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So rather than clog up another thread, here goes.

Thunderhawks are, for most Chapters that employ them, rarely used in frontline combat operations(i.e. dropping troops and equipment right at the frontline) during the opening phases of a campaign, especially if anti-aircraft defenses are potentially still around. I can think of maybe one occasion(Space Wolves series by William King, the second one..."Ragnar's Claw", I think it is? Don't have it anymore, but it was the one situated on Garmr and about the Spear of one of Leman Russ' lieutenants) where Thunderhawks were employed in a frontline situation.

Drop Pods, however, are a totally different story. They're used in almost every frontline Astartes operation, simply by being the single best way to deliver their cargo of Astartes on time, on target, and unharmed. All Drop Pods require is relatively accurate coordinates and you're set to go.

So let's get this thing started. If you have any instances where Thunderhawks are knowingly sent into frontline combat, post it up.

Not sure if it is explicitly said, but blood angels use thunderhawks for rapidly deploying land raiders. Im sure they're not stupid enough to drop right into anti-air but thats the excuse for deepstriking land raiders in the codex

It was the 3rd SW book about the Spear of Garm.
I know the Hawk Lords have an elite wing of Thunderhawk pilots but i'm no sure f they do anything different.
They aren't really combat aircraft as you said it's more dropping people and supplies in the right place.

Soul Hunter. Used to help take down a Warhound Titan.

I think GW intended it to be a rough parallel with RL armies.

Thunderhawk = Blackhawk equivalent. Fire support, extraction.
Drop pod = Parachute equivalent. Quick deployment with minimum warning.

In the short story that fronts the Ultramarines collection, a thunderhawk is used as the deployment and retreival vehicle iirc, and in the HH era they seem to be extensively and almost exclusively used for deployment if the HH books are anything to go by.

Just out of interest, I wonder what vehicle retrieves the pods? A modified Thunderhawk maybe?

All throughout the books in the HH series they use the TBs of the time (different name, can't remember) and the 'new thunderhawks' to move troops into position and assault. I remember this in the first couple for Horus' guys and definitely the EC in their book as well.

Stormbirds are the bigger Thunderhawk family vehicle. They can hold entire companies with support from what the HH books say.

I would like to see a DropPod retrieval vehicle. It probably would be a Transport Thunderhawk. FW makes one.

i can't think of a single Space marine novel that wasn't a short story that didn't have a Thunderhawk.



Drop pods are actually used less often then Thunderhawks(of course this is realitive, they use both quite often) only when troops are needed quickly on the ground and/or there is too much AA fire which makes use of a Thunderhawk suicide.

and Thunderhawks are the only way to deploy vehicles bigger then a dreadnought.

they are also the only way to recover troops besides Teliportation and that doesn't work on vehicles.



Thunderhawks are used for every thing.

after being deployed a Thunderhawk will stick around and provide close air aupport by bombing and strafing the enemy. by sticking close it also allows a swift withdrawal if needed.

Thunderhawks only leave if there is too much AA in the area. Hydra Flak tanks are the biggest danger to them, but they will usually brave other ground fire and enemy air as the Thunderhawk can avoid these easily enough.


in the HH the Thunderhawk was accompanied by the larger Stormbird(which was the primary deployment vehicle) and acted as more of a fire support/light transport. with the loss of the Stormbird STC the Thunderhawk took over it's duties.

Grey Templar wrote:i can't think of a single Space marine novel that wasn't a short story that didn't have a Thunderhawk.

I don't read Space Marine novels much, so that's why I'm not sure about it.

Drop pods are actually used less often then Thunderhawks(of course this is relative, they use both quite often) only when troops are needed quickly on the ground and/or there is too much AA fire which makes use of a Thunderhawk suicide.

Or when precision is required, Warp influence prevents Thunderhawks, etc, etc.

and Thunderhawks are the only way to deploy vehicles bigger then a dreadnought.

Not Thunderhawks. Thunderhawk Transporters. You know, the unarmed variant that can transport two Rhino chassis or one Land Raider? Yeah.

they are also the only way to recover troops besides Teleportation and that doesn't work on vehicles.

Fair enough.

Thunderhawks are used for everything.

If that were true, Drop Pods and Teleportaers wouldn't be kept around

after being deployed a Thunderhawk will stick around and provide close air aupport by bombing and strafing the enemy. by sticking close it also allows a swift withdrawal if needed.
Thunderhawks only leave if there is too much AA in the area. Hydra Flak tanks are the biggest danger to them, but they will usually brave other ground fire and enemy air as the Thunderhawk can avoid these easily enough.

...Really, Hydras are the "biggest danger"? Skyrays, Nightspinners, Monoliths are "non-issues"? Not to mention Anphelion where a Harridan brought down a Thunderhawk.

in the HH the Thunderhawk was accompanied by the larger Stormbird(which was the primary deployment vehicle) and acted as more of a fire support/light transport. with the loss of the Stormbird STC the Thunderhawk took over it's duties.

The Thunderhawk operates in that same role today, just the difference is it mostly does it in space based operations.

I think as far a tabletop goes, they are just off table deploying the troops that end up in the deployment zone.

