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 Ghaz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Assassins, Inquisition, Ministorum, are going to be lumped together as Imperial Agents. Sisters of Silence and Custodes will be lumped together as Talons of the Emperor. Ynnari may or may not even get something. So I see it more like the following:

1. Space Eolves,
2. Deathwatch
3. Imperial Agents
4. Talons of the Emperor (or Adepta Sororitas if the Talons armies go in Imperial Agents)
5. Orks
6. Genestealers Cult
7. Dark Eldar
8. Harlequins
9. Tau
10. Necrons
11. Thousand Sons

Daemons are in January.

Imperial Knights is missing.

They're in the admech book, while yes they aren't their own list, it might be a sensible chance for GW to move away from it anyway.

The Knightly Houses aligned with the Adeptus Mechanicus are in the Admech book. Not all the Houses are aligned with them, and there are still the Freeblades as well.

How do you expect to make them represent these forces? Any meaningful buffs will prove too much, plus since you can have a detachment of 1, you can abuse the houses too easily. Plus the stratagem would have to be tame, I wouldn't expect to be seeing deepstriking knights or anything creative.

So the 11 factions that will likely get updates in the book will be

1. Dark Eldar
2. Harlequinns
3. Orks
4. Tau
5. Necrons
6. Thousand Sons
7. Space Wolves
8. Genestealer Cult
9. Talons of the Emperor + Imperial Agents (expected to be all in one)
10. Deathwatch
11. Knights (possibily Imperial and Renegade?)

In my view, you're almost 100% more likely to get a Knights Codex than you are a separate one for both Talons and Agents. I'm also not really expecting Ynnari to get a codex, especially with the nerf they got recently. I expect them to now be focused on being a small part of a soup army drawing on the other detachment stratagems.

I'd love to see Imperial Knights get access to some of the same options as the Renegade Knight, bit filthy, but damn it..

The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

This was my thinking, imagine knights with additional attacks on the charge or -1 to hit at range being balanced alongside relics that are weapons +1 or a warlord trait to shrug off wounds.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

They had half a dozen or so relics before in 7th, so it'd be easily enough to just transfer them over and leave it at that. They also had several options via formations which will also prob make it across.

Dudeface wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

This was my thinking, imagine knights with additional attacks on the charge or -1 to hit at range being balanced alongside relics that are weapons +1 or a warlord trait to shrug off wounds.

Pretty much. Wraithknights can't get relics or Warlord Traits, I see no reason to think Imperial Knights will.

When determining who is in Chapter Approved, it might be useful to start here:

https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/#armies-of-the-imperium

Listed on the site as separate factions we have:

1. Blood Angels
2. Dark Angels
3. Space Wolves
4. Deathwatch
5. Adeptus Sororitas
6. Sisters of Silence
7. Imperial Agents
8. Adeptus Custodes
9. Chaos Daemons
10. Thousand Sons
11. Harlequins
12. Dark Eldar
13. Ynnari
14. Genestealers
15. Orks
16. Necrons
17. Tau
18. Imperial Knights

So we just have to guess who the unlucky 7 are. I'm raising this because I think the site shows that GW is not planning to do "Talons of the Emperor" for 8th nor merge them into Imperial Agents. They're already listed separately.

Thus, while they might get Codex treatment later (and I'd LOVE them to) Custodes and Sisters probably get nothing in Chapter Approved. If they do get the full treatment later, Custodes will likely get a conversion HQ (ala Grandmaster in Nemesis Dreadknight).

Alright, we're down to 16.

I think they intend to for Ynnari to remain a soup army for now based on having certain characters. They also would likely not have FAQ'd Strength from Death if it was covered in Chapter Approved. I'm betting scratch them too. 15.

Imperial Knights had Warlord Traits and Relics in 7th. They also seem to be a popular line. I bet they are included.

While I fully believe Deatwatch will get the Codex treatment, I do not believe they'll get anything in Chapter Approved just because there aren't that many Deathwatch people. GW can take their time without hurting things too much and CA's additions look like a stop-gap measure. 14.

