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Aren't Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marines? They have the <Heretic Astartes> keyword.

Brian888 wrote:
Aren't Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marines? They have the <Heretic Astartes> keyword.

They are Heretic Astartes, but i think 'Chaos Space Marine' is specific to units in the CSM codex. But yeah that's a bit weird.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah yeah, p 156 of the codex, specifically excludes Death Guard and Thousand Sons from using the CSM rules.

...And looking at it, there's nothing saying that a Heretic Astartes detachment can't be Thousand Sons. The restriction is that you can't replace the <Legion> keyword with Thousand Sons, but the warlord traits, artifacts, and stratagems don't say anything about needing a <Legion> detachment, just Chaos Space Marines.

Ah, nope, Bob is right. Missed that page.

So.... We get to use the expanded Dark Hereticus, but (at least at the moment) nothing more? How about the upgraded Rubric datasheet, if there was a one in CSM codex?

I think the latest index vs. codices thing was that if you use Index, use only index, and if you use codex, use only codex. That would lock "real TS" out of any upgraded Rubrics, which would be... silly?

At the moment it seems I should get the CSM datacards for psy powers but not the dex.

If you're a 1k Sons army, you have to use the index. However you do have access to the Dark Hereticus powers.

I need to add 10 power level to my 1k sons, bumping us up to 45 for the next Konor missions. Not sure what to add. Right now I'm short on heavy weaponry, mobility, and deep striking. The current list has Ahriman, 1-2 squads of Rubrics, Helbrute, at the 35 power level. I can add Zaangors 10-30, I have a heldrake on the way, or I can add some daemons for summoning which I like. If I do, what daemons? The problem I had last weekend was in games where you have to chase down the enemy or they are a pure shooty list. The heldrake has a 30" movement but doesn't seem strong enough to take things 1v1? Chariot maybe? Screamers?

So, with the recent release of Codex: Chaos Space Marines, the price on the Demon Prince's Demonic Axe and Hellforged sword both dropped to 10 points, bringing them into line with the double claws, what is seeming to come out as best now? Or is it all preference?

Hello people, new TS (40k) player here. I am planning on using my 30k Thousand Sons in 40k as well, and I have some questions that I don't really think are properly explained in the index/BRB.

I am slightly confused on what units I can pick. Looking in the Chaos index, there is a specific army list for Thousand Sons. Are these the only units I can pick for my Thousand Sons army? If I understand the faction keyword system correctly, shouldn't I also be able to take any <CHAOS> unit as well?

What I'm thinking is a list something along the lines of this.

Magnus
Ahriman or Exalted Sorc
Some units of Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult

So this is fine, these are all in the Thousand Sons army list, but this is where I get confused.

I want a Changeling with me and maybe some other daemons, and I want some stuff from the FW index. Since I play TS in 30k I have my Rapier Laser Destroyers and my Xiphon flyer, and I want to use these in my army as well. So can all those Thousand Sons units and these non-Thousand Sons army list units be used in the same detachment?

If yes, I suppose all the <LEGION> units must be <Thousand Sons>, and then all Mark of Tzeentch. Have I understood correctly?

 alleus wrote:
Hello people, new TS (40k) player here. I am planning on using my 30k Thousand Sons in 40k as well, and I have some questions that I don't really think are properly explained in the index/BRB.

I am slightly confused on what units I can pick. Looking in the Chaos index, there is a specific army list for Thousand Sons. Are these the only units I can pick for my Thousand Sons army? If I understand the faction keyword system correctly, shouldn't I also be able to take any <CHAOS> unit as well?

What I'm thinking is a list something along the lines of this.

Magnus
Ahriman or Exalted Sorc
Some units of Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult

So this is fine, these are all in the Thousand Sons army list, but this is where I get confused.

I want a Changeling with me and maybe some other daemons, and I want some stuff from the FW index. Since I play TS in 30k I have my Rapier Laser Destroyers and my Xiphon flyer, and I want to use these in my army as well. So can all those Thousand Sons units and these non-Thousand Sons army list units be used in the same detachment?

If yes, I suppose all the <LEGION> units must be <Thousand Sons>, and then all Mark of Tzeentch. Have I understood correctly?

