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So I'm officially attending Adepticon this year and managed to snag a team for the team tourney as well. The only thing is we're playing heretical and nothing I've got is painted anything like it. Now our theme is based (loosely) off of a Night Lords strike force. So I'm thinking daemons but counts-as a chaos warband. Now I might expand this out and play it in the Championships too (if I can man up and try Daemons in a 4+ game tournament again ) so here are some of the conversion ideas and I kinda wanted an opinion of acceptability or not:

1) Daemon Princes - Spawn built w/Tzeentch heads, normal arms and CSM armor bitz
2) Seekers of Slaanesh - Human outrider/trainees built on Scout Bikers w/guns removed and chaos bitz added.
3) Flesh Hounds - Chaos Warhounds
4) Plague Bearers - Heavily mutated chaos marines. Basically small spawn based of CSM torso's and legs.
5) Horrors - Traitor Guard?
6) Bloodcrushers - CSM bikers on diorama standard 60mm bases w/huge 2-handed power weapons, night lord bitz. Kinda what I view Chosen Nightlords as but just a little slower.
7) Fiends - If I expand into a full blown army (so I only have to bring one) I was thinking ravener lower torsos (i.e. tail) w/Terminator upper torsos w/lightning claws.
8) Bloodthirster - Since I want an all plastic army I was thinking of making some modifications to the new plastic DP. Basically changing his head and giving him a whip to go with the axe.

The only thing I can't settle on would be how I would want to build my Slaanesh Heralds on Chariots though I'm sure it'll come to me.

So the idea is they will all be tied into the nightlords them by the deep blue armor w/metallic trim and lightning. Any power armored model will have the night lord helmet and shoulder pad. I also like the daemon rules as a way to represent the Night Lords striking from everywhere suddenly and without mercy.

So thoughts? And don't forget to vote

Some of the count-as sounds a bit far fetched. Bikers that move as infantry and are really tough because they have a big base? Other bikers that move like cavalry? Chaos marines in power armour that don't have an armour save? Some of the other ideas are pretty good, but I would really rethink at least these three.

I could make the bikers heavier looking? Maybe make the bike more all terrain like those little motor bikes that weren't fast but could climb insane elevations that the army used to use back in the day (we're talking like barely the speed of a jogging man). I mean bloodcrusher don't look like they move like infantry either. But they do.

And dirt bikes as calvary is something a lot of people do for roughriders for mech guard armies and has been accepted for a while. The riders are obviously smaller and weedier than the chaos bikers and so can move faster. So this one probably won't change much to be honest.

I suppose I could just put the spawn parts on scout models as failed aspirants which might work.....less chance to use the shoulder pads but it could work.

All feedback is good feedback

In the fluff it's also stated that the Night Lords dislike mutation and anything demonic in general, so from a fluff standpoint the counts-as is a little shaky.

Actually it doesn't say that Justus. At least not in the Index Astartes article. It does say they are one of the two least mutated legions and rarely use daemons. Doesn't mean they don't (and this warband mostly doesn't). Or that a small warband made up of a whopping 10 Nightlords (13 if you count the "big" dp and 2 smaller ones which I might be painting to be from a different legion) won't turn slightly or at least be mildly affected after 10k years going in and out of warpspace.

And as for the mutated marines I think I'm going to make them failed aspirants and convert scouts with mutations. Basically those dingles failed so now they can eat shots instead of the big kids. So even that portion of the "fluff" would be satisfied.

Hulk,

I think the bloodcrushers would work better not as bikers, but using the new plastic Chaos Knight steeds as a base. Conversely, there's no reason you can't use big burly mutated chaos marines riding the new plastic juggernaughts either... (I think that would be ever cooler because the plastic juggs are awesome.)

I had the same idea about the Bloodthirster/Plastic Demon Prince.

Also, if you're going to keep with a mutated chaos warband, but still be recognizable as demons, then using the correct demon heads on your space marine/human mutants will help identify them. (For example, Plaguebearer heads on your mutated marines would be pretty easy to tell are plaguebearers.)

I was kind of partial to your Mechanicus-Daemon Army. Those were great conversions with a cool paint scheme, yet I had no problems keeping track of what model represented what unit type.

