army: BA, inspired by the cover art on 2nd edition box set
Second Army: Gunline style IG. Always liked the IG fluff, but with plastic Cadians and the availability of aftermarket head options, I was finally able to make the army I wanted.
Third army: Started dabbling in other generic miniatures rules, Sci-Fi, Fantasy, and Post Apoc.

If you are getting the bug for another project you might as well give in. You will eventually anyways. My one suggestion would be to consider a different game rather than a second 40k army. WFB, Warmachine, FOW, LotR, Battletech,etc, etc, whatever interests you. It's a great way to get a whole new gaming experience and expand your circle of available gamers.

SpankHammer III wrote:

I decided on Empire in WHFB because I'm struck with the notion of massed ranks of humans in regimental colours facing the horrors of the world, not shiny knights like the brets but just ordinary guys taking up sword n shield and marching to their death or glory.

that's why I chose guard, and apart from the kit bashing options why i'm considering empire but am worried they might be a little samey.

Yep, that's why I couldn't have a fantasy orc army, my orks are amazing, don't want their thunder stolen by the WHFB guys. Luckily my wife loves night goblins, spider riders and river trolls, so I'll be able to own em by proxy when we get her fantasy army sorted.

Also there's the painting and modelling issue for owning the 'same' or similar armies in 40k and fantasy.

If you've been painting very natural and grounded colour schemes like human skin and camo, along with very sensible kitbashing, how about a total change of tack and getting a lizardman army, some natural history books from the library on reptiles and amphibians and going nuts on vibrant paint schemes, or a Tzeentchian WoC army and unleashing your craziest conversion/greenstuffing skills!

So, I recommend a change of pace for your fantasy choice.

Has any of you gone with similar armies and regretted it? e.g. Orks and Orcs, Eldar and Elves, Imperila Guard and Empire

I really wish I could stick to a few armies, I have a real collecting problem. Mostly because I like playing different armies, and painting different models.

I would suggest waiting until you finish painting up your army before getting a new one, because then it will never get finished if you have newer models to paint.

I would suggest waiting until you finish painting up your army before getting a new one, because then it will never get finished if you have newer models to paint.

The problem with that is I don't ever intend to finish with my guard, i've got about 4000 point at the moment, at least 3000 of which is painted. Like I said the plan is eventually to have a full infantry company, well at least 5 full platoons anyway and after that knowing me i'll try for the regiment

I mean when is an army really done?

SpankHammer III wrote:
I'd like to assure you this isn't one of those "what army should I get" threads as how are you meant to know my mind, I just have a few questions for those of you who play multiple sides/systems.

And the Committee to End Groundhog Day Threads thanks you.

SpankHammer III wrote:
1) How hard do find it keeping the rules separate?

Not that hard at all actually. I have IG, Vanilla SM, DH, and Tyranids. I could see it perhaps getting a little more muddied if you were only playing SM flavours, but they all handle pretty differently. I've been playing for about a year and a half.

SpankHammer III wrote:
2) when you chose your second army did you go for something similar or something completely different? I mean both in play style and fluff.

I would go for something different if I were you. Our Ork guy picked up CSM, and then got sad because he said they felt too assault oriented.

SpankHammer III wrote:
3) why you chose what you did?

Well, I chose IG because I like being the fish in the sea of sharks. In a world of railgun firing Xenos, face-melting Daemons, and rocket-SMG superhumans, I like being the guys in kevlar with 50 watt laser pointers and 20-gauge shotguns.
I chose DH because they're the opposite side of the same coin, and because the allies rules allowed them to work really well with IG at the time.
I chose the Vanilla SM because I got an amazing deal on a Megaforce.
I chose the Tyranids because they were the only thing we were missing to have a Starcraft themed battle, and they were pretty cool before their new codex came out.

SpankHammer III wrote:
Thanks and apologies if this is too close to a "what army" thread.

Not at all, thank you for a thread that I actually felt like replying to.

Ok, I went wrong, I play about 5 different wargames, at least collecting 6, and have 4 large and 2 small fantasy armies, 2 large and 3 small 40k armies, 2 large assorted LOTR armies, and aload of other random models that I don't even collect. Plus I have an army for Warhammer hsitorical romans, warhammer historical medaeval english, epic armageddon, DnD, Space Hulk, - it goes on! It's fine to do this, just make sure you bleed out all you've got on each army at a time before moving on, and keep them quality not quantity, but otherwise, collect and 'switch-game-system' your balls off!

SpankHammer III wrote:

.

1) How hard do find it keeping the rules separate?

I ask because as I said i'm new to hobby but at my flgs I seem to end up rules layering a bit , and I was wondering if this was due to more veteran players having too much knowledge e.g being playing for too many editions with too many sides.

To be honest unless you are less then average intelligence you are going to be ok. So I don't know you but I think you would probably be ok. It really isn't very complicated.

SpankHammer III wrote:
2) when you chose your second army did you go for something similar or something completely different? I mean both in play style and fluff.

I play guard and because I like the fluff so much have found it difficult to consider playing a chaos side.

See my answer below

SpankHammer III wrote:
3) why you chose what you did?

