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WayneTheGame wrote:

 Alex C wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

 undertow wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
It repeatedly boggles my mind why they make things like the datacards, which seem to be almost an essential part of the game, limited stock. Why on earth would you limit that??

I was hoping to see some Khorne-themed dice from GW. I bought some from Chessex a couple years ago, but I'd still buy a couple sets of the GW ones.

Why they make anything like that limited boggles my mind as well.

It's really things like that which make me wonder just what their goal is. They claim to be a miniature company not a game company, but how many things are limited/no longer available? How long before this box is "Sold Out" like the others and goes away? What, do they expect people to buy everything the minute it's available, just because it's released? Wait, they probably DO think that...

Kinda lends credence to that rumor that was shouted down about GW doing time-limited releases for the new version of WFB, doesn't it?

I don't think they would be that stupid...

Discontinuing Specialist Games proves they are.

People saying the new great axe BT is awesome forget that:

1.He can easily be shot to death before he can do any damage.
2. He pretty much has to take out the entire enemy force by him self because his army buddies suck at what they do.
3. He is your 300+ point can opener; if the enemy has 3 or more units with AV he will be all busy busting them because you dont have alot of other options.
4. While great against single rough stuff, so many units dont care if he has a D weapon or not, and outclass him in CC because he strike last.

 Alex C wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

 undertow wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
It repeatedly boggles my mind why they make things like the datacards, which seem to be almost an essential part of the game, limited stock. Why on earth would you limit that??

I was hoping to see some Khorne-themed dice from GW. I bought some from Chessex a couple years ago, but I'd still buy a couple sets of the GW ones.

Why they make anything like that limited boggles my mind as well.

It's really things like that which make me wonder just what their goal is. They claim to be a miniature company not a game company, but how many things are limited/no longer available? How long before this box is "Sold Out" like the others and goes away? What, do they expect people to buy everything the minute it's available, just because it's released? Wait, they probably DO think that...

Kinda lends credence to that rumor that was shouted down about GW doing time-limited releases for the new version of WFB, doesn't it?

No, it really does not.

The boxed sets that they have been doing are not generally going away within any short timeframe.

skycapt44 wrote:
The Bloodthirster will likely be something like Strength D to sell the models.

Somebody give this man a cookie! He called it page 2 of this thread

A Bloodthirster swingin' the D is pretty damn sweet, don't get me wrong, but there is still the problem of getting that big bad boy in to combat. In my experience the only reason other Daemon FMCs make it into combat is through a combination of good rolls on the greater rewards table, psychic powers from either the biomancy (iron arm, endurance) or telepathy (invis, shrouding) tables, or the good ol' Grimoire. The Bloodthirster is still lacking the psychic portion of that magic cocktail (which is a larger portion than the rewards table if you ask me), and we all know if you want the Grimoire to work, you pretty much have to take the BigBird. That limits you to one of these guys in a CAD. Even then, you're still forgoing our much needed Heralds (Tzeentch for psychic dice/buffs/summoning Khorne for killin' gak), AND you have to find someone to be a Grimoire caddy. It's not as big of a deal if you're playing double CAD or with self ally allowed, but they still very much demand to be built around if they are going to succeed. Be'lakor (read: Invis'akor) seems pretty close to mandatory in that light. The new BT's may be hard to hide, but Baby Be'la is certainly not.

Still though, you have to consider what would happen to a Bloodthirster caught with his junk in the wind: A Skyray still eats this guy for breakfast AND takes his lunch money if it gets both marker light hits. 2 skyrays and he is most certainly dead.

TL;DR: The prospect of D is amazeballs, but the changes to the Bloodthirster do not address it's main problem, which was getting to combat in the first place.

 Fayric wrote:
People saying the new great axe BT is awesome forget that:

1.He can easily be shot to death before he can do any damage.
2. He pretty much has to take out the entire enemy force by him self because his army buddies suck at what they do.
3. He is your 300+ point can opener; if the enemy has 3 or more units with AV he will be all busy busting them because you dont have alot of other options.
4. While great against single rough stuff, so many units dont care if he has a D weapon or not, and outclass him in CC because he strike last.

And you pretty much highlight the problems with the assault phase entirely.

But who knows? Maybe after Fantasy 9th, they'll come out with 40k 8th next year and the shooting phase will become garbage and the assault phase will become king and everyone will have to buy butt-tons of new models? It makes sense. Look at it this way...

