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Florence, KY

 Grimtuff wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Irbis wrote:

They don't. They have issue with stolen 1:1 copy paste designs GW made. They never went after someone making pauldrons/heads/etc with their own design. Funnily enough most knockoff makers aren't interesting in making these and prefer to steal GW images. Gee, how dare GW take issue with that, eh?


I underlined the incorrect part. They, in fact, have done exactly that on at least one occasion that I can think of. In fact, IIRC, it's one of the reasons they lost most of the Chapterhouse case, as many of the shoulder pads they claimed were copies, it turned out they weren't.


Here's a thread from this very site of GW (by proxy) going after a 3d printer custom shoulder pad store.

Your link shows that there may have been other circumstances that brought GW Legal down on him.

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Devon, UK

You mean the Dick Dasterdly thing?

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 Grimtuff wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Irbis wrote:

They don't. They have issue with stolen 1:1 copy paste designs GW made. They never went after someone making pauldrons/heads/etc with their own design. Funnily enough most knockoff makers aren't interesting in making these and prefer to steal GW images. Gee, how dare GW take issue with that, eh?


I underlined the incorrect part. They, in fact, have done exactly that on at least one occasion that I can think of. In fact, IIRC, it's one of the reasons they lost most of the Chapterhouse case, as many of the shoulder pads they claimed were copies, it turned out they weren't.


Here's a thread from this very site of GW (by proxy) going after a 3d printer custom shoulder pad store.


Four years later there's still shoulder pads on that store page among other things.


   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




That GW wasn't successful in completely getting his store removed doesn't mean they didn't go after him.

The statement was that GW has never gone after someone for custom shoulder pads. That statement is verifiably wrong. It was also a claim in the original chapterhouse suit - IIRC one they had to drop because it was making them look totally foolish, but it was in there to begin with.

GW has gone after people for custom shoulder pads. The statement to the contrary was objectively false.
   
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Bodt

My main question for stuff like this is, why? Why clamp down on fan films? Surely that's just free advertising? It's not like those fan film creators are stealing their customers in any way. Just seems so petty.

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Austria

 Daedalus81 wrote:
In the US there's tons of ways to avoid GW. I have no idea what it is like in other places though.

here it usually starts with GW supporting a FLGS, building up a multi game community, than killing the FLGS with high demands (need to order a specific high amount of "core products" while not allow him to get other stuff if he does not do it and increase that amount on a regular bases until the shop closes because he cannot afford to remove GW products but also not do not sell the good stuff) and opening a GW store next to the location of the FLGS shortly before it closes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
My main question for stuff like this is, why? Why clamp down on fan films? Surely that's just free advertising? It's not like those fan film creators are stealing their customers in any way. Just seems so petty.

because if 5 minute animations are available for free on Youtube, why should anyone pay GW to watch 5 minute animations

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/23 17:16:31


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United Kingdom

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW has gone after people for custom shoulder pads. The statement to the contrary was objectively false.
GW went after them for selling exact copies of FW shoulder pads.
   
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 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
My main question for stuff like this is, why? Why clamp down on fan films?
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beast_gts wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
GW has gone after people for custom shoulder pads. The statement to the contrary was objectively false.
GW went after them for selling exact copies of FW shoulder pads.


Who is "they" here? Chapterhouse? POP?

The original claim made in Chapterhouse was that the shape of the shoulderpads , no matter what was on them, was covered by GW's copyright and that anybody making similar-looking shoulder pads that fit on GW models was infringing GW's copyright. That claim got dropped before the final judgment because it was so ridiculous that even GW realized it was hurting its overall claim to keep making it, so they abandoned it. But it was in their initial claim papers. Just like the stuff about halberds etc.
   
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I know GW said in their IP rules about custom parts something about basing being a free for all, but it still strikes me as hypocritical that today on Warhammer-community they featured a lovely gigantic blood angels army chock full of 3d printed nameplates in the bases of all the characters.

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United Kingdom

yukishiro1 wrote:
Who is "they" here? Chapterhouse? POP?
POP. Sorry for not being clearer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/23 17:39:49


 
   
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 ph34r wrote:
I know GW said in their IP rules about custom parts something about basing being a free for all, but it still strikes me as hypocritical that today on Warhammer-community they featured a lovely gigantic blood angels army chock full of 3d printed nameplates in the bases of all the characters.


I dunno, to be fair to GW they have said that self-3D printed stuff is fine, and that it's ok to use third-party bases. So either way, that bit seems fine to me.

If you really want to nitpick that article, the custodes telemon dread is really not converted enough to be a BW leviathan dread and would technically fall afoul of their "proxying" rules if used in a game in the sense that it's really just one model standing in for another. It's just a custodes dread painted in BW colors with the weapons swapped, the body is totally unchanged.

