Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

1750 for tournament - I'm not completely sold on the foot-DP yet - in test games, he's a wee bit too slow and tends to end up 'mopping up'. I could swap him for more fiends. However, he DOES do really well at large target saturation. i.e people fire at him instead of the other three monstrous creatures....


* Keeper of Secrets (Soporific Musk)
* Keeper of Secrets (Soporific Musk)

* 6 Fiends (1 Unholy Might)

* 18 Daemonettes
* 18 Daemonettes
* 12 Daemonettes

* 6 Seekers (1 Transfixing Gaze)

* Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Aura of Acquiescence, Soporific Musk, Daemonic Flight, Unholy Might)
* Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Aura of Acquiescence, Soporific Musk, Iron Hide, Transfixing Gaze)

Are you dead set on wings for the first daemon? Two of the following daemons will definitly suck up shots.

I really like the following setup for slaanesh daemon princes:
mark, aura, iron hide, pavane. This will help speed up the slow guy and give a speed boost to everything else in the army. It also helps out fiends a bit because you can pull units out of terrain.

I also think you could get away with 3 units of 12 for the daemonettes. If you were to drop 12 daemonettes, and a few other trimmings off of your daemon princes you could fit a 2nd unit of fiends in. Or more seekers.

I think Pavane is a must for MOS DP's. It gives them reverse fleet, so you should be feel safe in dropping the Wings.

I think Warmaster makes a lot of good points and would lend my support to his suggestions.

However, I think Daemonettes need to be run in bigger squads than 12, as they are the squishiest of Daemon troops.

* Keeper of Secrets (Soporific Musk)
* Keeper of Secrets (Soporific Musk)

I don't know about these. They look good on paper, but cost a lot of points. I suppose two ups the target saturation. It isn't entirely fluffy but Skarbrand would rock in this list.

* 6 Fiends (1 Unholy Might)

These are awesome. I never leave home without 2 squads of 5 if possible. I'd suggest more.

* 18 Daemonettes
* 18 Daemonettes
* 12 Daemonettes

I run squads of 12 (though I play 1500 points) and don't have too much trouble with that. Make sure to DS behind or in terrain and the risk isn't too large.

* 6 Seekers (1 Transfixing Gaze)

I'm not entirely sold on these. Fiends are better unless you are assaulting into cover (you can use the nettes for that). I would only take them if I wanted more Fiends but had no more Elite slots.

* Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Aura of Acquiescence, Soporific Musk, Daemonic Flight, Unholy Might)
* Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Aura of Acquiescence, Soporific Musk, Iron Hide, Transfixing Gaze)

These seem a bit bloated. I don't know that they are both necessary. You have no ranged anti tank. You will be relying on close combat to pop transports...I'm not sold on that. I run a Slaneesh/Tzeentch list that incorporates cheap Heralds of Tzeentch and a DP for the Bolt of Tzeentch. The Fiends and Daemonettes do the heavy lifting in close combat. I think you need either some Bolt of Tzeentch or Sould Grinders to be competitive. But if pure fluff is your goal then go for this with more Fiends.

Warmaster wrote:mark, aura, iron hide, pavane. This will help speed up the slow guy and give a speed boost to everything else in the army. It also helps out fiends a bit because you can pull units out of terrain.

That is a REALLY good point - I usually stay away from Pavane as I find it a bit useless in an all-Fleet army, but it WOULD give that guy the speed boost he needs. The seekers are only there because I find it handy to have a second cavalry unit to tie up units early on - it gives the Daemonettes and Keepers time to get into combat wthout getting shot. I'd much rather swap them for Fiends.

Claypool wrote:I think Pavane is a must for MOS DP's. It gives them reverse fleet, so you should be feel safe in dropping the Wings. However, I think Daemonettes need to be run in bigger squads than 12, as they are the squishiest of Daemon troops.

Again, good point. I agree that 12 is too small for daemonettes. The squads tend to survive at 12 with a bit of cover help, but 18 means they can soak up a turn of shooting and STILL be a good offensive unit. Makes them a lot more useful all round.

JGrand wrote:I don't know about these. They look good on paper, but cost a lot of points. I suppose two ups the target saturation. It isn't entirely fluffy but Skarbrand would rock in this list....I'm not entirely sold on these. Fiends are better unless you are assaulting into cover (you can use the nettes for that). I would only take them if I wanted more Fiends but had no more Elite slots....You have no ranged anti tank. You will be relying on close combat to pop transports...

I agree with the point on Fiends/Seekers - i might try and find a way to swap them. The Keepers , i find, really are worth every penny.

Strangely, in tournament situations, I find that there's a big bonus to be had by invalidating all your enemy's anti-tank preparations. All of the units are fleet, some are cavalry, and all of them, with rending, have enough attacks to do pretty well against transports, so I rarely find the lack of ranged weapons a problem.