Blame Reece dkellyj. Bastard is making me play something chaos for our team tournament and themed night lordy

I still have the Admech Daemons which I'll be expanding as well as expanding them to counts-as Dark Eldar with a magos biologica bent to it. I.E. lots of needle weaponry But I'll get there later. I've got to get a army built and painted for Adepticon and the team tournament since I don't really do chaos I gotta do it from scratch.

Ask yourself, "Will anyone have a hard time remembering which unit is which?"
As you can see by the poll, the answer is firmly "Yes."
When making counts-as armies, acceptance really goes down hill when the units you use to count-as already have rules.

This one's a bit tricky. Some of these ideas are definitely better than others.

I agree with Whitedragon on all of his thoughts. Using the appropriate type of daemons' heads for at least some of the guys in the PB & Horror squads would help.

Using plastic chaos steeds for the crushers would definitely be a clearer substitution than using bikes, though just modeling Night Lords riding new plastic Crushers would be even more awesome/impressive and even more clear, IMO.

Actually, if had NL riding Crushers for you Bloodcrushers, then you could use the Chaos Steeds for your Seekers! Or just the mounts from units of Marauder Cav, of course, but the chaos steeds are seriously buffer and more badass.

Running down the list:
1. Prince- Sounds fine, as long as any with Wings actually have Wings modeled.
2. Seekers- Sounds okay, but would be a lot clearer if you had them mounted on horses of some kind (see above) so they were clearly Cavalry, not Bikes.
3. Flesh Hounds- Warhounds should be fine. Painting them with a significant amount of red would be nice.
4. Plague B- Sounds cool; some headswaps may help make clearer.
5. Horrors- Could work. Definitely get some head swaps in there, maybe a few Horror arms or something too. Nothing like a couple of mutated bright pink or blue arms in there to help remind people.
6. Crushers- as above.
7. Fiends- Sounds awesome. Love it.
8. 'Thirster- Sounds fine. Should look great.

I hate counts as armies. I can tell you about this lame fella at the last rtt that wanted to use his eldar to count as dark eldar. I told the shop owner this kind of thing will kill his sales so he rightly nixed it. The guy cried like a baby though.

There is a difference bloodthistar between proxy and counts-as. That was proxy.

A fully converted army to a theme can be counts-as. Such as grot guard, anything admech, ork marines.

@Manna & Whitedragon

It's a work in progress. I might not even be doing it now honestly as the amount of work I'd be putting into it for a single tournament (already have a deamon army i like that's count-as admech) just might not be worth it. But those ideas laid out by the two of you would indeed help though I'd be reluctant to put them on horses or crushers as the idea of the crusher conversion was slightly slowly chosen status style nightlords not one that had gone over to khorne. But it's still a possibility.

@ph34r

I doubt when playing it would be an issue honestly. And a poll with a whopping 25 votes that's pretty evenly split (I convert well so most of the middle column wouldn't have a problem with it) isn't showing people would clearly have an issue. I agree it's a concern. I actually take great pains to make it as easy as possible. In my opinion it only goes down hill when the work and thought isn't put into it. Being daemons does make it harder since all upgrades on daemons aside from command stuff isn't modeled at all.

Brad, what's with you and Counts As? ><

I'm not a fan of counts as because what you see on the table isn't what it is. Which leads to mistakes. I had an interesting conversation with Mike Clark about this regarding the SVDM, where there is *no* counts as allowed....because the first time a model counting as another model gets mistaken for its original model or not treated accordingly - a player on the table has been taken advantage of.

I remember seeing your daemon *counts as* army at the Nova Open and being grateful that I didn't have to play against it because none of your models were daemons and I can imagine having issues keeping track of what models were which daemons - a codex I'm not intimately familiar with *anyway*.


*EDIT* Also, I don't think your poll options are....what they should be. They're evenly split amongst all options right now. There should be an option that says, "If I can't tell by looking at the model what it is, it should not be allowed." I bet that option would get 75% votes.

Well Dash for fellows like you I have a wonderful picture based cheat sheet that shows a picture and labels what the model is. One quick glance answers your question. And I answer your question if you have one. You wouldn't know what's what in some armies anyway because you don't have the knowledge of the codex so what's the difference for you

And your mistaking Mikes policy actually. Counts-as such as my Admech Daemons would be allowed under his rules. His rule is pretty much an anti-proxy rule as covered above. Honestly at least you can look at my "heralds" and know they have bolt/gaze which you can't be sure of when looking at a normal tzeentch herald

Well, I'm easily confused. A cheat sheet would be good. Double fun points if you label it "Counts As for Dummies."