So they are in combat.

I think they occupy a similar zone as artillery. For a game, they are cool to have, but shouldn't really be part of it.

skrulnik wrote:Soul Hunter. Used to help take down a Warhound Titan.

Also, "rare situation" comes to mind. The Night Lords don't have much in the way of external support from Guard/Naval forces like the Astartes do. Nor does a single Company of the Astartes usually have the equipment to handle a Warhound Titan.

Astartes are supposed to be fantastic at improvising though, so I can't say I'm surprised about it.

So you didn't want examples of them being used in combat.
You wanted examples that you could shoot down as invalid for whatever reason you come up with.

Deploying from Thunderhawks is as common a method as any other that Space Marines have access to.
I base this upon the many Black Library novels I have read and the stories in the Codices.

I make the assumption that the Chapter Master or high ranking Marine in a conflict will choose the method that suits the current needs.
Using the Thunderhawk is just another option.

No, I wanted examples that aren't Chaos Astartes, especially an example like the Night Lords who tend towards being "lightly equipped raiders", even by the standards of the Astartes on both sides.

Kanluwen wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Thunderhawks are used for everything.

If that were true, Drop Pods and Teleportaers wouldn't be kept around

Not true, those are alternatives. Drop Pods and Teleporters might suit certain situations better, but the Thunderhawk is the go to craft for the Astartes whether it be for frontline deployment, fire support, or supply/reinforcment.

"Perhaps more than any other single vehicle, the Thunderhawk gunship is the lynchpin of a Space Marine Chapter. A versatile aircraft combining orbital drop ship, gunship and medium bomber roles, it is a Chapter's fleet of Thunderhawks that allow its forces to rapidly assault anywhere on a planet's surface from the strike cruisers in orbit."

Lets begin:

Codex Space Marines 3rd ED / page 3.: White Panthers assaulting kethra using both, droppods and T-hawks
Codex Space Marines 3rd ED / page 44.: Astartes vessels. You will find there enough T-hawks per battlebarge and chapter fortress to disprove the 'rare relic' comment.
Codex Space Marines 4thED / page 45 : traits. You could take one of the smaller disadvantages and give up access to droppods...
Codex Space Marines 4thED / page 36 : Assaultmarines. May Deepstrike. Deployed from T-hawk...
Codex Space Marines 4thED / page 9 : Angels of death. 3 tactics of the adeptus astartes described and again T-hawks offensively used....
Codex Space Marines 5th ED / page 100 : Jumppacks. Jumppackers deployed from T-hawks at low altitude...should I mention its deepstriking them into battle..?
Codex Space Marines 5th ED / page 92: Kayvaan Shrike. Stranded when his T-hawk was down before extraction. Remeber-> not insertion.
Codex Space Marines 5th ED / page 74: Landspeeder. T-hawks may deploy Landspeeders....how do they deepstrike again..?
Hunt for Voldorius, codex / BL: T-hawks used to deploy. Also to breach the enemys fortress walls.
Codex Space Marines 5th ED / page 38 : Damnos. T-hawks as fire support, for strafing runs and to extract under fire.
Salamander / BL : Salamanders deploy with T-hawk, lose it at a fire support mission but leave onboard fellow SM's T-Hawks.
HH Garro / BL audio. : Stormbird dives down on traitors, kills some, disembarks Garro and leaves to await orders.

Just a few examples.
BL tends to use T-hawks, deployment in dropod is unlikely in their novels.Maybe someone is willing to do all the research and put books/pages/quotes into this thread.

I for one think its pretty awful to claim a T-hawk is a non-combat vehicle like a unarmed and unarmored fuel-truck.

The Apocalypse book has a nice piece of art showing Thunderhawks providing air support to drop podding Space Marines and defending Imperial Guardsmen. Page 190 - 191

Kanluwen wrote:

skrulnik wrote:Soul Hunter. Used to help take down a Warhound Titan.

Also, "rare situation" comes to mind. The Night Lords don't have much in the way of external support from Guard/Naval forces like the Astartes do. Nor does a single Company of the Astartes usually have the equipment to handle a Warhound Titan.

Astartes are supposed to be fantastic at improvising though, so I can't say I'm surprised about it.

Actually some fighters are used as a anti-titan weapon IIRC.

IvanTih wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

skrulnik wrote:Soul Hunter. Used to help take down a Warhound Titan.

Also, "rare situation" comes to mind. The Night Lords don't have much in the way of external support from Guard/Naval forces like the Astartes do. Nor does a single Company of the Astartes usually have the equipment to handle a Warhound Titan.

Astartes are supposed to be fantastic at improvising though, so I can't say I'm surprised about it.

Actually some fighters are used as a anti-titan weapon IIRC.

Ramming whilst full of explosives?

purplefood wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

skrulnik wrote:Soul Hunter. Used to help take down a Warhound Titan.

Also, "rare situation" comes to mind. The Night Lords don't have much in the way of external support from Guard/Naval forces like the Astartes do. Nor does a single Company of the Astartes usually have the equipment to handle a Warhound Titan.

