Does FMC (Tyranids) allow the model to deep strike?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**col_impact**

Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Incorrect. The Gliding and Swooping rules are always on the FMC unit type description even when they are not actively being called upon. I can definitively point to Gliding and Swooping on FMC unit type description and it indeed 100% true and always true that the FMC is "described as moving like a Jump unit".

You are failing to account for the language and logic of "described as". Your entire argument is invalid.

Spoiler:

"Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

The glide and swoop rules are a part of the FMC unit type description and therefore are always a part of their description.

I am taking it in to account when it tells me to take it in to account. You are suggesting that we must take it in to account at all times, which is not stated by these rules.

If a unit had a Special Rule that allowed it to move like a Jump Infantry in the Assault Phase, would you still allow for it to Deep Strike? Your reasoning above says you do.

Would you allow a Librarian with Wings of Sanguinius Pyschic Power, no TDA, no Jump Pack to Deep Strike alone? Your reasoning above says you do.

The rule asks if a unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. We look at the unit type description. If the description includes something that "moves like a Jump unit" then it gets Deep Strike.

It's pretty simple and I am simply adhering to the actual language of the rule. You are not adhering to the actual language of the rule. Your argument is invalid.

Which of these rules is in the rule book?

A) "Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

B) "Units that are 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

You are applying a rule that is not in the rule book. B is not in the rule book. You are not allowed to do that. A is in the rule book.

**Charistoph**

col_impact wrote:
The rule asks if a unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. We look at the unit type description. If the description includes something that "moves like a Jump unit" then it gets Deep Strike.

It's pretty simple and I am simply adhering to the actual language of the rule. You are not adhering to the actual language of the rule. Your argument is invalid.

Which of these rules is in the rule book?

A) "Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

B) "Units that are 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

You are applying a rule that is not in the rule book. B is not in the rule book. You are not allowed to do that. A is in the rule book.

You are ignoring what I'm saying. How are FMCs described as moving like during deployment before it deploys?

**col_impact**

Charistoph wrote:
You are ignoring what I'm saying. How are FMCs described as moving like during deployment?

Their unit type description remains the exact same at all times in the game. Would you like me to point you to the FMC unit type description?

Here is the description of the FMC at all times.

Spoiler:

Is a FMC described as moving like a Jump Monstrous Creature?
yes or no?

unequivocally YES!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Here are two logically different rules . . .

A) "Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

B) "Units that are 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

Rule A asks me to check the unit type description to see if the unit is described as moving like a Jump unit.

Rule B asks me to check if the unit is in the process of moving like a Jump unit.

Which of these rules is in the actual rule book?

**Charistoph**

col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
You are ignoring what I'm saying. How are FMCs described as moving like during deployment?

Their unit type description remains the exact same at all times in the game.

I never stated anything about the unit type, but how and when they are described as moving, and that is the central point.

col_impact wrote:
Would you like me to point you to the FMC unit type description?

Here is the description of the FMC at all times.

Spoiler:

FLYING MONSTROUS CREATURES

Flying Monstrous Creatures are massive winged monstrosities that are
essentially ferocious living aircraft.
Flying Monstrous Creatures are Monstrous Creatures that have a number of additional
rules.

DEPLOYMENT

A Flying Monstrous Creature that is deployed at the start of the game starts in Gliding
mode. If a Flying Monstrous Creature is kept as Reserves then, as soon as it enters play,
you must declare whether it is in Swooping or Gliding mode. If a Flying Monstrous
Creature arrives via Deep Strike Reserve, it always counts as being in Swooping mode.

SPECIAL RULES

In addition to the special rules that all Monstrous Creatures have, Flying Monstrous
Creatures also have the Jink and Vector Strike special rules.

FLIGHT MODES

Flying Monstrous Creatures can move using one of two flight modes: Swooping or
Gliding.
Changing Flight Mode
At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare whether it is Swooping
or Gliding until the start of its next turn. If a Flying Monstrous Creature changes flight
modes during its turn, it cannot declare a charge during the same turn.
A Gliding Flying Monstrous Creature cannot change flight mode whilst Falling Back.