Well of course. It'll have your avatar next to it if I bring it to a tournament your at just in case

But in all seriousness I do take the idea of confusion on my opponents part very seriously. I've gone so far as to allow a change in movement in the shooting phase more than once when the person was to shy to ask what the unit was and had moved thinking the unit something other than what it was. Which is why I put up a poll. Just wanted to see if it's feasible really

Seriously who wants to have to use a cheat sheet throughout a game? To me IG is IG, Marines are Marines... Yada yada yada - you know the drill.

A true hobbyist art thou bloodthirstar

If i get to play against a beautiful army and my opponent provides me with the materials (such as an army list and cheat sheet) I'm willing to do the mental lifting of remembering. But i have a tendency to memorize codexes so once I know what codex I'm playing as long as the guy has done at least the minimal WYSIWYG work I can normally work out what it is without a cheat sheet

Depends on what your in the hobby for. I'm in it to play with cool armies and win games. Some people are only in it to win games. Some people are only in it to paint. Each their own.

Its a bit rough to expect your opponent to have to keep checking your cheat sheet.

And besides if I pay my money to enter a tournament its to play fully painted armies in a competitive environment not to spend 3 hours cross refereing between a cheat sheet, army list AND trying to play a game.

In a count as army, silhouette is key. A model has to look similar enough in size and shape to keep the confusion to a minimum. Defender Guardians and Storm Guardians could convincingly count-as Warriors and Wytches (with the proper special weapons, of course). A Wave Serpent couldn't count-as a Raider, though. This is a problem I have with most Chaos Demon proxies - a Dark Elf Cold One is in no way similar to a fiend. My comments:

"1) Daemon Princes - Spawn built w/Tzeentch heads, normal arms and CSM armor bitz"
Not big enough, really. A Daemon Prince has a lat of mass. Spawn count work for Fiends, though. Here's a shot of my brother's Demon army:

The Prince is about twice the size of the Spawn and the Fiend. Couldn't work in my eyes. Use the normal prince kit.

"2) Seekers of Slaanesh - Human outrider/trainees built on Scout Bikers w/guns removed and chaos bitz added."
As others said, something like Marauder Cav would work better. Bikes and Cav have similar but opposite movement types and you don't want to confuse this.

"3) Flesh Hounds - Chaos Warhounds"
Absolutely.

"4) Plague Bearers - Heavily mutated chaos marines. Basically small spawn based of CSM torso's and legs."
Not a bad idea.

"5) Horrors - Traitor Guard?"
Eh. I don't see why they'd get better guns than Sanguinary Guard. A unit of sorcerers would make more sense, but they don't really fit with Night Lords. Not sure.

"6) Bloodcrushers - CSM bikers on diorama standard 60mm bases w/huge 2-handed power weapons, night lord bitz. Kinda what I view Chosen Nightlords as but just a little slower."
As others said, Night Lords riding Bloodcrushers would be best. Bloodcrushers are too slow to be bikes.

"7) Fiends - If I expand into a full blown army (so I only have to bring one) I was thinking ravener lower torsos (i.e. tail) w/Terminator upper torsos w/lightning claws. "
Could work but I think Spawn work better here, see the above photo. No armor save hurts the Terminator idea.

"8) Bloodthirster - Since I want an all plastic army I was thinking of making some modifications to the new plastic DP. Basically changing his head and giving him a whip to go with the axe." Could work but might be confused with your Princes. Maybe the ubiquitous Barlog conversion?

MSP's got an excellent point as far as profile goes. There was a team of guys at this year's Adepticon TT who had a counts-as IG Squat army. It looked pretty cool, but their "Chimera" had between 50% & 75% of the armor surface area, and so they had a massive advantage in getting cover, as well as in drawing LOS past their own vehicles.

Yeah, silhouette is important. It's one of the reasons I haven't done a admech guard army since I'd like to use rhino chasis but they are to much small and not long enough so that idea had to go in the trash can

On a side note the Spawn DP's are the same size as many of the metal DP's. And i would actually build up the base to make them even taller in an effort to maintain the size and difficulty gaining cover (not to mention it's pointless w/Tzeentch DP's anyway since they "always" have cover).