Just bring a second detachment that is Choas. So one TS detachment one Chaos Detachment you will need at least a couple of troops choices so probably brimestones there dirt cheap and can soak up wounds plus they will also benefit from changlings aura.

The Xiphon can be given the Thousand Sons legion, the Rapiers cannot. The Changling and other Daemons can't be Thousand Sons, but can still be included in the same detachment for now as they share the Chaos keyword. For the moment this doesn't change anything for you, but when the Thousand Sons get their own codex things will change.

Tuluth wrote:
So, with the recent release of Codex: Chaos Space Marines, the price on the Demon Prince's Demonic Axe and Hellforged sword both dropped to 10 points, bringing them into line with the double claws, what is seeming to come out as best now? Or is it all preference?

I think it's more what do you want him to do. The second claw adds 2 attacks which makes him good at handling large numbers of models with low/mid T. The axe does better against High T models with good saves. The sword seems to be the happy medium not doing as well in specifc areas but overall doing about the same damage as the other two across catagories.

I think the claws are actually still better in most situations, and are definitely better if you account for Diabolic Strength. 3 extra attacks is huge.

Claws seem better in most cases.

Assuming that you don't take the +1 A Warlord Trait and they all hit

Claws - 7 Attacks = 14 damage
Sword/Axe - 4 Attacks + 1 Malefic = 14 damage

Of which the Claws splits that across more attacks so can kill more models in a unit.

At least the Axe/Sword aren't overcosted to hell and back now.

Chrysis wrote:
The Xiphon can be given the Thousand Sons legion, the Rapiers cannot. The Changling and other Daemons can't be Thousand Sons, but can still be included in the same detachment for now as they share the Chaos keyword. For the moment this doesn't change anything for you, but when the Thousand Sons get their own codex things will change.

Alright, but I could still bring everything, since they all have the <CHAOS> keyword, even the Rapiers? How would that change when the codex comes out do you think? Won't they still have the <CHAOS> keyword, which makes it work?

 alleus wrote:
Hello people, new TS (40k) player here. I am planning on using my 30k Thousand Sons in 40k as well, and I have some questions that I don't really think are properly explained in the index/BRB.

I am slightly confused on what units I can pick. Looking in the Chaos index, there is a specific army list for Thousand Sons. Are these the only units I can pick for my Thousand Sons army? If I understand the faction keyword system correctly, shouldn't I also be able to take any <CHAOS> unit as well?

Read the rules literally on that page. They state that only the units on that list may be given the Thousand Sons LEGION keyword. As daemons do not have the legion keyword, they are not able to be Thousand Sons, however you can still use them in your army because they share either the Chaos or Tzeentch keyword instead. This simply wouldn't be a Thousand Sons detachment when the new codex comes out.

Normal marines have the same problem. Daemons cannot take Legion keywords and so including any of them in your detachment will break your legion traits and stratagem access. So to avoid these problems, always treat daemons as an ally with their own detachment if you want legion benefits. Note that the Thousand Sons benefit for Troop Rubrics is tied to the keyword they take, not to having a Thousand Sons detachment, so you STILL gain this benefit in a mixed detachment.

Until our code comes out with legion benefits, we are free to mix daemons and any kind of marine all we want. The only restrictions are on what units are allowed to be the Thousand Sons legion, which benefits from Magnus/Ahriman/Exalted Sorcerers.

Right. I did not know that everything needs the Thousand Sons keyword in order to benefit from legion traits. I mean, we can't be 100% sure it will be like that, but looking at the Space Marine codex, that is the case.

Oh well, until the codex comes out my list will work, albeit not all units will benefit from Thousand Sons abilities. Hopefully the codex will have some nice stuff to compensate for not being able to take FW models.

 alleus wrote:
Right. I did not know that everything needs the Thousand Sons keyword in order to benefit from legion traits. I mean, we can't be 100% sure it will be like that, but looking at the Space Marine codex, that is the case.

Oh well, until the codex comes out my list will work, albeit not all units will benefit from Thousand Sons abilities. Hopefully the codex will have some nice stuff to compensate for not being able to take FW models.

You actually can run a number of FW models because they are granted the right to take the Thousand Sons keyword in one of the FAQs. To benefit from Thousand Sons legion rules, you only need a detachment where everything has the Thousand Sons keyword.