GLIDING

If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump
Monstrous Creature.

SWOOPING

If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Swooping, it moves exactly like a Jump Monstrous
Creature, with the following exceptions:

Is a FMC described as moving like a Jump Monstrous Creature?
yes or no?

unequivocally YES!

So, again, your assertion is that if they are described as moving as a jump unit at ANY point, temporary or permanent, it ALWAYS considered a Jump Unit and has all their rules all the time, correct?

Can you provide a rule that supports this assertion? You have yet to quote it.

col_impact wrote:
Here are two logically different rules . . .

A) "Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

B) "Units that are 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

Rule A asks me to check the unit type description to see if the unit is described as moving like a Jump unit.

Rule B asks me to check if the unit is in the process of moving like a Jump unit.

Which of these rules is in the actual rule book?

You keep repeating the same thing which has zero bearing on my case.

Which rule is it that this always applies, even if the status is temporary and not applying in the circumstance needed?

Because this is what I see:

DEPLOYMENT
A Flying Monstrous Creature that is deployed at the start of the game starts in Gliding mode. If a Flying Monstrous Creature is kept as Reserves then, as soon as it enters play, you must declare whether it is in Swooping or Gliding mode. If a Flying Monstrous Creature arrives via Deep Strike Reserve, it always counts as being in Swooping mode.

FLIGHT MODES
Flying Monstrous Creatures can move using one of two flight modes: Swooping or Gliding.

Changing Flight Mode
At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare whether it is Swooping or Gliding until the start of its next turn. If a Flying Monstrous Creature changes flight modes during its turn, it cannot declare a charge during the same turn.

GLIDING
If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature.

SWOOPING
If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Swooping, it moves exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature...

Units that are described as ‘moving like’ Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules.

So, I see that when it Moves or Deploys, it is Gliding or Swooping. At which point, it is described as moving like Jump units.

I literally see nothing about its status before it Deploys. And Deep Strike Reserves can only be announced before the unit deploys, i.e. before it is Gliding or Swooping, i.e. before it is described as moving like a Jump unit. I see its status when it deploys, but that is not the same thing. This is RAW, and this is stupid.

**col_impact**

Charistophe,

You continue to fail to adhere to the actual language and logic in the rule.

The rule is asking if the FMC is described as moving like a Jump unit.

The rule is not asking if the FMC is currently moving like a Jump unit.

The rule is asking me to check the description of the unit and see if anywhere on that description it is described as X.

I check the FMC unit type description. The rules for Gliding and Swooping are on there. The FMC is indeed described as moving like a Jump unit. The FMC therefore has Deep Strike.

**Charistoph**

col_impact wrote:
Charistophe,

You continue to fail to adhere to the actual language and logic in the rule.

The rule is asking if the FMC is described as moving like a Jump unit.

The rule is not asking if the FMC is currently moving like a Jump unit.

The rule is asking me to check the description of the unit and see if anywhere on that description it is described as X.

I check the FMC unit type description. The rules for Gliding and Swooping are on there. The FMC is indeed described as moving like a Jump unit. The FMC therefore has Deep Strike.

And so ignoring the case continues.

So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in Assault, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?

**Fragile**

Charistoph wrote:
[
You are ignoring what I'm saying. How are FMCs described as moving like during deployment before it deploys?

Irrelevant. Nothing "moves" before it deploys, therefore that is moot.

The rule only cares that they are described as moving like Jump. The rules cited often in this thread show the FMC moves like Jump. Swooping or Gliding, it doesn't matter. There is no way a FMC is "described" as moving as anything other than Jump.

**col_impact**

Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistophe,

You continue to fail to adhere to the actual language and logic in the rule.

The rule is asking if the FMC is described as moving like a Jump unit.

The rule is not asking if the FMC is currently moving like a Jump unit.

The rule is asking me to check the description of the unit and see if anywhere on that description it is described as X.