Hulk,

As a person who loves counts-as armies... I can only play them if they are extremely well done. I hadn't thought of it in the way of 'silhouettes' but I think that's important too. You would have to bulk up and build up the spawn to make it anything like a DP, but that's one of your more workable ideas.

Beyond silhouette, it has to make sense looking at the model. I agree with pretty much everyone that the bloodcrushers being bikes isn't so great. Also, heavily armored models being models with no armor is out for me too. I do like the marauder cav idea for Seekers. That's solid as a straight swap.

You're an awesome player and hobbyist so I won't insult your work. I'm sure you'll do this awesome no matter what, but I think to appease the people (even me sometimes) who can and will get confused you have to make the counts-as very recognizable. AdMech daemon armies are sweet, and a lot of the time the swarms vs normal models vs mounted etc makes total visual sense. Guard shooting 3 shots a turn as traitor guard horrors makes very little visual sense. That's more proxy to me than counts-as even though I see where you were going with it.

Just a humorous aside, I can't remember if it was 2003 or 2004, but I played my 3rd game or so at one of the top tables of the UKGT against a squat land train with dwarves carrying sluggas and choppas that counted as speed freaks and the 'train' broke apart into incoherent metal boxes hurling towards me with 'Orks' that all looked exactly the same to me. By the time I figured out which squads were full of burnas, or 'ard boys, etc... they were all over my Templars wrecking my face 'deceptively' because nobs just looked like more dwarves! It was after I lost that game horribly that I started to take a deeper look at what makes a successful counts-as army. That guy's army should be on one of those cheat sheets you print out with a big red slash through it.

I actually get excited when I see a nicely converted "counts as" army and would be glad to play against one. I think a lot of other players would as well in a casual setting.

I'd be concerned with taking an army that is so deeply "counts as" to a tourney, especially a major tourney like Adepticon. You'll probably run across many players who resent having to play an army that may confuse them. Even with the cheat sheet the game will slow down as your opponent has to study the table each turn and reference the cheat sheet.

Adepticon also is very competitive and you may find people you beat grumbling a lot and making your tournament experience less than enjoyable.

I've been thinking about this and I think the problem is that you don't really have a good theme going. It's almost like you're doing a counts-as just to do it.

Hulksmash wrote:There is a difference bloodthistar between proxy and counts-as. That was proxy.

A fully converted army to a theme can be counts-as. Such as grot guard, anything admech, ork marines.

Right, but your army isn't "all grots are guardsmen, armed with the correct weaponry and clear counts as vehicles". It's not "admech, with custom vehicles and weapons to represent the codex".
Your plan is "use an army that already exists to represent a similar army that also already exists, using inconsistent counts-as and dissimilar unit sizes, and nonsensical weapons counts as"
That's a definite no go. You would have to try a lot harder to make your latest counts-as as legitimate as admech or grot guard.

@ph34r

I doubt when playing it would be an issue honestly. And a poll with a whopping 25 votes that's pretty evenly split (I convert well so most of the middle column wouldn't have a problem with it) isn't showing people would clearly have an issue. I agree it's a concern. I actually take great pains to make it as easy as possible. In my opinion it only goes down hill when the work and thought isn't put into it. Being daemons does make it harder since all upgrades on daemons aside from command stuff isn't modeled at all.

Really? You doubt that it would be an issue? Maybe because... you made up the counts-as, and it makes sense to you. It won't make sense to your opponent in a pick up game, or even worse, a tournament. Your counts-as unit pairs just don't make enough sense, and are too close to obviously units from other armies in some cases. You have to justify everything that your units have, not just say "eh, these units are kinda fast units, i'll count-as them with another kinda fast unit and everything will be gravy".


1) Daemon Princes - Spawn built w/Tzeentch heads, normal arms and CSM armor bitz
Too small. Why not just use DPs? I honestly don't understand why they would need a counts-as.

2) Seekers of Slaanesh - Human outrider/trainees built on Scout Bikers w/guns removed and chaos bitz added.
Why the invuln? Why the inhuman statline and abilities? Are these the superfast magic reflex troopers? Scout bikers already have a statline, and it is not a Seekers statline.

3) Flesh Hounds - Chaos Warhounds
Close enough, but why not just use flesh hounds?

4) Plague Bearers - Heavily mutated chaos marines. Basically small spawn based of CSM torso's and legs.
This could work, but you ride a fine line between plague marine and spawn. Plague bearers have distinctive attributes like weapon and head that people recognize.

