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 Melissia wrote:
Or rather, it should show to you my opinion on power armor-- it's awesome to have, but it's still better to not get shot in the first place.

I completely agree. I can see no positive factors in being shot, no matter to which degree you and/or your armour resist said attack.

I mean, even if a Guardsman fires a shot at a Baneblade with his Autopistol, it's bad. It might not blow up the tank, but it'll scratch the paint!

Getting shot is always bad, though to different degrees.

Actually, I can think of several situations where it could blow the tank up, or at least a section of it. They're just exceedingly unlikely situations, and in any case the soldier is unlikely to survive any of them.

However, a Space Marine is far, FAR less protected than a Baneblade, so it's really not an analogy that works.

 Melissia wrote:
Actually, I can think of several situations where it could blow the tank up, or at least a section of it. They're just exceedingly unlikely situations, and in any case the soldier is unlikely to survive any of them.

However, a Space Marine is far, FAR less protected than a Baneblade, so it's really not an analogy that works.

A Space Marine is undoubtedly not as tough as a Baneblade.

However, it was not actually an analogy. Just an example that even if you take a rather bottom level (For 40K) weapon and shoot at something really really tough, it is always bad. Just, sometimes it is not bad to a particularly massive degree.

I'd argue that it would be rather difficult for it to blow the tank up. Maybe hit the driver through the vision slit, or at least crack its armoured glass, assuming it has that (Not 100% on whether Baneblades have armoured glass on the driver's vision slit) but to blow it up you'd need to hit the fuel or the ammunition, both of which are safely stored behind a ludicrous amount of metal plate.

I'd raise an eyebrow if I read about someone blowing up a BB with an autopistol, honestly.

But I digress.


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Also, I can't help but wonder...

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Marines

The Space Marines or Adeptus Astartes are foremost amongst the defenders of humanity, the greatest of the Emperor of Mankind's warriors.

Clad in ancient Power Armour and wielding the most potent weapons known to Man, the Space Marines are terrifying foes and their devotion to the Emperor and the Imperium of Man is unyielding.

The Space Marines are the Imperium of Man’s supreme warriors. Genetically-enhanced to be the ultimate soldiers of Mankind, they are far stronger and more resilient than ordinary human beings.

He is protected by a suit of Power Armour, shielding him from the fiercest of enemy fire whilst simultaneously strengthening his blows and allowing him to survive the most hostile of environments.

The Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes are the greatest fighting force of the Imperium of Man. Genetically-enhanced to serve Mankind as humanity's ultimate warriors, they are far stronger and more resilient than even the most exceptional unenhanced human beings.

*Sniff* *Sniff* Do I smell rustled jimmies?

;D

 Melissia wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Explain Orks, Astartes, Chaos Astartes, and the big Nids eating lasguns.

They don't.

Orks get cut down by lasgun fire. They just take more hits than humans do because of innate biological toughness (They also are more likely to recover from said wounds than astartes or humans are), but they still get cut down by it. The Imperial Guard defeats Orks with massed lasgun fire on such a regular basis that most of the time it's not even mentioned-- it's assumed.

Why you mentioned Astartes twice, I have no clue. Maybe you're obsessed with them. But Marines also get killed by lasgun fire, both loyalist traitor. Less often than Orks because of armor (power armor is superior to slabs of raw iron stapled in to the flesh), but they are not impervious to it either.

And really, are you actually trying to claim that a Space Marine is equivalent to a Carnifex? Because I'm going point at you. And while so pointing, I am going to start laughing. Rolling on the floor may result. Laughing will continue, regardless.

MarsNZ wrote:
I'm almost certain you mean "the 5.0cm gun of the Panzer MkIII" seeing as 7.5cm Stugs didn't appear till '42, and didn't have much trouble with T-34s.

No, I think I'll stick with the comparison I made.

Again, there's numerous examples of Orks, Nids, Astartes, and Chaos Astartes tanking lasguns flawlessly- even getting shot in their bare faces and simply shaking it off. There isn't 'opinions', there's numerous events in the bulk of BL's work on Space Marines and the Horus Heresy. Any time a lasgun punches clean through PA is more easily handwaved as the artificer taking terrible care of said armor (not to mention those often shot would be Chaos Astartes, who typically are horribly outfitted compared to their loyalist and non-mutated kin).