I check the FMC unit type description. The rules for Gliding and Swooping are on there. The FMC is indeed described as moving like a Jump unit. The FMC therefore has Deep Strike.

And so ignoring the case continues.

So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in Assault, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?

Spoiler:

This rule asks me to check a unit type description or ALE description to see if "moves like Jump unit" is on the description. If it is then the unit has the special rules of a Jump unit.

If you have a problem with that you have a problem with the logic that is right there in the actual rules. Since I am sticking with RAW I will stick with the logic that is actually in the rules.

**kambien**

col_impact wrote:
This rule asks me to check a unit type description or ALE description to see if "moves like Jump unit" is on the description. If it is then the unit has the special rules of a Jump unit.
If you have a problem with that you have a problem with the logic that is right there in the actual rules. Since I am sticking with RAW I will stick with the logic that is actually in the rules.

And when you check the description you'll note that it does not "moves like a jump unit" , it says "If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature." and If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Swooping, it moves exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature. They are not the same thing. You do not get the rule until you satisfy the condition . Why are you ignoring the word if ?

or do i get to just choose words listed in the decription ?

It is described that :
Tank Shock a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature.
Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots.
A Flying Monstrous Creature cannot charge
can move up to 2D6" straight forwards
does not take Dangerous Terrain tests.
change flight mode whilst Falling Back.
are Monstrous Creatures

**col_impact**

kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:
This rule asks me to check a unit type description or ALE description to see if "moves like Jump unit" is on the description. If it is then the unit has the special rules of a Jump unit.
If you have a problem with that you have a problem with the logic that is right there in the actual rules. Since I am sticking with RAW I will stick with the logic that is actually in the rules.

And when you check the description you'll note that it does not "moves like a jump unit" , it says "If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature." and If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Swooping, it moves exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature. They are not the same thing. You do not get the rule until you satisfy the condition . Why are you ignoring the word if ?

or do i get to just choose words listed in the decription ?

It is described that :
Tank Shock a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature.
Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots.
A Flying Monstrous Creature cannot charge
can move up to 2D6" straight forwards
does not take Dangerous Terrain tests.
change flight mode whilst Falling Back.
are Monstrous Creatures

The rules are always on the description whether or not they are actively in effect. Since Swoop and Glide is on the unit type description, we can unequivocally assert that an FMC is indeed described as moving like a Jump unit.

The rule does not ask if the FMC is currently moving like a Jump unit. The rule is asking if the FMC is described as moving like a Jump unit. Since you fail to see this critical logical distinction your argument is invalid.

**kambien**

col_impact wrote:
Since Swoop and Glide is on the unit type description, we can unequivocally assert that an FMC is indeed described as moving like a Jump unit..

and here is the logic fail , since we don't have rules stating this Again , you are giving a condition to receive something and you have not fulfilled the condition

**col_impact**

kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Since Swoop and Glide is on the unit type description, we can unequivocally assert that an FMC is indeed described as moving like a Jump unit..

and here is the logic fail , since we don't have rules stating this Again , you are giving a condition to receive something and you have not fulfilled the condition

Here is the rule that has been stated to the umpteenth time . . .

Spoiler:

There is no condition. "Moves like Jump unit" is either on the FMC unit type description or not. Since it's on the FMC unit type description we have satisfied the rule. FMC are described as "moving like Jump units". Therefore, FMC have Deep Strike.

Is an FMC described as "moving like a jump unit?". Yes, indeed it is.

You keep confusing this question: Is an FMC described as "moving like a jump unit?".

With this question: Is an FMC "moving like a jump unit?".

As long as you keep confusing these very different questions your argument is invalid.

**kambien**

col_impact wrote:
There is no condition. "Moves like Jump unit" is either on the FMC unit type description or not. Since it's on the FMC unit type description we have satisfied the rule. FMC are described as "moving like Jump units". Therefore, FMC have Deep Strike.