I think the more interesting thing is that by showcasing all these "converted" armies that are just GW bits from different kits stuck together, they're subtly reinforcing a message that "conversions" can still only use GW bits. This seems to be the new corporate line - "conversion" means any model that has GW bits other than those that come in its kit, anything else other than scratch-made components are totally prohibited.
   
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yukishiro1 wrote:
I think the more interesting thing is that by showcasing all these "converted" armies that are just GW bits from different kits stuck together, they're subtly reinforcing a message that "conversions" can still only use GW bits. This seems to be the new corporate line - "conversion" means any model that has GW bits other than those that come in its kit, anything else other than scratch-made components are totally prohibited.


This jives with the rest of their marketing which seems to restrict The Hobby™ exclusively to activities that involve only products you can buy from them.

No more articles about building terrain out of cereal boxes when you need to push sales of your Adeptus Mechanicus Pyrobastion™.
   
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yukishiro1 wrote:
beast_gts wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
GW has gone after people for custom shoulder pads. The statement to the contrary was objectively false.
GW went after them for selling exact copies of FW shoulder pads.


Who is "they" here? Chapterhouse? POP?

The original claim made in Chapterhouse was that the shape of the shoulderpads , no matter what was on them, was covered by GW's copyright and that anybody making similar-looking shoulder pads that fit on GW models was infringing GW's copyright. That claim got dropped before the final judgment because it was so ridiculous that even GW realized it was hurting its overall claim to keep making it, so they abandoned it. But it was in their initial claim papers. Just like the stuff about halberds etc.


There's two phases of GW at play. The Chapterhouse one from a decade ago and whatever they were doing with POP. It's unclear to me as to exactly what was removed from the POP store based on the old thread, but it sounds like replicas got removed and not custom work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/23 18:23:17


   
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 Grimtuff wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Irbis wrote:

They don't. They have issue with stolen 1:1 copy paste designs GW made. They never went after someone making pauldrons/heads/etc with their own design. Funnily enough most knockoff makers aren't interesting in making these and prefer to steal GW images. Gee, how dare GW take issue with that, eh?


I underlined the incorrect part. They, in fact, have done exactly that on at least one occasion that I can think of. In fact, IIRC, it's one of the reasons they lost most of the Chapterhouse case, as many of the shoulder pads they claimed were copies, it turned out they weren't.


Here's a thread from this very site of GW (by proxy) going after a 3d printer custom shoulder pad store.


Having a quick look at that thread it shows just how hyperbolic some of the posts here are. While they're copyright and not trademarks, GW won several claims involving things such as "Roman Numerals" and" Banded armour" and the Halberd.

3. Chapterhouse has been found to infringe Games Workshop’s copyrights with respect to the following forty-nine products (product numbers refer to numbering in Plaintiff’s Trial Exhibits 1020 and 1021):


Selected Shoulder pads:
“Terminator pad for Exorcist Space Marine,”
“Power Armour Pad for Exorcist,”
one of the “Sawblade Shoulder Pad & Jewel” pads,
“Shoulder Pad for Serpent or Iron Snakes – Terminator,”
“Shoulder Pad for Serpent or Iron Snakes – Tactical,”
“Shoulder Pad w/ skull and flames - tactical”,
“Shoulder Pad w/ Studs and Skull for 28mm marine - Tactical”,
“Shoulder Pads for Chalice or Soul Drinker – Tactical,”
“Shoulder Pads for Chalice or Soul Drinker – Terminator,”
“Hammer of Dorn Power Armor Pad,”
“Hammer of Dorn Terminator Pad,”
“Power Armor Shoulder Pad for Scythes of the Emperor,”
“Scythes of the Emperor Terminator Shoulder Pad” (Products 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, 19, 20, 23, 24, 149, 150, 153, 154);
Assault Shoulder pad with number VII and VIII, Devastator marine shoulder pad with IX and X, Tactical shoulder pad with I, II, III, IV, IV, and VI (Products 46, 47, 51, 52, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62);
Crested shoulder pad (Product 49);
“Generic Power Armour Shoulder Pad” and “Smooth Shoulder Pad for 28mm tactical – marine” (Products 54, 55);
“Banded Tech Pad” and “Banded Armor Pad” compatible with power armor and terminator armor (Products 68, 73, 74);
Studded rimmed shoulder pad MKV, MK I Heresy Era for 28 mm Marines “Thunder Armor” shoulder pad,
studded power armor pad for MK 5 (Products 75, 78, 80); Tervigon conversion kit (Product 37);

