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Lusiphur wrote:

Show me where the FMC DOES move like a jump unit when not in Gliding or Swooping Mode.

Show me in the rules were it can move as anything other then glide or swoop.

A FMC must choose between glide or swoop when it moves, this is RAW. And it must do so during every actual movement phase in the game. Your only argument is that it can't choose between it's only two legal modes of movement during pre-deployment where there is no actual movement. That is what makes your argument irrelevant.

Sure. It's been brought up numerous times already.

There is the default status of the FMC before any other conditional statements are met. I will now highlight in green the conditional statements which place limits on when something is defined. I will highlight in red the actual movement rules.




Now try and remove the sentences with conditions and see if there is any Swooping, Gliding, or moving like a JMC.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Christoph - prove the conditions are relevant IN THIS INSTANCE

The actual rules do not place any requirements on WHEN it must be described as. Just that it is described as.

It is, without doubt, described as.

The FMC rules make them relevant since they are the ones imposing them. Try removing every conditional sentence from the FMC rules and see how the FMC is described as moving without them. If conditions are not relevant, then there is no point putting them in. Putting in conditions is what makes them relevant.

FlingitNow wrote:

Incorrect view. "It doesn't say I can't" is insufficient evidence for an argument. The only time an FMC is described as moving like a JMC is while Gliding or Swooping. Show me where the FMC DOES move like a jump unit when not in Gliding or Swooping Mode. OR, failing that, where either condition is not dependent on another condition such as Deployment.

Why would I need to show the underlined? Prove that moving like jump units is a requirement of the rule?

Well, it needs to be described as such, and if there is no mention of moving like a jump unit, there is no description, now is there?

Fragile wrote:

Incorrect view. "It doesn't say I can't" is insufficient evidence for an argument. The only time an FMC is described as moving like a JMC is while Gliding or Swooping. Show me where the FMC DOES move like a jump unit when not in Gliding or Swooping Mode. OR, failing that, where either condition is not dependent on another condition such as Deployment.

It doesnt. FMCs can only move like Jump because they can only Glide or Swoop. That is clearly laid out in their rules that have been quoted often.

Incorrect. I've laid it out above. Once the game starts, they can only Glide or Swoop, but that is not the point of this discussion, is it?

Well, it needs to be described as such, and if there is no mention of moving like a jump unit, there is no description, now is there? 

Cool so we need the description to say that they move like jump units. You have already quoted the parts of the description that say that. So you now how to prove those parts magically disappear when not gliding or swooping. Or is this your concession?

Now try and remove the sentences with conditions and see if there is any Swooping, Gliding, or moving like a JMC.

Hrmmm, ok, Let's see, we have the line:

Flying Monstrous Creatures can move using one of two flight modes: Swooping or Gliding.

Looks like there is no conditional on that statement. And we can see it has only two movement modes listed, glide and swoop. And since both movement modes are described as jump it satisfies the Jump rule. Go figure, what I have been saying all along.

Ooops, you just proved my point.

Looks like this thread is finished / has become a bit circular, so locking...