My rule book doesn't say it "Moves like Jump Unit." It says "If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature" . They are NOT the same thing , you cannot take a portion of the setence and claim it as the rule. Use the whole thing

col_impact wrote:
Is an FMC described as "moving like a jump unit?". Yes, indeed it is.

Again no , it is not described as ]"moving like a jump unit?" . It is described as "If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature"

col_impact wrote:
You keep confusing this question: Is an FMC described as "moving like a jump unit?".

I'm not confusing anything , it does not say "Move like a jump unit" , it says If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature"

col_impact wrote:
As long as you keep confusing these very different questions your argument is invalid.

And for some reason you keep confusing "Moving like jump infantry" with IF XXXXX move like jump infantry"

col_impact wrote:
But its not on the FMC unit type description , please quote the entire sentence that contains that , it disproves what you are saying if you do so

But it says it in the description , SEVERAL TIMES that IF XXXXX moves exactly JF. At no point does it say "Moves like jump infantry" Again , quote the entire rule , or at least the rest of the setence to wehre it says that .

**Charistoph**

Fragile wrote:
Charistoph wrote:

You are ignoring what I'm saying. How are FMCs described as moving like during deployment before it deploys?

Irrelevant. Nothing "moves" before it deploys, therefore that is moot.

The rule only cares that they are described as moving like Jump. The rules cited often in this thread show the FMC moves like Jump. Swooping or Gliding, it doesn't matter. There is no way a FMC is "described" as moving as anything other than Jump.

Relevant because of where the the "moves like a Jump Monstrous Creature" is invoked in the FMC rules.

col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
And so ignoring the case continues.

So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in Assault, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?

Spoiler:

Units that
are described as ‘moving like’ Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use
the same special rules.

This rule asks me to check a unit type description or ALE description to see if "moves like Jump unit" is on the description. If it is then the unit has the special rules of a Jump unit.

If you have a problem with that you have a problem with the logic that is right there in the actual rules. Since I am sticking with RAW I will stick with the logic that is actually in the rules.

And so ignoring the case continues.

Answer the question with a proper boolean answer and then provide your reasoning, "So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in the Assault Phase, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?"

**col_impact**

Charistoph wrote:
"So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in the Assault Phase, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?"

This is a fictitious case example. Is this the best you can do? LOL.

Unless you can find real case examples, it looks like you have conceded the argument.

Spoiler:

I look at the description for the FMC unit type and the FMC is indeed "described as 'moving like' Jump units". Deep Strike is granted.

**kambien**

col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
"So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in the Assault Phase, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?"

This is a fictitious case example. Is this the best you can do? LOL.

Unless you can find real case examples, it looks like you have conceded the argument.

Spoiler:

"Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

I look at the description for the FMC unit type and the FMC is indeed "described as 'moving like' Jump units". Deep Strike is granted.

Again , no its not , include the rest of the sentence

**col_impact**

kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
"So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in the Assault Phase, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?"

This is a fictitious case example. Is this the best you can do? LOL.

Unless you can find real case examples, it looks like you have conceded the argument.

Spoiler:

"Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

I look at the description for the FMC unit type and the FMC is indeed "described as 'moving like' Jump units". Deep Strike is granted.

Again , no its not , include the rest of the sentence

Your overly pedantic critique is invalid. Jump monstrous creatures are Jump units.

Spoiler:

**kambien**

col_impact wrote:
kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
"So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in the Assault Phase, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?"

This is a fictitious case example. Is this the best you can do? LOL.

Unless you can find real case examples, it looks like you have conceded the argument.

Spoiler:

"Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

I look at the description for the FMC unit type and the FMC is indeed "described as 'moving like' Jump units". Deep Strike is granted.

Again , no its not , include the rest of the sentence

Your overly pedantic critique is invalid. Jump monstrous creatures are Jump units.

Spoiler:

Unlike most other unit type
categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it
occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous
Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two
sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry
would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.

