Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Tea time is sacred and only a heathen would dare violate its sanctity.

Some guys in Boston disagreed about 240 or so years ago...

Think that one pretty much explains itself.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Tea time is sacred and only a heathen would dare violate its sanctity.

Some guys in Boston disagreed about 240 or so years ago...

The tea was being unfairly taxed without allowing for colonial representation in the government. We were fond of tea before that but someone had to screw it up for the colonies by making it unreasonably priced....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiru wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Tea time is sacred and only a heathen would dare violate its sanctity.

Some guys in Boston disagreed about 240 or so years ago...

Think that one pretty much explains itself.

True story. Boston is kinda nuts. I mean didn't they riot when the Red Sox finally won a World Series for the first time in an unreasonable amount of time?

Can we please get back on topic ? Which is rules comedy 8th edition.

This is AoS rather than 40k but I think it’s appropriate; if you use the Doppleganger cloak against Nighthaunt, is it like sticking a bedsheet over your head?

The changeling can take the form of Ahriman and beat him to death with his own black staff.

Unless Ahriman is standing on his disc, then the changeling has the fighting abilities of a pox walker and the trickster's staff crashes with a bluescreen.

Blast weapons can only hit one tank at a time, even if they're right next to each other, but have no trouble killing 1d6 infantry at max dispersion, and with the majority out of sight, as long as they're in the same squad.

 insaniak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I remember it also being unable to be modified past a certain amount (basically a proto-invulnerable save) but I don't see it mentioned in the Ultramarine codex. If someone knows what I am thinking about (or if I am just plain wrong) please let me know.

No, that wasn't a thing. It was just the save on 2 dice. The drop from that to the straight 2+ save in 3rd ed was painful...

However, the highest save modifier was a -6. That meant that a roll of 9+ on 2d6 always saved a terminator during 2nd edition.

A Lascannon had a -6, as did a krak missile. Meltaguns and Multimelta were -4, and plasma was a -2, giving a terminator a 5+ save on 2d6. Easy peasy. Berzerker Terminators had a +1 to their armor save, for a base 2+ on 2d6. Tough bastards.

Also there was the additional defensive bonus where an enemy unit could only shoot the closest unit, generally speaking.

-------
Now if I recall, during Rogue Trader Terminator armor was a 2+ on a single dice, but it always saved on a 6+. The reason given was that Terminator armor included a Refractor Field. Something like that anyways.

 Mmmpi wrote:
Blast weapons can only hit one tank at a time, even if they're right next to each other, but have no trouble killing 1d6 infantry at max dispersion, and with the majority out of sight, as long as they're in the same squad.

A Demolisher Cannon can wipe out a 3-man squad or a 5-man squad in a single firing action, but not a 4-man squad.

A supersonic jet, the end result of millenia of technical research and development can only fly in straight lines.

but as soon as a lone space marine with a jump pack and a chainsword charges in to attack it can halt in mid air .. pivot gently around .. flip 180 degrees and then fly off .. all in the space of 3 feet.

(as far as I'm aware nothing stops flyers from piling in, consolidating both in any direction and eventually falling back)

A genetically enhanced super soldier in Terminator armor has the same strength as an initiate in scout armor, and less strength than a a genetically flawed mutant with a club (Bullgryn)

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
A genetically enhanced super soldier in Terminator armor has the same strength as an initiate in scout armor, and less strength than a a genetically flawed mutant with a club (Bullgryn)

Heck, we can do even better than that: a Terminator doesn't even have as much strength as a xenos infected mutant with a stop sign (Abberant).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
A genetically enhanced super soldier in Terminator armor has the same strength as an initiate in scout armor, and less strength than a a genetically flawed mutant with a club (Bullgryn)

Heck, we can do even better than that: a Terminator doesn't even have as much strength as a xenos infected mutant with a stop sign (Abberant).

Strength is Force, Force = Mass x Acceleration.

Terminators are bigger and heavier, but also slower.

However because they're bigger and heavier, they also more commonly carry weapons that add to their strength. (or their 'penetration', which is the same as strength but in a different way).

Though I'm not sure why aberrants are strong. Though I think they're faster than terminators so that may be it.

Niiru wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
A genetically enhanced super soldier in Terminator armor has the same strength as an initiate in scout armor, and less strength than a a genetically flawed mutant with a club (Bullgryn)

Heck, we can do even better than that: a Terminator doesn't even have as much strength as a xenos infected mutant with a stop sign (Abberant).

Strength is Force, Force = Mass x Acceleration.

Terminators are bigger and heavier, but also slower.

However because they're bigger and heavier, they also more commonly carry weapons that add to their strength. (or their 'penetration', which is the same as strength but in a different way).

Though I'm not sure why aberrants are strong. Though I think they're faster than terminators so that may be it.

Are you trying to bring logic into 40k? Shame on you.

I'd argue that a Terminator walks slower because the armour is designed to effectively lock in place and then go town on the enemy (via shooting) and thus acts as a stable platform for the wearer at the cost of needing to disengage with every step, slightly slowing the movement speed of the wearer. We've seen nothing that suggests that a Terminator fights or reacts slower than a regular Marine though, and I'd argue that due to the mass of extra artifical muscle fibers in the suit they should be hitting harder than a regular Marine, and shouldn't be getting a penalty for hitting with a power fist either.

Plus, for termiantors, most weapon penetration comes from an active disruption field and not the weapon itself. Which means the weapon doesn't need to weigh too much to be effective at tearing through things.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
A genetically enhanced super soldier in Terminator armor has the same strength as an initiate in scout armor, and less strength than a a genetically flawed mutant with a club (Bullgryn)

Heck, we can do even better than that: a Terminator doesn't even have as much strength as a xenos infected mutant with a stop sign (Abberant).