Oh. I might need to read up some more on this. Seems like there is a bunch of info in a lot of different places.

Thanks for the answers Arkaine, appreciate it

In addition, all the FW Dreadnaughts we're granted the 'Hellbrute' keyword (First FAQ), further letting you slot them into a TS detachment.

Hey all! I've recently decided on TSons as my second army as I love the models and the fluff. I've come up with a very rough 2K list to aim my purchases at, but I've had zero play with or against TS.

Magnus the Red
Ahriman on disc
Demon Prince with Wings + Sword
2 x 10 Rubrics with Soulreaper
10~ Tzaangors
5 Scarab Termies
Helbrute with ML and LC
2 x 3 Chaos spawn

Mostly just picked out the units I liked the look of. I don't seem to see the spawn used much but they seem like a great cheap option for T5 wound soaking and doing some decent damage if they get ignored.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Claws seem better in most cases.

Actually, as Thousand-Sons-Sorcerer pointed out, they all have their uses (well, mostly).

I've run some mathhammer some times ago for each one and the conclusion was :

_the Axe is better against high T multi-wound models or T4 models with 3 wounds. It also benefits more from Prescience.
_the Claws are better against hordes of 1W models and T4 models with 2 wounds.
_the Sword is... pretty bad. Maybe a little better than Claws against T4 models with 3 wounds but I can't remember.

Ok, so just a casual player here. So I understand this, when making an army, everything has to have one key word (Chaos for example) to be battle forged, correct? Then if I want the benefits of a Thousand Sons legion, they all have to have the Thousand Sons key word.

Hey guys, decided to start with 1000 Sons as well, after their nice models tempted me for years.
With a new codex coming out soon even better.

The goal will be:

Ahriman
Exalted Sorcerer
Prince with wings
A lot Rubrics
2-3x Scarab Occult Terminators
Preditor
Forgefiend (based on a Khemri Necrosphinx)
Some Rhinos
Tzeengors / Demons to shield / screen

No Magnus because i don`t like the model and will play Ahriman anyway.

Did some research, this thread inkluded, which left me with some questions:


1. Is the list fluffy or have i missed something essential? Couldn`t find more infos but this seems about right and we play fluff > strenght.

2. Wanna buy a lord of change for the prince, is the model about the same size? Think the lord is a bit taller but the model is so awesome. Since i play in a mostly non competitive environment this would be no problem but sometimes i play tournaments so it`s good to know.

3. How exactly does the inferno bolter differ from a normal bolter? (Model wise) It`s basicly a normal bolter with some added magic / magic bolts so i can use normal bolters and paint them glowy?
Asking because i wanna mix the original rubric marines with conversion kit models and i`m not sure about the bolters jet. Plan was to pimp normal bolters with some egyptian stuff to get the look right. (The GW models seem to have mostly normal bolters with extra decoration.)

4. I don`t have any of the HH books and my research did not bring up answers: Is it possible and fluffy for an 40k 1000 Sons army to have some of the Forgeworld HH stuff? If yes, which and in what numbers? I really like some of the models but i want to stay fluffy here. Also which colour sheme would be the right one then?

 nintura wrote:
Ok, so just a casual player here. So I understand this, when making an army, everything has to have one key word (Chaos for example) to be battle forged, correct? Then if I want the benefits of a Thousand Sons legion, they all have to have the Thousand Sons key word.

At the moment, it doesn't really matter. The common keyword can be Chaos.
When the Thousand Sons codex comes out there will probably be advantages to fielding detachments of Pure Thousand Sons units. But no army wide benefits, so detachments of other chaos stuff will be fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grotrebel wrote:


1. Is the list fluffy or have i missed something essential? Couldn`t find more infos but this seems about right and we play fluff > strenght.

2. Wanna buy a lord of change for the prince, is the model about the same size? Think the lord is a bit taller but the model is so awesome. Since i play in a mostly non competitive environment this would be no problem but sometimes i play tournaments so it`s good to know.

3. How exactly does the inferno bolter differ from a normal bolter? (Model wise) It`s basicly a normal bolter with some added magic / magic bolts so i can use normal bolters and paint them glowy?
Asking because i wanna mix the original rubric marines with conversion kit models and i`m not sure about the bolters jet. Plan was to pimp normal bolters with some egyptian stuff to get the look right. (The GW models seem to have mostly normal bolters with extra decoration.)