5) Horrors - Traitor Guard?
This makes absolutely no sense. No.

6) Bloodcrushers - CSM bikers on diorama standard 60mm bases w/huge 2-handed power weapons, night lord bitz. Kinda what I view Chosen Nightlords as but just a little slower.
Bikes aren't bloodcrushers. Bikes have rules. They're listed under "CHAOS BIKERS" in the CSM codex. You will find that almost every stat is different than bloodcrushers.
Now, if you tried really had by beefing up the bikes hugely to represent the bonuses granted by the bloodcrusher, this would be a cool idea, but I think we both know that you wouldn't do that.

7) Fiends - If I expand into a full blown army (so I only have to bring one) I was thinking ravener lower torsos (i.e. tail) w/Terminator upper torsos w/lightning claws.
A creative idea, but I'm not sold on it. The stats still just don't match up, it's a jumble of other units.

8) Bloodthirster - Since I want an all plastic army I was thinking of making some modifications to the new plastic DP. Basically changing his head and giving him a whip to go with the axe.
Bloodthirsters are a unit. DP are a unit. You are wanting to proxy one as the other. I wouldn't even dignify this as calling it a counts-as, this is real bad. Don't do this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:I've been thinking about this and I think the problem is that you don't really have a good theme going. It's almost like you're doing a counts-as just to do it.

I agree with MasterSlowPoke.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:I've been thinking about this and I think the problem is that you don't really have a good theme going. It's almost like you're doing a counts-as just to do it.

Agreed. Didn't notice what the real issue was in the beginning, but this seems to be it

@ph34r

I'm not going to argue with you man. You did miss several points from earlier in the thread that addressed some of the stuff you ranted about but it's your opinion and your entitled to it. But you are making gross assumptions on the level conversions that would be done and are making it sound like I'm just going to plop the model down as is. Bear in mind what was written is a baseline to grow from. Most people didn't like my Admech Daemons when I started a topic about it either.

@MSP and Illumini

It is suppose to be a warband style force based on the old Lost and the Damned book they had out during the Eye of Terror. I can see how that can get lost when discussing WYSIWYG though

In regards to doing counts-as just to do it there are two main reasons I'm considering it:

1. I really, really don't like the daemon models but really, really enjoy the codex.

2. Counts-as armies are eye stoppers, they draw people into looking at your army and remembering it. This is crucial sometimes to your overall scores.

Oh, and a side note:

The horrors would now be represented by heavy weapon toting scouts w/chaos style heads. Or possibly guard with multi-shot weapons (modified burst cannons/storm bolters) with chaos style heads. Traitor guard probably wasn't detailed enough

Heya Hulk, I was behind you at NOVA on game 1 (an IG player) and we chatted about your AD-mech guys a bit, thought I'd throw in my .02.

For starters, for people who are skeptical that this may be your routine "counts as" that most of us (myself included) hate (I have models for x book but want to play x books rules instead), that isn't how Hulk has operated in the past. His conversions are extensive and purposed, so the effort will be there. That being said, if playing against your ad-mech, I would have been royally confused (even with a flip chart).

The conversions in my opinion hinge upon whether the model is easily identified AND remembered by your opponent. A daemon prince converted to have large wings and a whip is an easy thing to remember as a bloodthirster for instance, and as you said, base size and silhouette are the most important characteristics.

1) Daemon Princes - Spawn built w/Tzeentch heads, normal arms and CSM armor bitz
-As long as these are large enough to mimic your typical daemon prince (and not just spawns with headswaps) I see no problem.

2) Seekers of Slaanesh - Human outrider/trainees built on Scout Bikers w/guns removed and chaos bitz added.
-This one I'm iffy on and think needs some more thought, unless they're drastically different than scout bikers in appearance (something I think would be hard to achieve) they're going to be confusing

3) Flesh Hounds - Chaos Warhounds
-A hound is a hound, it's still a GW model, its got the same base, sounds good to me!