Skull or Chaplain Head or Bit for Power Armor (product 3);
Heresy Era Jump Pack (Product 76);
Spikey heresy heads (Product 79);
Wolf Rhino Conversion Kit #1 and Wolf Rhino Conversion Kit #2 (Products 82, 104);
Iron Snake conversion kit for Rhino (Product 106);
Doomseer Iyanar Duanna (Product 108);
Gun Halberd (Product 112);
Conversion Beamer Servo Harness (Product 113);
Armana'serq Scorpion Warrior Princess (Product 123);
Open- Fisted power claws and Closed-Fisted power claws (Products 132, 133);
TRU Scale Knights Praetorius “Order of the Empress’s Tears” Conversion Kit and TRU-Scale Knight Praetorius Conversion Kit (Products 142, 143);
“Shrike Conversion Kit” (Product 159); Dark Elf Arch Torturess (Product 160).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/23 18:48:15


 
   
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 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Having a quick look at that thread it shows just how hyperbolic some of the posts here are. While they're copyright and not trademarks, GW won several claims involving things such as "Roman Numerals" and" Banded armour" and the Halberd.

3. Chapterhouse has been found to infringe Games Workshop’s copyrights with respect to the following forty-nine products (product numbers refer to numbering in Plaintiff’s Trial Exhibits 1020 and 1021):
Selected Shoulder pads:
“Terminator pad for Exorcist Space Marine,”
“Power Armour Pad for Exorcist,”
one of the “Sawblade Shoulder Pad & Jewel” pads,
“Shoulder Pad for Serpent or Iron Snakes – Terminator,”
“Shoulder Pad for Serpent or Iron Snakes – Tactical,”
“Shoulder Pad w/ skull and flames - tactical”,
“Shoulder Pad w/ Studs and Skull for 28mm marine - Tactical”,
“Shoulder Pads for Chalice or Soul Drinker – Tactical,”
“Shoulder Pads for Chalice or Soul Drinker – Terminator,”
“Hammer of Dorn Power Armor Pad,”
“Hammer of Dorn Terminator Pad,”
“Power Armor Shoulder Pad for Scythes of the Emperor,”
“Scythes of the Emperor Terminator Shoulder Pad” (Products 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, 19, 20, 23, 24, 149, 150, 153, 154);
Assault Shoulder pad with number VII and VIII, Devastator marine shoulder pad with IX and X, Tactical shoulder pad with I, II, III, IV, IV, and VI (Products 46, 47, 51, 52, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62);
Crested shoulder pad (Product 49);
“Generic Power Armour Shoulder Pad” and “Smooth Shoulder Pad for 28mm tactical – marine” (Products 54, 55);
“Banded Tech Pad” and “Banded Armor Pad” compatible with power armor and terminator armor (Products 68, 73, 74);
Studded rimmed shoulder pad MKV, MK I Heresy Era for 28 mm Marines “Thunder Armor” shoulder pad,
studded power armor pad for MK 5 (Products 75, 78, 80); Tervigon conversion kit (Product 37);

Skull or Chaplain Head or Bit for Power Armor (product 3);
Heresy Era Jump Pack (Product 76);
Spikey heresy heads (Product 79);
Wolf Rhino Conversion Kit #1 and Wolf Rhino Conversion Kit #2 (Products 82, 104);
Iron Snake conversion kit for Rhino (Product 106);
Doomseer Iyanar Duanna (Product 108);
Gun Halberd (Product 112);
Conversion Beamer Servo Harness (Product 113);
Armana'serq Scorpion Warrior Princess (Product 123);
Open- Fisted power claws and Closed-Fisted power claws (Products 132, 133);
TRU Scale Knights Praetorius “Order of the Empress’s Tears” Conversion Kit and TRU-Scale Knight Praetorius Conversion Kit (Products 142, 143);
“Shrike Conversion Kit” (Product 159); Dark Elf Arch Torturess (Product 160).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, most of those surviving counts were awarded due to their using certain GW phrases (MK V armour, 28mm Tactical Marine, Dorn, Soul Drinker) or putting them underneath GW trademarks on the webstore menu ('Space Marine Accessories') and so on. Chapterhouse themselves explicitly conflated and marketed their product with Games Workshop lore terminology. In the minds of the jury, even though the phrases weren't trademarked, this consequently associated the two and therefore the jury ruled that Games Workshop's IP had been infringed upon. It wasn't so much the physical product appearance that was being ruled illegal, but rather the conflated naming/description combined with the product by association.

Also IIRC just about every vaguely legit legal opinion I saw at the time (including at least one US IP lawyer, and several non-specialist lawyers) was that the jury had therefore not correctly applied the law as written - as this vague sense of conflation was not the basis for an actual legal infringement. They consequently thought that any further appeal would see these preliminary jury rulings thrown in the rubbish. Which is not unusual in and of itself - juries are extremely notorious for not understanding complex areas of law, not caring, applying a rough sense of 'fairness' instead, or even flat out disagreeing that the law should say what it does and ruling differently. Higher courts with more specialism exist for a reason.