3 more need to be removed and I bet it's simply the next 3 factions to get Codices. So if you know who those 3 are then you probably have your list of 11 for CA.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I won't drop a dollar on that crummy book, but don't Knights get Canticles?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

This was my thinking, imagine knights with additional attacks on the charge or -1 to hit at range being balanced alongside relics that are weapons +1 or a warlord trait to shrug off wounds.

Pretty much. Wraithknights can't get relics or Warlord Traits, I see no reason to think Imperial Knights will.

Wraithknights never could get Relics or Warlord Traits though.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I won't drop a dollar on that crummy book, but don't Knights get Canticles?

Knights do not have the Canticles of the Omnissiah, so no. They don't. House does absolutely nothing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

This was my thinking, imagine knights with additional attacks on the charge or -1 to hit at range being balanced alongside relics that are weapons +1 or a warlord trait to shrug off wounds.

Pretty much. Wraithknights can't get relics or Warlord Traits, I see no reason to think Imperial Knights will.

Wraithknights never could get Relics or Warlord Traits though.

Not technically, Iyanden WK could be Warlords.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I won't drop a dollar on that crummy book, but don't Knights get Canticles?

Knights do not have the Canticles of the Omnissiah, so no. They don't. House does absolutely nothing.

Mmmk.

So basically they get to be like Tempestus in a Cadian army; they don't have any native benefits.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

This was my thinking, imagine knights with additional attacks on the charge or -1 to hit at range being balanced alongside relics that are weapons +1 or a warlord trait to shrug off wounds.

Pretty much. Wraithknights can't get relics or Warlord Traits, I see no reason to think Imperial Knights will.

Wraithknights never could get Relics or Warlord Traits though.

Not technically, Iyanden WK could be Warlords.

Yeah, but that required a long-outdated supplement.

Knights can only use canticles when paired with a HQ and spending a CP.

 Verviedi wrote:
Open Play never works without negotiation, to ensure that both sides are balanced. Otherwise someone can say they’re bringing Space Marines, take a Fellblade and entire Terminator company, and either make the game utterly unfun, or force the other player to turn down the game. That conversation has never taken place, ever, except for possibly the greenest of noobs who don’t know what a Stompa is, or how strong their armies are.

Or for people who are, y'know ... friends? I know what's in my friends' armies, they know what's in mine. None of us are sufficiently petty as to deliberately try to make our opponents feel like they've wasted an afternoon.

And now you're about to come back and point out that this doesn't work in "pick-up" games at shops amongst strangers? Quite possibly, but so what? Who decided that is the only environment worth supporting?

Even with your ... expanded conversation, it's not like we're negotiating a corporate merger. It's a matter of minutes, if that. Or a couple of Facebook messages.

I think it is safe to assume that all of the "classic" armies (i.e. armies that existed in 5th or before) will be covered. So that is

Space Wolves
Dark Eldar
Orks
Necrons
Tau

(I know sisters are pre-5th, but they have been getting the short end of the stick for a while, so I don't include them yet, and the old inquisition books are basally grey knights and sisters)

That leaves 6 armies since they mention 11. Thousand Sons is highly likely since they explicitly state they are getting a codex in the CSM codex. I would also suspect that Genestealer Cult and Harliquines will be included as those armies are pretty stand alone and I don't think either are included in their "parent" codex's (Eldar/Tyranids). So that is 8. I agree with others that Ynnari probably won't be included because of the FAQ. That leaves 3 spots for the various Imperial sub-factions that remain. Quite frankly I think it is a complete toss up, but if I had to guess it will probably be Sisters of Battle and Deathwatch, and probably imperial knight houses. I think the rest are so niche that they are probably not included here. Of course a book called "Imperial Agents" that includes knights would then cover everything.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Houses do absolutely nothing though. I would not be surprised if Knights don't get any relics or Warlord Traits.

The edition change has left the Knight houses in a bit of an awkward place. Their point value have elevated to the point that a Knight army is at most 4 units, where even then there isn't the flexibility or options to build an "army" that neatly fits different sized games. Unless GW introduces more units for a Knights army to work with, I think Knights should be regarded as just another "agent of the Imperium" type list.

I gave a fear in my gut GW will just forget Orks and never talk about them again. XD

The Imperial Knight novel introduced really cool support vehicles that act as command vehicles / transports / moving workshops that the sacristans crew. Sacristans would also be a good addition.