If GW needs to update the following models to complete some codices...
-Howling Banshees
-Striking Scorpions
-Incubi
-Khorne Berzerkers
-Noise Marines
-All things Kroot
And there's rumors that Genestealer Cult is coming out sometime... It'd make perfect sense for them to boost the assault phase. Suddenly, Tau and Eldar players are ditching their Wraithguard and Fire Warriors for Aspect Warriors and Kroot!

But I'm just speculating on a horrendous degree here.

D weapon thirster doesn't need to strike last. He can be gifted another weapon that strikes at int.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
The Bloodthirster will likely be something like Strength D to sell the models.

Somebody give this man a cookie! He called it page 2 of this thread

A Bloodthirster swingin' the D is pretty damn sweet, don't get me wrong, but there is still the problem of getting that big bad boy in to combat. In my experience the only reason other Daemon FMCs make it into combat is through a combination of good rolls on the greater rewards table, psychic powers from either the biomancy (iron arm, endurance) or telepathy (invis, shrouding) tables, or the good ol' Grimoire. The Bloodthirster is still lacking the psychic portion of that magic cocktail (which is a larger portion than the rewards table if you ask me), and we all know if you want the Grimoire to work, you pretty much have to take the BigBird. That limits you to one of these guys in a CAD. Even then, you're still forgoing our much needed Heralds (Tzeentch for psychic dice/buffs/summoning Khorne for killin' gak), AND you have to find someone to be a Grimoire caddy. It's not as big of a deal if you're playing double CAD or with self ally allowed, but they still very much demand to be built around if they are going to succeed. Be'lakor (read: Invis'akor) seems pretty close to mandatory in that light. The new BT's may be hard to hide, but Baby Be'la is certainly not.

Still though, you have to consider what would happen to a Bloodthirster caught with his junk in the wind: A Skyray still eats this guy for breakfast AND takes his lunch money if it gets both marker light hits. 2 skyrays and he is most certainly dead.

TL;DR: The prospect of D is amazeballs, but the changes to the Bloodthirster do not address it's main problem, which was getting to combat in the first place.

Give people what they want, for most people...it's the D.

I was just hoping my Foreword thirster (massive beast) could finally make use of his Axe with the appropriate Strength. When in doubt run 2. Win or lose it's still blood for the blood god. You'll want that lesser reward to have the regular Axe as back up. It's a mere 10 points.

From user George Smiley at BoLS Lounge:

WayneTheGame wrote:
It repeatedly boggles my mind why they make things like the datacards, which seem to be almost an essential part of the game, limited stock. Why on earth would you limit that??

Me too. You know what's more crazy, my store was told they could only order 1 set of datacards for every 2 codices with the Harlequins. So, of course, anyone without a reservation was SOL on the cards >.<

 pretre wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
It's because they're reasonably good at giving people what they WANT to believe.

- When people want to know what's coming up in 6 to 12 months, Faeit and BOLS supply them with lists and timelines.

- When we already have a vague idea about what armies are coming up next, people want rumors about rules and minis. Faeit and BOLS supply rumors.

- When we know what the next release is, people want to know kit and rule details. Faeit and BOLS supply those details.

And in all these cases, the more "fan fave" stuff you work in, the more traction it gets. Because people WANT to believe it. It's a simple formula.

No, I get that. I just wonder why, after they are wrong so many times, they still buy it. Wanting to believe only goes so far...

When I talk to people in my gaming club or in shops who basically get most of their infomation about GW products from those blogs, you can see how much damage the lack of checking the quality of sources does deal to people in the long time. It creates a large amount of frustration caused by what is in the end just crap-quality journalism. It is not good service to the readers when authors/bloggers do not invest a bit of their time into a system to check the info they get before publishing and also not keep stuff for themselves that's of dubious origin.

Back to the topic of this thread, the Codex: Khorne Daemonkin could contain different rules to those printed in Codex: CSM and Codex: CD. So stuff like better protection, charging after outflanking or deepstriking and other boni could still be provided by the book. The datasheets in White Dwarf, the Bloodthirsters, are for Codex: Chaos Daemons only. See the symbol on the sheets. Maybe (!) the Codex: KDK is a faction of its own which would make the most sense actually. If... there is a good chance they will differ quite a bit from the other books. Crimson Slaughter Possessed differ from the unit in the CSM book for example






Automatically Appended Next Post:
A larger pic of the army box - source: www.waaaghgaming.de

Warhams-77 wrote:
Maybe (!) the Codex: KDK is a faction of its own which would make the most sense actually. If... there is a good chance they will differ quite a bit from the other books. Crimson Slaughter Possessed differ from the unit in the CSM book for example.