The CH case was consequently winding up for its second round on that very basis when GW's lawyers managed to find a way to put the owner's house on the line; causing him to bail and come to a NDA agreement with GW.
The lesson which all the third party makers took away from the trial was 'Whether it's legal or not, using GW terminology may lead to you being at risk - so stay safe and market your shoulder pads in generic terms'. As opposed to 'Oh no, I must never make a shoulder pad again'. This is why even though the exact the same case contradictively ruled that you could loosely use GW phrases in aftermarket terms ('compatible with Tactical Marines', etc), virtually nobody does so. It's just 'Lion Shoulder Pad' or 'Roman Numeral Shoulder Pad'. Even the most sympathetic court GW could have hoped for didn't bother chasing stuff like that, so they know it's okay.

This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2021/07/23 19:13:51



 
   
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Macon, GA

The bottom line is that even if you push things to the utter limit, when you start playing around with derivative works you have to be able to convince a jury of six people that you didn't steal the stuff. Juries get stuff wrong all the time, but this is why legal advice tends to run quite conservative.

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I can't even use a company's IP to make money for myself? What is this corporate dystopian future we have sleepwalked into?!?

Joke's on them, I spent £20,000 on a 3d printer and for only £20 in resin I can cast as many of these bad boys as I like -



Keep drinking the GW cool-aid, suckers!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 09:51:40


 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I can't tell if you're joking or you honestly don't know how much a 3D printer costs, or the stuff that's out there for 3D printing.

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Austria

I guess he is joking by talking about Resin printer and showing a picture of a bad PLA print

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't tell if you're joking or you honestly don't know how much a 3D printer costs, or the stuff that's out there for 3D printing.

It's called sarcasm. It's a bit like joking but there's elements of truth in there as well.

Was there anything else you needed help with?
   
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Germany

DarkerBlue wrote:
I can't even use a company's IP to make money for myself? What is this corporate dystopian future we have sleepwalked into?!?

Joke's on them, I spent £20,000 on a 3d printer and for only £20 in resin I can cast as many of these bad boys as I like -



Keep drinking the GW cool-aid, suckers!


Joke's, in fact, on you, a 3D printer capable of achieving Forgeworld level of quality costs ~230$ nowadays. And Forgeworld would know, afterall, they 3D print their own masters. Usually forget to clean the print lines too, so it's not like you're missing out on that.
[Thumb - mph2zicmt1971.jpg]


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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DarkerBlue wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't tell if you're joking or you honestly don't know how much a 3D printer costs, or the stuff that's out there for 3D printing.

It's called sarcasm. It's a bit like joking but there's elements of truth in there as well.

Was there anything else you needed help with?

So, what are you being sarcastic about? The idea that you can't use a company's IP to make money? The idea that 3d prints can be as good/better than official ones? The cost of 3d printing?

I feel like there's mixed signals, there ^^
   
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DarkerBlue wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't tell if you're joking or you honestly don't know how much a 3D printer costs, or the stuff that's out there for 3D printing.

It's called sarcasm. It's a bit like joking but there's elements of truth in there as well.

Was there anything else you needed help with?


It's called the medium of text, where sarcasm is not easily conveyed. Poe's Law exists for a reason, ya know...

As a result, most people put "/s" at the end of something intended as sarcasm. Was there anything else you needed help with?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 12:14:31




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Bloody hell you're a sensitive bunch aren't you?
   
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Germany

DarkerBlue wrote:
Bloody hell you're a sensitive bunch aren't you?

You're the one throwing a hissy fit because people refuse to bend the knee to your favourite multi-billion dollar corporation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 12:36:35


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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DarkerBlue wrote:
I can't even use a company's IP to make money for myself? What is this corporate dystopian future we have sleepwalked into?!?

Joke's on them, I spent £20,000 on a 3d printer and for only £20 in resin I can cast as many of these bad boys as I like -



Keep drinking the GW cool-aid, suckers!


It made me chuckle.
Seems I was the only one that saw the humour in it.

Ah well. I guess some people are having a grumpy sunday.

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Affton, MO. USA

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
DarkerBlue wrote:
I can't even use a company's IP to make money for myself? What is this corporate dystopian future we have sleepwalked into?!?

Joke's on them, I spent £20,000 on a 3d printer and for only £20 in resin I can cast as many of these bad boys as I like -



Keep drinking the GW cool-aid, suckers!


It made me chuckle.
Seems I was the only one that saw the humour in it.

Ah well. I guess some people are having a grumpy sunday.

The Sarcasm didn’t match the image.put a nice print up there and accurate pricing and it would have been a good joke.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
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DarkerBlue wrote:
It's called sarcasm.
Yeah I don't think that word means what you think it means...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 13:44:48


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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
DarkerBlue wrote:
It's called sarcasm.
Yeah I don't think that word means what you think it means...



Inconceivable
   
 
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