4. I don`t have any of the HH books and my research did not bring up answers: Is it possible and fluffy for an 40k 1000 Sons army to have some of the Forgeworld HH stuff? If yes, which and in what numbers? I really like some of the models but i want to stay fluffy here. Also which colour sheme would be the right one then?

1: sure, looks fluffy for Ahrimans Coven.

2. The new Lord of change is Much bigger than a prince. Wouldn't recommend.

3: Its Just a fancy bolter.

4:The thousand sons still have access to all the HH vehicles (Although everything in Prospero got destroyed, there was a substantial amount of armour on the fleet which scattered).
Probably not in huge numbers, but they have access to it all
Colour wise , the wrath of Magnus book has different options, but most factions are now repainted blue, and the vehicles likely the same.
But one faction kept the pre heresy scheme is cool, so you can use that.

Pure 1k Sons leaves you with a very small army I found out.


Also, Gotrebel, here you go. Duncan's own Thousand Sons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HOLM7dXiyk

I also have my own Thousand Sons in my painting blog below. Im doing the standard Thousand Sons blue for the automatons, however, for the Sorcerers in my army, I'm painting then in their pre-heresy candy apple red. Makes it easier to pick out the psykers.

Yeah, pure 1k Sons is an elite army. No getting around that. Rubrics tech'd come in at over 200+ as do the terminators. And if you play Magnus... 2000 points gets eaten up quick.

Adding to my Thousand Sons army for a 45 PL game in a couple weeks. I already have Ahriman on Disc for Prescience and Warp Time. So should I take a Prince or Heldrake? The biggest issues I had last time were shooty armies just sitting back with ridiculous heavy 20 weapons and -2 armor lasguns....

Currently I'm still working on building up my Thousand Sons army as well, primarily using PL (since I'm not competitive enough to use points in pickup games). So far I've had the hardest time against Imperial Guard. Their massed firepower and vehicles seem to be a soft counter to a pure TS list. The Culexus Assassin (the anti-psyker one) is also FAR to cheap for the shutdown he brings (at 5 PL, not sure about points). -2 to psychic tests, can't be targeted by powers, can only be hit on 6+ in ranged and melee, can target whatever he wishes, and has an invuln save.

Currently I have available to me:
2x10 Rubrics (Soulreaper, bolters/flamers to outfit each squad entirely with that type, though I mix them)
2x5 Scarab Occult Terminators (Soulreaper & Missiles)
1x10 Tzangors (blades only)
3x1 Exalted Sorcerers (2 foot, 1 disk, and I like the models)
1 Rhino

In progress of being built:
1 Forgefiend (magnetized head and weapons so I can swap them out)
1 Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnaught (magnetized weapons, but have C-Beam, Melta, converted Chain fist)
1 Demon Prince (wings, double claws)

Currently I'm more biding my time until the new Codex comes out, and enjoying getting some games in. I am looking forward to getting the Contemptor onto the table and actually hitting a large unit with the C-Beam.

Thanks for the answers!

That Idea with the pre heresy paint scheme is nice.
I like the Pre Heresy Thousand Sons but the blue golden scheme is even better.
Going to give my Sorcerer Champions the Puppetswar Anubis head.
There are really amazing conversion sets out there and it seems the Codex is a rules only release with no new models anyway by what i`ve read so far.



@Rubrics & Scarabs: With so many anti infantary weapons running around and lots of units dashing out buckets of attacks they seem pretty durable.
Expensive units that get even better when targeting the enemy heavy fire fast.


@Smite Spam: What are your experiences so far with that?
Sure works only on the nearest unit but vs elite like all the other marines you will always hit juice targets.
Is perils a problem the command rerolls can handle?

Curious what we will see with the codex release.
An strategem to cast a power twice would be nice to give more flexibility.

For the moment there is at least some stuff in the new Chaos Codex to play around.

I looooove smite spam. One thing I'm curious about is do you need line of sight? It says nearest enemy unit, not nearest visible enemy unit. And what happens if you can't see the nearest but there's one farther away that you can see?

Well it actually says "the closest visible unit" so you need LOS.