Strength is Force, Force = Mass x Acceleration.

Terminators are bigger and heavier, but also slower.

However because they're bigger and heavier, they also more commonly carry weapons that add to their strength. (or their 'penetration', which is the same as strength but in a different way).

Though I'm not sure why aberrants are strong. Though I think they're faster than terminators so that may be it.

Are you trying to bring logic into 40k? Shame on you.

I'd argue that a Terminator walks slower because the armour is designed to effectively lock in place and then go town on the enemy (via shooting) and thus acts as a stable platform for the wearer at the cost of needing to disengage with every step, slightly slowing the movement speed of the wearer. We've seen nothing that suggests that a Terminator fights or reacts slower than a regular Marine though, and I'd argue that due to the mass of extra artifical muscle fibers in the suit they should be hitting harder than a regular Marine, and shouldn't be getting a penalty for hitting with a power fist either.

Plus, for termiantors, most weapon penetration comes from an active disruption field and not the weapon itself. Which means the weapon doesn't need to weigh too much to be effective at tearing through things.

To quote "Galaxy in Flames":

Galaxy in Flames wrote:Terminator Armour was huge. It made a man into a walking tank, but what it added in protection, it lost in speed. Abaddon was skilful and could fight almost as fast as any other Astartes while clad in its thick plates. But ‘almost’ wasn’t good enough when life or death was at stake.

Still, it makes no sense for Terminators to not be T5 and S5 with what they cost.

And yet when we had initiative values the armour only impacted the ability for Terminators to sweep units, not their ability to fight at initiative with weapons that weren't "unwieldy" (powerfists, chainfists, thunder hammers). So in game terms the book is wrong.

Lets not forget the fact that a SCOUT HAS THE SAME STRENGTH??? So technically, a Scout should be able to wield an assault cannon in one arm, and deck a Titan in the snoot with his power fist on the other arm. JUST AS GOOD AS A DEATHWATCH TERMINATOR.

Had an interesting one come up in a game.

Melee units are easily distracted! After charging and killing a squad of scouts, a set of berserkers wish to advance forward with their combat momentum towards the enemy rear support, but then berserker joe points out to the rest of the squad that an enemy storm raven has flown over their heads and is currently behind them in the sky.

They will now either stand in place discussing the flyer’s paint job or chase after it in a rage jumping up trying to reach it. Advancing towards the enemy rear support like the commander wished them to do is no longer on the table.

Mining tools used as weapons by mutated mine workers are as good, or even better, than real weapons used by space marines. GSC have a 12" heavy flamer, SM dont. Aberrants with power picks (a mining tool) hit harder than any space marine with a power sword, or power axe, which are real melee weapons. Some of these mutated mine workers dont suffer the penalty to move and fire with heavy weapons. No space marine can do that, vets who have 100 years of combat experience ? No way. Dev squads, which are specially trained to use heavy weapons ? No, they cant. Not even custodes, the best of the best of the best, have that ability.
A goliath rockgrinder is harder to kill than a SM troop transporter (rhino, razorback), which is designed for real combat, to withstand anti tank weapons. The rockgrinder is build to withstand falling rocks, yet somehow its also better at resisting a lascannon shot. A weapon designed to kill heavy armoured targets. A GSC psyker, with support, can kill a warlord battle titan with a single psychic power.

The eponymous 'burna' is literally the worst burner in the game.

To be fair, aberrants are horrific mutations that are significantly stronger than a space marine, and acolytes are as strong as a space marine but have an extra arm to allow them to us unweildly mining tools in combat. The heavy weapon neophytes also have an additional arm to help stabilise the weapons on the go

A third arm is able to stabilise a laser, but a dreadnought or a knight can not? what are the joints on those arms made of reinforced titanium?

In the next edition of the codex astartes all SM weapons will be discarded and marines will be fighting with mining tools as weapons, because they are simply better than real SM weapons.

 p5freak wrote:
In the next edition of the codex astartes all SM weapons will be discarded and marines will be fighting with mining tools as weapons, because they are simply better than real SM weapons.

Don't forget all IG armies and SM /CSM forces will replace their boltguns, lasguns, autoguns etc, for "DRUMMROLL": Stubpistols.

Yes that's right, we got stubpistols stronger then relic bolt weaponry. Stubpistols, not even autopistols.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Tea time is sacred and only a heathen would dare violate its sanctity.

Some guys in Boston disagreed about 240 or so years ago...

Right old chaps, let us throw some 'Mericans into the Thames and retire to the gentlemen's club for a nice cup of Earl Grey : )

Wasn't the disagreement about tea one of the taxation kind,and not one of tea times time or its necessity?

Karol,

Yes, it was a demonstration about over zealous taxation of the colonies at that point.

 Elbows wrote:
Karol,

Yes, it was a demonstration about over zealous taxation of the colonies at that point.

Actually wouldn't it be more along the line of legitimation of the taxation, since the colonies demanded to be also represented if they were taxed.

The taxation itself would've been no problem if it would've been coupled with rights.

The taxation was also higher than other locales, but yes the tag line is generally "no taxation without representation". The taxes had been raised numerous times and applied to an increasing number of items, etc.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Karol,

Yes, it was a demonstration about over zealous taxation of the colonies at that point.

Actually wouldn't it be more along the line of legitimation of the taxation, since the colonies demanded to be also represented if they were taxed.

The taxation itself would've been no problem if it would've been coupled with rights.

That would be the over-zealous aspect. So some of our ancestors violated the sanctity of tea time and introduced the concept to the local maritime fauna.