I'm thinking this may be the case. It's curious either way, because CSM and Daemons don't have identical interactions on the allies matrix.

I wonder if there will be a World Eaters paint video on YouTube when this lands

Maybe my added post was missed, the pic shows Berzerker and Possessed are now sold on 32 mm Bases. No new models (as we already knew)

Mmmm they actually look as they have always looked, no 32 mm but 25 mm, you can look at the helmetless zerk his legs barely fit on the base, just like it actually does. Same with the possessed and the normal marines, no new bases it seems

So are Bloodletters 32mm too? Just the herald?

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Maybe (!) the Codex: KDK is a faction of its own which would make the most sense actually. If... there is a good chance they will differ quite a bit from the other books. Crimson Slaughter Possessed differ from the unit in the CSM book for example.

I'm thinking this may be the case. It's curious either way, because CSM and Daemons don't have identical interactions on the allies matrix.

They will obviously make a separate allies matrix for this codex. Anything else would be clunky and weird.

There is actually a good amount of space left on there, even if the legs are spread quite wide. I think they're just positioned further back on the bases.

Warhams-77 wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
It's because they're reasonably good at giving people what they WANT to believe.

- When people want to know what's coming up in 6 to 12 months, Faeit and BOLS supply them with lists and timelines.

- When we already have a vague idea about what armies are coming up next, people want rumors about rules and minis. Faeit and BOLS supply rumors.

- When we know what the next release is, people want to know kit and rule details. Faeit and BOLS supply those details.

And in all these cases, the more "fan fave" stuff you work in, the more traction it gets. Because people WANT to believe it. It's a simple formula.

No, I get that. I just wonder why, after they are wrong so many times, they still buy it. Wanting to believe only goes so far...

When I talk to people in my gaming club or in shops who basically get most of their infomation about GW products from those blogs, you can see how much damage the lack of checking the quality of sources does deal to people in the long time. It creates a large amount of frustration caused by what is in the end just crap-quality journalism. It is not good service to the readers when authors/bloggers do not invest a bit of their time into a system to check the info they get before publishing and also not keep stuff for themselves that's of dubious origin.

Back to the topic of this thread, the Codex: Khorne Daemonkin could contain different rules to those printed in Codex: CSM and Codex: CD. So stuff like better protection, charging after outflanking or deepstriking and other boni could still be provided by the book. The datasheets in White Dwarf, the Bloodthirsters, are for Codex: Chaos Daemons only. See the symbol on the sheets. Maybe (!) the Codex: KDK is a faction of its own which would make the most sense actually. If... there is a good chance they will differ quite a bit from the other books. Crimson Slaughter Possessed differ from the unit in the CSM book for example






Automatically Appended Next Post:
A larger pic of the army box - source: www.waaaghgaming.de

WELL NOW. That looks VERY tempting to pick up to do the Revelation of Gore. But wait, Khorne sucks in 40k now don't they?

Do we know if the rewards system (lesser, greater, exalted) are the same as in the Codex Daemons or do you guys think it might be different?

 akwing00 wrote:
Do we know if the rewards system (lesser, greater, exalted) are the same as in the Codex Daemons or do you guys think it might be different?

Read from a guy with the WD that it was the same rewards

Its been said they are identical to the ones in Codex: Chaos Daemons.

The dataslates in WD are for the new C:CD Thirster, so yes the rewards are the same.

C:KD may be different again.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Its been said they are identical to the ones in Codex: Chaos Daemons.

well that's slightly disappointing, guess I'll stick to the 2 greater 1 lesser rewards pattern as usual

 Azreal13 wrote:
The dataslates in WD are for the new C:CD Thirster, so yes the rewards are the same.

C:KD may be different again.

Well this is the direct Quote from the guy who claims to have the WD:

Got my white dwarf... so good , theres a boon of khorne rule for a formation called the slaughtercult - when you pay the tithe they give you two results from the table instead of one , then you pick what one you want.

You must use points correctly... so if you you gain 6 points and a herald costs 4 - you will loose your remaining points. no stacking...makes the 8 point bloodthirster harder to summon. 8 is the max points that can be held.

only the classic bloodthirster build (normal demon codex one or unfettered fury in this book) can be summoned by tithe rules.
demonic rewards are the normal codex demon rewards.

Sounds to me that confirms the gifts a for the new codex are the same

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The dataslates in WD are for the new C:CD Thirster, so yes the rewards are the same.