And Astartes is mentioned twice because Chaos Space Marines are completely different than their loyalist counterparts, as CSM's are heavily mutated and are outfitted with different, typically older gear or poor copies that are jury-rigged together if they lack access to artificers or Hereteks.

Also, depending on the taken calcs for Astartes, they go above and beyond the realm of a Carnifex. Faster-than-light reaction times/speed because the high end of W40K is high.

I want your babies, too.

Also, again it should be noted that handwaving 70% of the Black Library simply because 'you dun like it' is ridiculous and trying to make it something it isn't, especially when as I stated earlier, hand-waving it is MORE complicated than accepting that W40K is as realistic and sensible as Marvel and DC comics, what with nearly every single race being a bunch of reality warpers operating with 'clap your hands if you believe' magic made the toys of four eldritch gods living in a dimension WHERE THERE IS NO BLOODY CAUSALITY.

W40K has and never have a shred of realism to it, nor sanity for that matter. If you, peregrine, and everyone else that takes offense to GW's portrayal of Astartes (especially post 2000 and later) to offense, you should also first take a long look at the factions you seem to hold higher than the Adeptus Astartes, who are in some degrees even more absurd than space marines themselves, what with most of the IG vehicles being designed by an inebriated armchair general with his face firmly wedged in a textbook on world war one with designs that make less sense than that of terminator armor.

As again, to repeat, W40K isn't realistic. It can't lay claim to even the smallest claim of realism. It has the logic of most modern comic-universe such as 616-Earth and any attempt to claim that it is realistic or serious, or try to warp it into realism is bloody hilarious. Nearly every bit of it is broken, stupid, nonsensical, absurd, and completely unreasonable and unrealistic, and this applies to all the factions in near equal amount.

(And the tank sloped armor comparison was fairly nonsensical as well, as energy weapons do not function at all like kinetic physical weapons. A better comparison would be PA ceramite armor being a silicon glove with the lasgun being a directional heat source like an oven-top flame. The glove can survived prolonged exposure and the hand inside it, [i]because that's its job.[/i[)

 Wyzilla wrote:

Spoiler:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I want your babies, too.

Lolwut?

Also, again it should be noted that handwaving 70% of the Black Library simply because 'you dun like it' is ridiculous and trying to make it something it isn't, especially when as I stated earlier, hand-waving it is MORE complicated than accepting that W40K is as realistic and sensible as Marvel and DC comics, what with nearly every single race being a bunch of reality warpers operating with 'clap your hands if you believe' magic made the toys of four eldritch gods living in a dimension WHERE THERE IS NO BLOODY CAUSALITY.

W40K has and never have a shred of realism to it, nor sanity for that matter. If you, peregrine, and everyone else that takes offense to GW's portrayal of Astartes (especially post 2000 and later) to offense, you should also first take a long look at the factions you seem to hold higher than the Adeptus Astartes, who are in some degrees even more absurd than space marines themselves, what with most of the IG vehicles being designed by an inebriated armchair general with his face firmly wedged in a textbook on world war one with designs that make less sense than that of terminator armor.

As again, to repeat, W40K isn't realistic. It can't lay claim to even the smallest claim of realism. It has the logic of most modern comic-universe such as 616-Earth and any attempt to claim that it is realistic or serious, or try to warp it into realism is bloody hilarious. Nearly every bit of it is broken, stupid, nonsensical, absurd, and completely unreasonable and unrealistic, and this applies to all the factions in near equal amount.

(And the tank sloped armor comparison was fairly nonsensical as well, as energy weapons do not function at all like kinetic physical weapons. A better comparison would be PA ceramite armor being a silicon glove with the lasgun being a directional heat source like an oven-top flame. The glove can survived prolonged exposure and the hand inside it, [i]because that's its job.[/i[)

So what do you do when an Astartes gets killed by a lasgun in the fluff? Just handwave it away?

In Storm of Iron, several Marines are killed by lasgun fire. In The First and Only, an Iron Warrior gets his head shot off by a guardsman with a lasgun.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So what do you do when an Astartes gets killed by a lasgun in the fluff? Just handwave it away?