Nice try , now post the rest of the sentence that prove it is "described as moving like jump units" so you can destroy your own argument

**col_impact**

kambien wrote:
Nice try , now post the rest of the sentence that prove it is "described as moving like jump units" so you can destroy your own argument

If you have some argument to make, feel free to make it.

**kambien**

col_impact wrote:
kambien wrote:
Nice try , now post the rest of the sentence that prove it is "described as moving like jump units" so you can destroy your own argument

If you have some argument to make, feel free to make it.

No where in the FMC entry is it described as a jump unit.

**Charistoph**

col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
"So if Hormagants get a change to Leaping so that they move like Jump Infantry in the Assault Phase, you think they can Deep Strike on their own?"

This is a fictitious case example. Is this the best you can do? LOL.

Unless you can find real case examples, it looks like you have conceded the argument.

Hardly. If you cannot answer such a simple question, you cannot properly support your case, and so you are conceding your case. You have not properly answered my case in the last four attempts.

Here's another scenario that has a little more recent relevance: A Blood Angels Librarian Power "Wings of Sanguinius" "allows the Librarian to move as if he had a jump pack." This was accessible by the Librarian Dreadnought.

Would a Blood Angel Psyker, Dreadnought or Infantry, be able to Deep Strike while possessing such a Power, even without purchasing a Drop Pod, Jump Pack, or TDA?

col_impact wrote:

Spoiler:

"Units that are described as 'moving like' Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules."

I look at the description for the FMC unit type and the FMC is indeed "described as 'moving like' Jump units". Deep Strike is granted.

I see it only being described twice and dependent on one of two conditions in this unit type, neither of which are available during deployment until after it is to late for the model to be placed in to Deep Strike Reserves. If it was in a general location of the unit type's rules, as I've mentioned earlier, and not dependent on a state, you would be correct.

However, in order for a FMC to be described as moving as a JMC, it must either be Gliding or Swooping. Neither state can be declared before the model is deployed, and only as it is deployed.

**col_impact**

kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:
kambien wrote:
Nice try , now post the rest of the sentence that prove it is "described as moving like jump units" so you can destroy your own argument

If you have some argument to make, feel free to make it.

No where in the FMC entry is it described as a jump unit.

Again, your overly pedantic critique is invalid and for reasons already stated.

The rule asks if FMC is described as 'moving like' a Jump unit. The unit type description for FMC describes it as moving exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature. As already pointed out, a JMC counts as a Jump unit.

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Charistoph wrote:
I see it only being described twice and dependent on one of two conditions in this unit type, neither of which are available during deployment until after it is to late for the model to be placed in to Deep Strike Reserves. If it was in a general location of the unit type's rules, as I've mentioned earlier, and not dependent on a state, you would be correct.

However, in order for a FMC to be described as moving as a JMC, it must either be Gliding or Swooping. Neither state can be declared before the model is deployed, and only as it is deployed.

Incorrect. The rule only cares that the FMC is described as moving like a Jump unit. Since Gliding and/or Swooping are on the description of the FMC unit type, we can unequivocally assert that the FMC is indeed described as moving like a Jump unit.

If you cannot adhere to the language and logic in the rule itself you cannot claim to have a RAW argument. I will adhere to the language and logic in the rule itself. And so far I can claim an uncontested RAW argument.

**Lance845**

Moving "like" jump infantry does not make it jump infantry. Being jump infantry confers the special rule deepstrike along with all the benefits that includes. Being a fmc in glide mode gives it the movement permissions of a jump infantry, not their special rules.

Meaning page 65. Skyborne, movement phase, assault phase and fall back moves.

Edit: "units that are described as "moving like" jump units follow all of the rules for jump units, and use the same special rules." The moment it's gliding it has deep strike and bulky apparently.

**col_impact**

Charistoph wrote:

Here's another scenario that has a little more recent relevance: A Blood Angels Librarian Power "Wings of Sanguinius" "allows the Librarian to move as if he had a jump pack." This was accessible by the Librarian Dreadnought.