C:KD may be different again.

Well this is the direct Quote from the guy who claims to have the WD:

Got my white dwarf... so good , theres a boon of khorne rule for a formation called the slaughtercult - when you pay the tithe they give you two results from the table instead of one , then you pick what one you want.

You must use points correctly... so if you you gain 6 points and a herald costs 4 - you will loose your remaining points. no stacking...makes the 8 point bloodthirster harder to summon. 8 is the max points that can be held.

only the classic bloodthirster build (normal demon codex one or unfettered fury in this book) can be summoned by tithe rules.
demonic rewards are the normal codex demon rewards.

Sounds to me that confirms the gifts a for the new codex are the same

I was hoping for rewards that might provide the thirster with more survivability, as it only benefits from the +1W and IWND, 4+ FnP, and reroll of invulns greater rewards. Hopefully some of the results you can pay tithes with will help out, I saw it mentioned that one of them is FnP.

That seems like an awful lot of info from a WD, and does that mean we get the tables duplicated or need the original book?

I'm not dismissing a guy who has better access to info than I do currently, but this isn't something I'm too concerned about either way anyway.

 Azreal13 wrote:
That seems like an awful lot of info from a WD, and does that mean we get the tables duplicated or need the original book?

I'm not dismissing a guy who has better access to info than I do currently, but this isn't something I'm too concerned about either way anyway.

I also have no solid info on this buuuut, I'm gonna stick with the you need the codex daemon as well, I mean I'm on the theory that this will be an End Timesesque release, where only a list of units available for this army are concentrated in one page and that's it so you need both Codex Daemons and Codex CSM, just like in fantasy you need Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings to play your Undead Legions army. The book only covers the interaction of rules for both armies.

As an example in WHFB if you play a Legion of Chaos army (Beastmen/WoC/Daemons) they lose the Daemonic Instability rule and are just unbreakable, which be the 40k equivalent to Fearless, which might happen if GW plans to allow CSM IC to join daemons, or allow the champions/heralds to roll on the Eye of the Gods table, stuff like that that combines both armies rules. I guess this is what we'll see here, along with new relics, traits, formations and special scenarios

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
That seems like an awful lot of info from a WD, and does that mean we get the tables duplicated or need the original book?

I'm not dismissing a guy who has better access to info than I do currently, but this isn't something I'm too concerned about either way anyway.

I also have no solid info on this buuuut, I'm gonna stick with the you need the codex daemon as well, I mean I'm on the theory that this will be an End Timesesque release, where only a list of units available for this army are concentrated in one page and that's it so you need both Codex Daemons and Codex CSM, just like in fantasy you need Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings to play your Undead Legions army. The book only covers the interaction of rules for both armies.

That doesn't really fit with the recent 40k supplement releases.

Harlequins flatout changed the way a Harlequin Troupe and Shadowseer can be equipped--without allowing it for C: Eldar.

The book is, according to people who have the WD, an entirely independent codex. It has 120 pages and contains everything from both books to play this army

The three White Dwarf datasheets for the Bloodthirster need the Codex: Chaos Daemons

But weren't the Harlequins a choice in the eldar/dark eldar codexes, which later made a new "faction" with different harlequin units?

That is completely different from this, this is a use units from two different existing armies to gain some special rules, that sounds exactly like any End Times book.

Even the bundle, there are no new models at all contrary to the Harlequins but they actually fit with the bundles released for WHFB, which contained units from different armybooks like

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/The-Legion-of-Khorne-Web-Bundle

The Adeptus Mechanicus release after this one will probably follow the Harlequin pattern as it takes a completely new army into the game with new models and therefore new rules


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warhams-77 wrote:
The book is, according to people who have the WD, an entirely independent codex. It has 120 pages and contains everything from both books to play this army

The three White Dwarf datasheets for the Bloodthirster need the Codex: Chaos Daemons

I wouldn't trust that "contains everything from both books to play this army", look at the description from the Nagash rulebook: "Warhammer: Nagash Book 2 is a 96-page volume that contains new scenarios and rules based on the events in Warhammer: Nagash Book 1. It includes the full rules that will allow you to field Nagash and his loyal subjects " that might sound that you only need this book to play but once you get it you realize you need both VC and TK

I mean sure I could be wrong and this one could have the reprint of all the entries but I wouldn't bet of that. This same there will be new entries happened on the Black Legion Supplement, and then once they stopped calling them Supplement and were called Codex as the Crimson Slaughter one