In Storm of Iron, several Marines are killed by lasgun fire. In The First and Only, an Iron Warrior gets his head shot off by a guardsman with a lasgun.

The SoB are also wary of lasgun fire from Guardsmen they were fighting in Faith and Fire, and their armour provides as much protection as Marine armour. Not necessarily true, as BL authors aren't always consistent on small details like that (or, at times, big details either), but there's certainly examples of lasguns being a threat to power armoured infantry within the wider fluff.

In First Heretic a Word Bearer Chaplain even gets killed when a tribal thrusts a pointy stick through his neck joint. The reply given iirc was something like it would have been funny if it wasnt so terribly sad. When a pointy stick can defeat power armour, I can see no reason why a lasgun couldnt. There is also the fact that the neck joint is called the ''shell-trap'', deflected shots from the chest can blow of the head or most of it through this vunerability. If lasguns couldnt, Cadians would only be known as those glorified speedbumps in the way of Chaos Marines.

Technically a lasgun can not penetrate Power Armour if it could than any unit in the game that wore power armour would not get an armour save against the lasgun. However that dose not mean a Space Marine or any other power armourd infantry unit is impervious to these weapons, large volume of shots will cause a problem one will get lucky and hit somewhere that is not well protected ie the joints or the visors and possibly kill or incapacitate the trooper.

Can a lasgun penetrate Power Armour no it can not. But the person wearing the armour is not 100% covered by said armour so can a lasgun hit one of the very few spots that is not protected yes and cause problems yes. The thing is that power armour is very formitble and can take a lot of punishment allowing the trooper in the armour to take more punishment than a normal trooper but it dose not make them invisible just a lot tougher to kill.

Oh and the whole Tank killing thing I used an assault squad that was very effective at destroying my opponents armoured units jump packs and melta bombs are a wonderful combination.

 Troike wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So what do you do when an Astartes gets killed by a lasgun in the fluff? Just handwave it away?

In Storm of Iron, several Marines are killed by lasgun fire. In The First and Only, an Iron Warrior gets his head shot off by a guardsman with a lasgun.

The SoB are also wary of lasgun fire from Guardsmen they were fighting in Faith and Fire, and their armour provides as much protection as Marine armour. Not necessarily true, as BL authors aren't always consistent on small details like that (or, at times, big details either), but there's certainly examples of lasguns being a threat to power armoured infantry within the wider fluff.

I'd honestly doubt that Sororitas Power Armour provides as much protection, though. Marines are stronger, faster and have superior stamina even than what is proportional to their size, so they can wear more armour without negative effects. Even then, if a Heavy Bolter shell does not pierce a Sororitas' armour (Which is not unlikely) then the sheer impact and concussion of a grotesquely large calibre explosive shell does nasty things to bones and internal organs. We know that Marines are far more resistant to this as well. Resilience is not just armour.

A lasgun can't penetrate the armoured parts of the armour but that's not the point of lasguns or guardsmen the fact is there would be 20+ guardsmen shooting at the same marine and at least one of those shots has to get lucky hitting the marine in joints or even the vision lenses. Sheer weight of fire makes lasguns effective

But the marine who is better trained can probably use cover better, and his power armour has many aim assist available making every shot count which with a Bolter ( that if guardsmen are stood in formation is said to be able to completely decimate the guardsman that is shot and either kill or seriously wound the men either side and the man behind) you will have to factor in panic which is a big thing guard suffer from because there only human

 Troike wrote:
He lost entire right side of his body, and only survived thanks to the combined efforts of a Lord Apothecary and a Forge Master. I would hardly call that "tanking it". If he wasn't in a position where his fellow Marines could retrieve and rebuild him, he would have been rather dead.

And note that this was a combi-melta (IOW, less powerful than a standard melta gun) shot from a dying marine lying on the ground as Huron walked past, so it probably wasn't even aimed very well. Conclusion: a glancing blow from a scaled-down melta gun against a major character in terminator armor is still enough to inflict injuries that would be fatal without miraculous intervention, and would certainly cripple the victim thoroughly enough that they would be instantly out of the battle.

Also, don't forget that, as a very low-end guess, there are millions of melta guns and similar instant-death weapons for each space marine involved in a planetary-scale war.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
'In fluff Marines are powerful enough to survive direct artillery hits and tank almost everything.