I always build armies with models I like. If I like the models I will build the army. Decide what is important to you about an army and pick whatever army fits the bill. Perhaps if you like the fluff of the imperial guard you could do something that would almost be an add on to your current army such as inquisition or space marines. Conversely you could pick an army that you see as the natural opponent to your current army..... perhaps something like Orks or Tyranids.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SpankHammer III wrote:Do you guys not struggle to remember stat lines and the like?

I suppose you can always use reference sheets but doesn't so thinks down a lot.

Keep your army book handy.... it has a reference sheet in the back. Just not very complicated.

SpankHammer III wrote:

1) How hard do find it keeping the rules separate?

I ask because as I said i'm new to hobby but at my flgs I seem to end up rules layering a bit , and I was wondering if this was due to more veteran players having too much knowledge e.g being playing for too many editions with too many sides.

2) when you chose your second army did you go for something similar or something completely different? I mean both in play style and fluff.

I play guard and because I like the fluff so much have found it difficult to consider playing a chaos side.

3) why you chose what you did?

1) Not hard , because i never associatde them together in the first place xD

2) I try to go for something completely different so i wont end up with "clones" but in different shape. However sometimes i cant help the armies
to be similar due to ... see below

3) I compose an army out of models i like ( i dont see it as buying an army , i see it as collecting bunch of models that happens to be in a same army :'P ) ,
if they end up been same play style with my other armies , then i cant help it.

I have 3 armies, and they're all Imperial so rules layering doesen't really happen that much with me.

First love was the Ultramarines, loved the old school colors they had in 3rd Edition. Been collecting them slowly every since 2003.

Second army was Imperial Guard, therse are my "wacky tacky" army. I paint them however I want, and I use them in crazy ways. Generally though, they're based off of modern Airborne Forces.

Third is my Blood Angels Army. They were actually the first models I saw before buying my Ultramarines, but their crazy thirst and lack of self restraint didn't appeal to me. Over 5 years later, I saw them as a great army to run in both tournies and to paint& Convert for a challenge.

This is the pattern I used, I'd like to start a fantasy force but I mainly paint for fun and not to build a good tourney list. Its really up to you, but I can assure you, once you see the different army on the table, you'll realize they have different rules. This means rules overlapping won't occur.

Unless your me, then Blood Smurfs is what you think your running .

And the Committee to End Groundhog Day Threads thanks you.

welcome and thanks for the post.

To be honest unless you are less then average intelligence you are going to be ok. So I don't know you but I think you would probably be ok. It really isn't very complicated.

I don't know man I can be quite dumb

Again thankyou all for your comments. I also found that white dwarf covered picking a new army in the DE issue, soi've been reading that as well.

For those of you who are interested, I shall not be starting another 40k army. Not for fear of rules confusion but because I love my guard too much an do not wish to dilute them, I may consider a small Tau army when they get a new codex or a small SOB force if they bring out plastics.

With your help I've narrowed the Fantasy sides I potentially want down to 3 sides, which i'm going to discuss with guys at FLGS to find out playstyles and a little more background. One side I really like the models for, I think are very different to my current side and there playstyle sounds interesting and the last is, well it empire for the exact same reasons I chose my guard.

Thanks again everyone

Different rules and stat lines mean little down the road if you enjoy playing that new army.

The best example I could give would be the first great video-game you played. For me it was Final Fantasy 3. It doesnt matter that it's been 15 years at least since I last played it, I enjoyed it so much it's pretty much committed to memory and I could re-do all of it instinctively.

Armies will be the same, if you enjoyed playing your previous army, it doesnt matter if you pick up a new one, you'll remember the rules for the old one and it'll just be a matter of learning those for the new one.

if you like fantesy go for it.

the rules are different, but they arn't hard to learn. get someone to do a series of test games for you. work your way up through the different rules.

and pick an army that appeales to you. if you enjoy looking at and playing with that army the rules will come to you.


i play 4 different games(40k, fantesy, FoW, and starting BFG) and i don't have any trouble remembering the basics. i do have to get into the "Zone" for that game, but once there i am good.

I like to be able to play both sides of the main conflicts presented in a game's setting.

Thus for 40K I consider it almost mandatory to have a "Imperial" army and a "non-Imperial" army.

As for cross-gaming, I don't find it important to have this variety, meaning I would have no issue playing IG and Empire. However You might find it more enjoyable to have a completely different type of army from a modeling and painting perspective...

I've had trouble keeping rules seperate in the past, but I feel that Fantasy and 40k are different enough that it shouldn't present much of a problem. I tend to thow mordheim rules in occasionally, probably because its the first system I ever learned.

While I can appreciate your interest in fantasy, (I've resisted that path for a long time) when I picked my second army it was still in 40k, but an army that was different enough to make me learn a new strategy. (I started with Necrons because someone I knew had them and ended up selling me his army. Then i went for Nids because they were so customizable)

I think It helped me grasp what other codexes provided in comparison to my first. I was that guy who would wander right into a trap because I didn't know the other drastically different rules in each codex.

Well I just bring the codex with me with the army im playing.... what i hate is when a new codex comes out and you have to relearn all the rules in the codex....
Im still learning the new dark eldar rules and stats.... been almost twenty years since i had to refresh my mind on those rules.....