Would a Blood Angel Psyker, Dreadnought or Infantry, be able to Deep Strike while possessing such a Power, even without purchasing a Drop Pod, Jump Pack, or TDA?

Nope. In your example "'move like' jump unit" would not appear on any unit type or ALE description and so the unit would not be described as moving like a Jump unit.

So it looks like you continue to fail to find any real examples. You might as well concede at this point.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lance845 wrote:
Moving "like" jump infantry does not make it jump infantry. Being jump infantry confers the special rule deepstrike along with all the benefits that includes. Being a fmc in glide mode gives it the movement permissions of a jump infantry, not their special rules.

Meaning page 65. Skyborne, movement phase, assault phase and fall back moves.

The rules disagree with you.

Spoiler:

The FMC unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. So it has Deep Strike.

**kambien**

col_impact wrote:

The FMC unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. So it has Deep Strike.

Where ?

**Lance845**

col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:

Here's another scenario that has a little more recent relevance: A Blood Angels Librarian Power "Wings of Sanguinius" "allows the Librarian to move as if he had a jump pack." This was accessible by the Librarian Dreadnought.

Would a Blood Angel Psyker, Dreadnought or Infantry, be able to Deep Strike while possessing such a Power, even without purchasing a Drop Pod, Jump Pack, or TDA?

Nope. In your example "'move like' jump unit" would not appear on any unit type or ALE description and so the unit would not be described as moving like a Jump unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lance845 wrote:
Moving "like" jump infantry does not make it jump infantry. Being jump infantry confers the special rule deepstrike along with all the benefits that includes. Being a fmc in glide mode gives it the movement permissions of a jump infantry, not their special rules.

Meaning page 65. Skyborne, movement phase, assault phase and fall back moves.

The rules disagree with you.

Spoiler:

Units that
are described as ‘moving like’ Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use
the same special rules.

The FMC unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. So it has Deep Strike.

Yup. Read further. Fmc's can all deepstrike and hit the table swooping. That's basically nuts.

**Happyjew**

kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:

The FMC unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. So it has Deep Strike.

Where ?

The rules for FMC describe the FMC as moving like a Jump unit.

The rules for Jump units say if you are described as a Jump unit, you get the special rules of Jump units.

**Lance845**

kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:

The FMC unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. So it has Deep Strike.

Where ?

Page 68. Gliding. If a fmc I gliding it moves, runs, and charges exactly like a jump mc.

**col_impact**

kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:

The FMC unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. So it has Deep Strike.

Where ?

Here is where the FMC unit type is described . . .

Spoiler:

This has already been stated several times in this thread.

**kambien**

col_impact wrote:
kambien wrote:
col_impact wrote:

The FMC unit type is described as moving like a Jump unit. So it has Deep Strike.

Where ?

Here is where the FMC unit type is described . . .

Spoiler:

FLYING MONSTROUS CREATURES
Flying Monstrous Creatures are massive winged monstrosities that are
essentially ferocious living aircraft.
Flying Monstrous Creatures are Monstrous Creatures that have a number of additional
rules.

DEPLOYMENT

A Flying Monstrous Creature that is deployed at the start of the game starts in Gliding
mode. If a Flying Monstrous Creature is kept as Reserves then, as soon as it enters play,
you must declare whether it is in Swooping or Gliding mode. If a Flying Monstrous
Creature arrives via Deep Strike Reserve, it always counts as being in Swooping mode.

SPECIAL RULES

In addition to the special rules that all Monstrous Creatures have, Flying Monstrous
Creatures also have the Jink and Vector Strike special rules.

FLIGHT MODES

Flying Monstrous Creatures can move using one of two flight modes: Swooping or
Gliding.
Changing Flight Mode
At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare whether it is Swooping
or Gliding until the start of its next turn. If a Flying Monstrous Creature changes flight
modes during its turn, it cannot declare a charge during the same turn.
A Gliding Flying Monstrous Creature cannot change flight mode whilst Falling Back.

GLIDING

If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump
Monstrous Creature.