It would also be cool to see the Angelic Host support network be turned into a proper rule for non-Mechanicus aligned Houses.

 lolman1c wrote:
I gave a fear in my gut GW will just forget Orks and never talk about them again. XD

They might get something for looted vehicles in Chapter Approved at some point, the way they did in White Dwarf for 7th ed (though it might be fun if they went back more toward the 3rd edition looted vehicle rules).

It would be hilarious, though, if they gave a write up in Chapter Approved for a way for Orks to loot other armies' Relics the way they used to loot vehicles. I'm sure if they do it would be for open play only.

 BrookM wrote:
The Imperial Knight novel introduced really cool support vehicles that act as command vehicles / transports / moving workshops that the sacristans crew. Sacristans would also be a good addition.

It would also be cool to see the Angelic Host support network be turned into a proper rule for non-Mechanicus aligned Houses.

I was surprised that we didn't get rules for House-aligned Skitarii and the like. Missed opportunity there.

I'm hoping that the Knights will see foot troops of some kind. It makes the addition of Autoguns to the IG Veteran armory make so much more sense then, as it could be a double kit potentially where it's the House troops with autoguns or IG Veterans with autoguns.

I could see Talons being folded into Imperial Agents. They're only two units outside of 30k, not nearly enough to get their own codex. I could see 'em fleshing out 40k Custodes in the future though.

Imperial Knights I think will retain their own book, but my question is what they're going to do with Renegade Knights. Will they get folded in as a separate 'House' in a Knight book, or just keep Chaos players using the Index?

 Arbitrator wrote:
I could see Talons being folded into Imperial Agents. They're only two units outside of 30k, not nearly enough to get their own codex. I could see 'em fleshing out 40k Custodes in the future though.

Sisters of Silence have a unit for each weapon loadout they can take.

Imperial Knights I think will retain their own book, but my question is what they're going to do with Renegade Knights. Will they get folded in as a separate 'House' in a Knight book, or just keep Chaos players using the Index?

I think that Renegade Knights might actually end up in an Iron Warriors or Dark Mechanicus book if they happen. There was some rumbling about the second one awhile back.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Open Play never works without negotiation, to ensure that both sides are balanced. Otherwise someone can say they’re bringing Space Marines, take a Fellblade and entire Terminator company, and either make the game utterly unfun, or force the other player to turn down the game. That conversation has never taken place, ever, except for possibly the greenest of noobs who don’t know what a Stompa is, or how strong their armies are.

Or for people who are, y'know ... friends? I know what's in my friends' armies, they know what's in mine. None of us are sufficiently petty as to deliberately try to make our opponents feel like they've wasted an afternoon.

And now you're about to come back and point out that this doesn't work in "pick-up" games at shops amongst strangers? Quite possibly, but so what? Who decided that is the only environment worth supporting?

Even with your ... expanded conversation, it's not like we're negotiating a corporate merger. It's a matter of minutes, if that. Or a couple of Facebook messages.

Which means negotiating custom predator, custom aspect warrior etc is a breese. Especially as open play isn't concerned with points so no need for super detailed point analyse

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/21/get-ready-for-chapter-approved-new-faction-rules-nov-21gw-homepage-post-3/

Imperial Knight Warlord with Relics boys!

Well the Harlequin & Space Wolf stratagems and Knight relic tie up with the leaks....

Faeit did get the space wolves strategem correct.

Man nothing for the Talons yet. At least I'll get some stuff for Deathwatch.

Also I like the Puppies' True Grit strategem.

As far as knights go (at least the Imperial ones, until Exodites finally rock up!) I wonder how far you could go by cheerfully ripping off some of the old Bretonnian character ‘favours’, suitably adapted of course...

 xttz wrote:
Well the Harlequin & Space Wolf stratagems and Knight relic tie up with the leaks....

Faeit was right for once! I'm gonna check back those leaks now, I have forgot most of them

So this looks good for Primaris. Nearly every Primaris units receive a point drop.

Interesting that Chaos Daemons, Khorne Daemonkin, Ynnari, and Imperial Rando's aren't codexed OR in the Chapter Approved. Ynnari and Imperial Soup stuff I can understand, and if Daemons are going to be one of (if not the) first codex of the new year I get that too. But Khorne...