But that just doesn't make any sense. Even if the armor somehow holds the shock of the impact would be fatal to whoever is inside (and remember, marines are modified humans, not solid lumps of iron). It would be one of those situations where you hose out the remains of the previous occupant and give the armor to the newest recruit. And it also doesn't make sense from a storytelling perspective, if marines can just ignore anything short of a titan then who cares about their stories? There's nothing interesting about invulnerable marines slaughtering everything in their path without facing even the slightest danger. I just can't see any appeal at all in that interpretation.


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Alpha 1 wrote:
Technically a lasgun can not penetrate Power Armour if it could than any unit in the game that wore power armour would not get an armour save against the lasgun.

Err, no, that's not how armor saves work. The armor save represents the chance of stopping the shot, period, including hit location/chance of the armor failing under the impact/etc. Denying armor saves entirely represents weapons that are so powerful relative to the armor that there is no possible chance that the armor will do anything to reduce the damage.

As Wyzilla pointed out earlier, you are grasping for logic in a universe so utterly illogical that even the laws of physics don't apply. (Hello Titans. Hello almost everything in the Ork & Tyranid codex. Hello everything remotely Warp-related.) The only real 'rule' in 40K that trumps everything is the rule of cool, and it is defining for the entire setting.

As for my personal opinion, I felt that since Astartes easily best most lesser foes, it becomes all the more epic when they fight enemies that are their match. (Big angry Nobz, equally big and angry Tyranid Warriors, and so on.)
But hey, if you prefer the DKoKverse, then go ahead.

Going off Dark Heresy (which is much closer to the fluff), Power Armour has an AP of 8 (meaning that they ignore 8 points of damage). Lasgun deal 1d10+3 damage, meaning that lasguns can deal a maximum of 5 damage. Space marine will probably have a toughness bonus of 4, so the lasgun can deal one point of damage. It would take a while, but guardsmen could kill space marines through mass firepower (the lasgun is longer ranged than a bolt gun, and can fire three shots when firing semi-auto and gains +10 BS when firing semi, so it would be hard, but possible).

 Wyzilla wrote:
Faster-than-light reaction times/speed because the high end of W40K is high.

That's not the high end, that's the "dear god this author is an idiot" end.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Faster-than-light reaction times/speed because the high end of W40K is high.

That's not the high end, that's the "dear god this author is an idiot" end.

Ah yes, insults, always great as a justification to dismiss fluff one does not like.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
But hey, if you prefer the DKoKverse, then go ahead.

No, I just prefer the version of 40k where the setting is actually grim and dark, not just a token pretense of grim and dark to make the heroes look even more heroic. I want the version of 40k where the greatest space marine hero dies alone and unmourned after being shot in the back with a lasgun by some anonymous cultist, his sad devotion to his pathetic corpse "god" forgotten by a heartless universe before his blood even finishes spilling out onto the battlefield. I want the version of 40k where insane religious zealots fight stubbornly to the end instead of retreating like sensible people and are slaughtered (leaving the city they were supposed to defend open to being slaughtered as well) because power armor isn't going to protect you against a 10:1 numbers advantage. I want the version of 40k where whole chapters are wiped out by artillery barrages and the nearby IG regiment commits suicide in despair because they realize that their only hope of not becoming Tyranid snacks just died with those marines. Etc.

Invulnerable marines laughing off any attempts to kill them is just a boring generic superhero fantasy.


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 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Ah yes, insults, always great as a justification to dismiss fluff one does not like.

Sorry, but that's the truth. FTL reflexes is just such an unbelievably stupid concept that the only thing you can do is dismiss it as bad writing.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Going off Dark Heresy (which is much closer to the fluff), Power Armour has an AP of 8 (meaning that they ignore 8 points of damage). Lasgun deal 1d10+3 damage, meaning that lasguns can deal a maximum of 5 damage. Space marine will probably have a toughness bonus of 4, so the lasgun can deal one point of damage. It would take a while, but guardsmen could kill space marines through mass firepower (the lasgun is longer ranged than a bolt gun, and can fire three shots when firing semi-auto and gains +10 BS when firing semi, so it would be hard, but possible).