Astartes are supposed to be fantastic at improvising though, so I can't say I'm surprised about it.

Actually some fighters are used as a anti-titan weapon IIRC.

Ramming whilst full of explosives?

No,I am reffering to Space Fighters.

IvanTih wrote:

purplefood wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

skrulnik wrote:Soul Hunter. Used to help take down a Warhound Titan.

Also, "rare situation" comes to mind. The Night Lords don't have much in the way of external support from Guard/Naval forces like the Astartes do. Nor does a single Company of the Astartes usually have the equipment to handle a Warhound Titan.

Astartes are supposed to be fantastic at improvising though, so I can't say I'm surprised about it.

Actually some fighters are used as a anti-titan weapon IIRC.

Ramming whilst full of explosives?

No,I am reffering to Space Fighters.

I think my idea would be more fun... though a tad more expensive.
What are the Space fighters that the SM use?

purplefood wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

purplefood wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

skrulnik wrote:Soul Hunter. Used to help take down a Warhound Titan.

Also, "rare situation" comes to mind. The Night Lords don't have much in the way of external support from Guard/Naval forces like the Astartes do. Nor does a single Company of the Astartes usually have the equipment to handle a Warhound Titan.

Astartes are supposed to be fantastic at improvising though, so I can't say I'm surprised about it.

Actually some fighters are used as a anti-titan weapon IIRC.

Ramming whilst full of explosives?

No,I am reffering to Space Fighters.

I think my idea would be more fun... though a tad more expensive.
What are the Space fighters that the SM use?

Specifically,I remember that Imperial Navy fighters and Vampire(Eldar fighter) were used as a anti-titan weapon since IIRC some fighter are even 200 metres long.
As for Space Marines they don't have anything like a true Space Fighter,closest thing is Thunderhawk.

I thought so then again it probably suffices for their needs so why not.

purplefood wrote:I thought so then again it probably suffices for their needs so why not.

Off-topic:Then we have information from Execution Hour that one salvo from a ship will destroy a Titan Legion and that weapons from titans will barely scratch the ship's hull.
I sometimes hate FW which does everything to avoid orbital bombardment,they manage somehow to do that in Vraks,but as usual FW fluff sucks.
On-topic:I don't think that Thunderhawks can match some Navy fighters because Thunderhawk sometimes seems like a jack of all trades vehicle in my opinion.

IvanTih wrote:

purplefood wrote:I thought so then again it probably suffices for their needs so why not.

Off-topic:Then we have information from Execution Hour that one salvo from a ship will destroy a Titan Legion and that weapons from titans will barely scratch the ship's hull.
I sometimes hate FW which does everything to avoid orbital bombardment,they manage somehow to do that in Vraks,but as usual FW fluff sucks.
On-topic:I don't think that Thunderhawks can match some Navy fighters because Thunderhawk sometimes seems like a jack of all trades vehicle in my opinion.

Yeah the trade-off for armour over manuverability and carrying capacity over fuel and/or ammo storage.

purplefood wrote:
Yeah the trade-off for armour over manuverability nd carrying capacity over fuel and/or ammo storage.

Plus Navy fighters can probably operate longer in space.-Shadow Hour
Lone Wolves says that Thunderhawk is sub-orbital shuttle so that maybe confirms my thesis above.

purplefood wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

skrulnik wrote:Soul Hunter. Used to help take down a Warhound Titan.

Also, "rare situation" comes to mind. The Night Lords don't have much in the way of external support from Guard/Naval forces like the Astartes do. Nor does a single Company of the Astartes usually have the equipment to handle a Warhound Titan.

Astartes are supposed to be fantastic at improvising though, so I can't say I'm surprised about it.

Actually some fighters are used as a anti-titan weapon IIRC.

Ramming whilst full of explosives?

Turbolaser Destructer.

standard Thawk armament with StrD

Something about that wasn't sitting right with me, Grey. I just went and double-checked Apocalypse and noticed something.

It has what amounts to a battle cannon as standard, with the Turbolaser Destructor as an upgrade.

When did that happen?

I would view the Thunderhawk as a low-risk/high precision insertion vehicle and/or general supporting transport rather than something they would send to the front lines.

From the fluff I have read you see them dropping off squads outside the combat zone/enemy positions in sneak/destroy type missions OR used to drop squads behind friendly lines in proper landing zones and the marines then run and skip towards the enemy.

Drop pods seem to used when ultra rapid deployment is required and/or when deploying close to/on top of the enemy.

Also, I've heard of drop pods for Titans, so it is not impossible that there are drop pods of various sizes for transporting other supporting vehicles.

Kanluwen wrote:Something about that wasn't sitting right with me, Grey. I just went and double-checked Apocalypse and noticed something.

It has what amounts to a battle cannon as standard, with the Turbolaser Destructor as an upgrade.

When did that happen?

it's always been there.


for fluff purposes, the Turbolaser is a standard armament for Thunderhawks in an Assault capability. when used to strafe enemy ships they will be armed like this.

the regular Thunderhawk is a more dual purpose gunboat.

then the Thunderhawk transporter loses most of it's guns for the ability to carry large tanks.