SWOOPING

If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Swooping, it moves exactly like a Jump Monstrous
Creature, with the following exceptions:
• It must move at least 12" and can move up to 24".
• Due to its limited manoeuvrability, a Flying Monstrous Creature that is Swooping can
make a single pivot on the spot of up to 90° before it moves. Thereafter it must move
directly forwards in a straight line. As many Flying Monstrous Creatures are mounted
on circular or oval bases, it’s not always clear which way is forward. If in doubt, just
make sure you use the same point on the base as the ‘front’ for the entire game.
• A Flying Monstrous Creature that is Swooping can move over intervening units and
impassable terrain exactly as a Jump Monstrous Creature. In addition, a Flying
Monstrous Creature that is Swooping does not take Dangerous Terrain tests.
• Models that physically fit under a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature can move
beneath it. Likewise, a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature can end its move over such
models. However, when moving this way, enemy models must still remain 1" away from
the base of the Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature, and it cannot end its move with its
base within 1" of other enemy models.
• A Flying Monstrous Creature that elects to Run can move up to 2D6" straight
forwards if Swooping.
• A Flying Monstrous Creature cannot charge or be charged whilst it is Swooping.
• A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature can never Fall Back.

Swooping Hunters

Flying Monstrous Creatures are quick-witted predators, able to track their targets even
when moving at high speeds. They can, therefore, fire up to two of their weapons
normally, even if Swooping (provided that they don’t Run). Flying Monstrous Creatures
can shoot all around, just like other non-vehicle models.
In addition, a Flying Monstrous Creature that is Swooping can choose whether or not to
use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each phase. They don’t have to use the Skyfire
special rule, but if they do, all weapons they fire that phase are treated as having the
Skyfire special rule.

Hard to Hit

A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without
specialised weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots
unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule.

Leaving Combat Airspace

It’s quite likely that a Flying Monstrous Creature will leave the board whilst Swooping.
Indeed it can, unlike other units, deliberately do so. If this happens, whether deliberate or
not, the unit is said to have left combat airspace – it then enters Ongoing Reserves.
Whilst in Reserve, the unit cannot change flight mode (it’s too busy trying to get back to
the battlefield).
A Flying Monstrous Creature cannot leave combat airspace on the same turn that it
entered play from Reserves – the owning player must deploy their model in such a way
that it will not leave the board on this turn.

Grounded Tests

If a Flying Monstrous Creature that is Swooping suffers one or more unsaved Wounds
during any phase, it must take a Grounded test at the end of that phase.
To take a Grounded test roll a D6. On a 3+, the Flying Monstrous Creature maintains
control and suffers no additional effect.
If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the beast comes crashing down to the ground – it suffers a single
Strength 9 hit with no armour or cover saves allowed, and becomes Grounded. A
Grounded Flying Monstrous Creature is treated as if it is in Glide mode with immediate
effect, and can therefore be charged in the following Assault phase. Furthermore, a
Grounded model automatically loses any saving throw granted by the Jink special rule (if
it had one) until the start of its next Movement phase and cannot Jink for the rest of the
current turn. A Grounded model can revert to Swoop mode again in its next turn.
Note that if a Flying Monstrous Creature is Grounded during the enemy’s turn, it will
start its own Movement phase in Glide mode and so can declare a charge during its turn if
it chooses to do so, unless it chooses to change flight modes.

Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures and Tank Shock

Due to their high altitude and manoeuvrability, a vehicle cannot Tank Shock a Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creature – if the vehicle would end up underneath a Swooping Flying
Monstrous Creature, move the vehicle by the shortest distance so that it is 1" away from
the base of the Flying Monstrous Creature.

This has already been stated several times in this thread.

see my rules doesn't say that. I'm missing (start paragraph ( start sentence ) ) FMC Move like jump unit ((end sentence ) end pargraph))
All i got is "If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, Runs and charges exactly like a Jump
Monstrous Creature. " , Thery are not the same thing