To be honest TB in FFG games is also capable of having a standard guardsman becoming capable of tanking las shots. From what I have seen

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Going off Dark Heresy (which is much closer to the fluff), Power Armour has an AP of 8 (meaning that they ignore 8 points of damage). Lasgun deal 1d10+3 damage, meaning that lasguns can deal a maximum of 5 damage. Space marine will probably have a toughness bonus of 4, so the lasgun can deal one point of damage. It would take a while, but guardsmen could kill space marines through mass firepower (the lasgun is longer ranged than a bolt gun, and can fire three shots when firing semi-auto and gains +10 BS when firing semi, so it would be hard, but possible).

To be honest TB in FFG games is also capable of having a standard guardsman becoming capable of tanking las shots. From what I have seen

Guardsmen have a TB of 3 (usualy) and their armour is completely ignored by the MP las cannon )which is weaker than normal lascannon. It does 5d10+10 damage, so unless you are really unlucky, the guardsman is going to die. The tanking part mostly comes from PCs who you have to get a bunch of damage on the crit table to kill. I do see where you are coming from, but FF games are probably more fluff specific than reg 40k (ignoring deathwatch of course, but mostly because you play as a movie marine).

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Going off Dark Heresy (which is much closer to the fluff), Power Armour has an AP of 8 (meaning that they ignore 8 points of damage). Lasgun deal 1d10+3 damage, meaning that lasguns can deal a maximum of 5 damage. Space marine will probably have a toughness bonus of 4, so the lasgun can deal one point of damage. It would take a while, but guardsmen could kill space marines through mass firepower (the lasgun is longer ranged than a bolt gun, and can fire three shots when firing semi-auto and gains +10 BS when firing semi, so it would be hard, but possible).

SM Power armor gets 10 on the chest, plus 2 more for the Black Carapace, for a total of 12. They also get Unnatural Toughness, which means that the basic, starting SM is completely immune to a lasweapon's damage unless the person fires it scores a Righteous Fury, which requires that the GM allows enemy combatants to score them (I do... PCs and Loyalists get Righteous Fury.... the antagonists/Traitors get Wrath of the Dark Gods... same effect, your damage rolls of 10s have a chance to explode into multiple handfuls of dice of damage).

Certain character classes can get Unnatural Toughness which doubles their Toughness Bonus (TB) against damage. I have seen a Guardsman character get an effective 18 TB, making him absolutely immune to most standard weapons in the DH books.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Faster-than-light reaction times/speed because the high end of W40K is high.

That's not the high end, that's the "dear god this author is an idiot" end.

Ah yes, insults, always great as a justification to dismiss fluff one does not like.

Oh, where do I start with this crap? Well, I guess a little discussion about FTL travel is in order. To even approach a fraction of the speed of light requires a great amount of energy. More energy than can be stored in a man sized being no matter what. I won't go into the details but some speculate that it requires infinite amounts of energy to accelerate a particle (In this case, an electric impulse from a neuron) to a speed faster than the speed of light. So, even if our theories about faster than light travel are wrong on this account it would still require obscene amounts of energy to constantly accelerate particles to this speed to maintain "FTL reflexes". More energy than is in a Emperor-class battlecruiser. More energy than is in the galaxy. I've heard such travel may require more energy than is in the galaxy.

So, say you solved the energy problem somehow. Great! But now you run into causality issues. Objects moving faster than the speed of light, according to some scientists, move backwards in time. Since the distance in a man sized object is so small this would mean that the person's mind would get the impulse before the stimuli even occurs. As in, whatever this being is would hold his shield up before the opponent even swung his blade in reaction to him swinging his blade. This would then prompt the opponent to not swing his blade, thus removing the cause of our subject's reaction.

Before you say, "Oh, CustomLime, but 40k doesn't use science! It just throws it away!". No, that's not true. 40k still uses science. That's why Lasgun packs need recharging, that's why things fall down and that's why meltaguns work by exciting particles. What 40k does is use heavy amounts of suspension of disbelief. In this case, what they are asking for is not only impossible but is so impossible that it utterly destroys suspension of disbelief.