---

How about this for a list change (I don't have any more Daemon Princes with a convincing Iron Hide, but....)

* Keeper of Secrets (Soporific Musk)
* Keeper of Secrets (Soporific Musk)

* 6 Fiends (1 Unholy Might)
* 3 Fiends (1 Unholy Might)

* 18 Daemonettes
* 18 Daemonettes
* 12 Daemonettes

* Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Soporific Musk, Iron Hide, Pavane)
* Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Soporific Musk, Iron Hide, Pavane)

ORRRRR, Swap one of the DPs for this - just to give me another S6 monster....

* Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Aura of Acquiescence, Soporific Musk, Unholy Might, Tranfixing Gaze, Pavane)

The big change is the loss of Seekers for more Fiends - are 3 fiends better than 6 seekers?

I would stick with the seekers over the 3 feinds. In fact i would flesh the Seeker unit out to 12, they hit hard with the gak ton of attacks they put out. They are a bargain at their point cost.

They Seekers are faster and can handle bigger units better than fiends. I think you will definitely get more mileage out of the 6 seekers when comparing them to 3 fiends.

Ztryder wrote:I would stick with the seekers over the 3 feinds. In fact i would flesh the Seeker unit out to 12, they hit hard with the gak ton of attacks they put out. They are a bargain at their point cost.They Seekers are faster and can handle bigger units better than fiends. I think you will definitely get more mileage out of the 6 seekers when comparing them to 3 fiends.

Hmm. I'd have to lose something else to afford another 6 seekers (and find 6 Juan Diaz ones on eBay! Can't be buying those plastic monstrosities!)

Seekers and Fiends are both the same speed - they're both Beasts/Cavalry. The difference is ...

6 Seekers (on the charge) have 6 wounds total, T3 and 30 S3 attacks
3 Fiends (on the charge) with one unholy might have 6 wounds total, T4 and 6 S6 attacks and 12 S5 attacks

So, I guess it depends on who I'm likely to be fighting - Seekers have more attacks, but Fiends have a higher Strength. Fiends could be more useful against vehicles, and tough infantry, Seekers better against light infantry.

I wrote this up for a different post a while back, so I figured why not repost it here .

Okay so let's look at some things for fiends vs. seekers.

Against vehicles: Even going against a normal vehicle you need a 6 followed by a 3 to pop it with seekers. Fiends need 6's and the upgraded fiend needs a 5. Odd's wise that's about 2.7 pens for seekers, and 3.5 pens for fiends. Not a huge difference. The bigger factor comes in with dreadnaughts. Soul Grinder's and blood crushers hate dreadnaughts, the crushers can't kill them, and the dreads have higher init on the grinder's. Fiend will munch av12 dread's and even have a decent shot at taking out an av13 dread's, the seekers are powerless agains them.

Against marine equivalents. Your number's are off. You don't get 8.33 non rending wounds, 1/6 of the time you get a rend, the other 1/6 of a time it's a wound. I think you added both results of 5 and 6 into your non rending wounds. Which means you only kill 5.5ish marines. The fiends give you 3 rend's and 9 wounds, and kill 6, still slight advantage fiends.

Against something like ork's you get 7.6 dead orks, the fiends get 10.5, we are starting to see a marked difference now. Against ws3 and t3 with a 5+ save 12.9 the fiends get 14.6, so still a little higher on the damage effectiveness.

So damage potential the fiends usually edge the seekers out a little bit, let's look at defense. Flamer's a single flamer hitting seekers that have been bunched up because of assaulting a vehicle or just getting out of combat can cause a maximum of 10 wounds (unlikely but it could happen), maximum of 6 on the fiends. Also the fiends t4 really helps them out when taking small arm's fire. They have a smaller footprint than the 10 seeker's, and because of wound allocation, you can actually force them to take 3 wounds before they lose a single model.

So the very last thing is would you rather have hit and run or grenades. I think the hit and run is way more important. It allows you to slingshot the fiends around the table, get to juicy targets quicker or even just get out of hand to hand so you can re-charge in for extra attacks.

yeah...
Slaaneshesh has lost it's way in math/wallet hammer..........

Panic..

I would max Fiends always. Fiends are the working backbone of a slaanesh list.

I would go for 2 Keepers, 3x6 Fiends (1 with upgrade), and for troops I went well with 2x5 (hiding and scoring), 1x10 (iconing and scoring), 1x15 (fighting) Daemonettes. This is enough to fit 5 Seekers in 1750p

I played Ian's list yesterday and I have to concur that more fiends would have been harder to deal with. They were pretty survivable, 2 wounds a piece even when up against null zone.

However, my transports (rhino's) were popped by by daemonettes and seekers. Dreads tied up Daemonettes pretty well until Daemon princes blew them apart.

Hopefully Ian might put up the battle report, but my list wasn't my tourney one, i'd dropped a lot of anti-tank as Ian wanted it to be as hard as possible in preparation for the tournament.