4) Plague Bearers - Heavily mutated chaos marines. Basically small spawn based of CSM torso's and legs.
-The paint theme will help you out here, as they'll need to be the putrid green/brown ish in order to be recognizable as plaguebearers. If they're a CSM with mutations and painted in nightlord colors, they'll be confusing

5) Horrors - Traitor Guard?
-This was my biggest issue when I first read your post, but looking at your further description, I can see it. I'd try to keep some "horror" colors tied into your conversion and have limbs morphing into weapons possibly, but as long as size and weapon fit that idea of what a horror is, I don't see an issue

6) Bloodcrushers - CSM bikers on diorama standard 60mm bases w/huge 2-handed power weapons, night lord bitz. Kinda what I view Chosen Nightlords as but just a little slower.
-Most people worry about this, however having seen it done (Rich, aka Frgsnwntr on dakka) providing the bike is sufficiently beefed out and the base is right, work very nicely and aren't confusing.

7) Fiends - If I expand into a full blown army (so I only have to bring one) I was thinking ravener lower torsos (i.e. tail) w/Terminator upper torsos w/lightning claws.
-These will fit nicely and have lines/designs that fit the real models, so I don't see a big issue here either

8) Bloodthirster - Since I want an all plastic army I was thinking of making some modifications to the new plastic DP. Basically changing his head and giving him a whip to go with the axe.
-No issue, just sounds like a bloodthirster conversion to me, not a counts as

I think the main issue with counts-as, as many have said, is first: how confusing is it (I found your admech very confusing) and second: how well is it done (the ad mech were very well done). The conversions listed here seemed much more straightforward than your admech, as such, I vote go for it!

Hulksmash wrote:@ph34r

I'm not going to argue with you man. You did miss several points from earlier in the thread that addressed some of the stuff you ranted about but it's your opinion and your entitled to it. But you are making gross assumptions on the level conversions that would be done and are making it sound like I'm just going to plop the model down as is. Bear in mind what was written is a baseline to grow from. Most people didn't like my Admech Daemons when I started a topic about it either.

I am very disappointed that you seem afraid to try to tackle the issues I brought up. Believe me, I read the entire thread before posting. Some of my points may seem slightly redundant, but the majority are important issues that you haven't answered for at all. I dare you to respond to them with reasonable arguments, if you can't then you really shouldn't make the army.

Here's them again for your convenience. Remember, it's up to you to make counts-as that make sense and don't make the opponent think of another unit. Almost all of your proposals fail this, as is natural to expect when you are counting as chaos daemons with chaos marines, units that already have rules and are well known. If you have a master plan that assuages all of these concerns like you purport, instead of saying "yeah man you assumed way too much I'm not gonna even talk to you", why don't you say "hey, you assumed wrong, here are my cool plans to make the army reasonable". I'd love to hear them!

1) Daemon Princes - Spawn built w/Tzeentch heads, normal arms and CSM armor bitz
Too small. Why not just use DPs? I honestly don't understand why they would need a counts-as.

2) Seekers of Slaanesh - Human outrider/trainees built on Scout Bikers w/guns removed and chaos bitz added.
Why the invuln? Why the inhuman statline and abilities? Are these the superfast magic reflex troopers? Scout bikers already have a statline, and it is not a Seekers statline.

3) Flesh Hounds - Chaos Warhounds
Close enough, but why not just use flesh hounds?

4) Plague Bearers - Heavily mutated chaos marines. Basically small spawn based of CSM torso's and legs.
This could work, but you ride a fine line between plague marine and spawn. Plague bearers have distinctive attributes like weapon and head that people recognize.

5) Horrors - Traitor Guard?
This makes absolutely no sense. No.

6) Bloodcrushers - CSM bikers on diorama standard 60mm bases w/huge 2-handed power weapons, night lord bitz. Kinda what I view Chosen Nightlords as but just a little slower.
Bikes aren't bloodcrushers. Bikes have rules. They're listed under "CHAOS BIKERS" in the CSM codex. You will find that almost every stat is different than bloodcrushers.
Now, if you tried really had by beefing up the bikes hugely to represent the bonuses granted by the bloodcrusher, this would be a cool idea, but I think we both know that you wouldn't do that.

7) Fiends - If I expand into a full blown army (so I only have to bring one) I was thinking ravener lower torsos (i.e. tail) w/Terminator upper torsos w/lightning claws.
A creative idea, but I'm not sold on it. The stats still just don't match up, it's a jumble of other units.

8) Bloodthirster - Since I want an all plastic army I was thinking of making some modifications to the new plastic DP. Basically changing his head and giving him a whip to go with the axe.
Bloodthirsters are a unit. DP are a unit. You are wanting to proxy one as the other. I wouldn't even dignify this as calling it a counts-as, this is real bad. Don't do this.