Now, as for Space Marines... I suppose their invincibility is up for interpretation but citing black library novels is like using propaganda to argue for the merits of a state. In other words, your sources are flawed since they are biased towards their subject. I could write a short story of Lasguns making power armor look useless and it would be just as valid as Black Library novels. They are meant to be exciting stories and not accurate representations of the 41st millennium. But then... what is the true 41st millennium?

 Psienesis wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Going off Dark Heresy (which is much closer to the fluff), Power Armour has an AP of 8 (meaning that they ignore 8 points of damage). Lasgun deal 1d10+3 damage, meaning that lasguns can deal a maximum of 5 damage. Space marine will probably have a toughness bonus of 4, so the lasgun can deal one point of damage. It would take a while, but guardsmen could kill space marines through mass firepower (the lasgun is longer ranged than a bolt gun, and can fire three shots when firing semi-auto and gains +10 BS when firing semi, so it would be hard, but possible).

SM Power armor gets 10 on the chest, plus 2 more for the Black Carapace, for a total of 12. They also get Unnatural Toughness, which means that the basic, starting SM is completely immune to a lasweapon's damage unless the person fires it scores a Righteous Fury, which requires that the GM allows enemy combatants to score them (I do... PCs and Loyalists get Righteous Fury.... the antagonists/Traitors get Wrath of the Dark Gods... same effect, your damage rolls of 10s have a chance to explode into multiple handfuls of dice of damage).

Certain character classes can get Unnatural Toughness which doubles their Toughness Bonus (TB) against damage. I have seen a Guardsman character get an effective 18 TB, making him absolutely immune to most standard weapons in the DH books.

Dark heresy NOT deathwatch. Deathwatch is movie marines, and everything is increased in power, pulse weapons do 2d10+2 damge for example, more powerful than regular plasma weapons in DH. Bolt weapons do 2d10+5,despite all evidence showing that pulse weapons are more powerful than bolters. Also tau missile pods (S7) do 2d10+6, whereas plasma rifles (S6) do 2d10+9. Deathwatch is no a good thing to go off of. It was probably the worst book FF has ever done.

Power Armor in DH is not Space Marine Power Armor, it's the "civilian models" that Inquisitors and their retinues get.

There are no Space Marines in DH (not unless you buy the Daemonhunters book, and then you get Grey Knights which make all your DH characters look like scrubs), so the Power Armor comparison falls flat, simply because the DH PA is not intended (and specifically says it is not) Astartes-grade gear.

I otherwise don't disagree with you, DW is pretty bad.... but, then, so was Disciples of the Dark Gods, Radicals Handbook, Daemonhunters, and Blood of Martyrs.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I'd argue that it would be rather difficult for it to blow the tank up. Maybe hit the driver through the vision slit, or at least crack its armoured glass, assuming it has that (Not 100% on whether Baneblades have armoured glass on the driver's vision slit) but to blow it up you'd need to hit the fuel or the ammunition, both of which are safely stored behind a ludicrous amount of metal plate.

Here's a scenario, however unlikely:

The bullet hits ammunition that has been loaded, by traveling down the barrel. Or it deforms a lascannon barrel just enough to cause the battery to overheat and explode (which would only damage the tank, not destroy it, but I digress). And so on.

Just one. I said they were unlikely situations, but it is theoretically possible. Just not believable.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Marines

I don't read fanfiction.


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 Wyzilla wrote:
Again, there's numerous examples of Orks, Nids, Astartes, and Chaos Astartes tanking lasguns flawlessly

No there aren't.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Or rather, it should show to you my opinion on power armor-- it's awesome to have, but it's still better to not get shot in the first place.

I completely agree. I can see no positive factors in being shot, no matter to which degree you and/or your armour resist said attack.

I mean, even if a Guardsman fires a shot at a Baneblade with his Autopistol, it's bad. It might not blow up the tank, but it'll scratch the paint!

Getting shot is always bad, though to different degrees.

What if the Guardsman was Marbo?

If the guardsman was marbo he probably already planted a demo pack and detonates it the moment the bullet hits.

 Melissia wrote:
If the guardsman was marbo he probably already planted a demo pack and detonates it the moment the bullet hits.

Or...the demo pack was on the bullet!

Incidentally....

... putting a bullet down the cannon barrel of a tank does not cause the round in said cannon to explode. The front of that shell is not the blowy-uppy part.

That really depends on the design of the shell.