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Yes, Hive Crones have just catapulted to one of the best units in the book.

Might not be the popular opinion, but I think I would trade all these FMC buffs to keep the ability to glide down from the air and assault in the same turn. It's something I did every game and really justified for me the fact that two Flyrants fill up to a third of my points. Now it feels like a lot of those points are going unused on that crazy high WS and number of attacks.

Same applies to me for Crone to me too, perhaps even more so. Gliding down, flaming and charging later on in a game feels like it was intended for the unit. Especially with the limited use missiles, and no torrent on the flamer. At least Flyrants have decent survivability and can still do all it's usual damage if it glides down a turn early (still don't know how plausible this is), the Crone however does not, and only has one, template-ranged gun left by the time you are looking to assault, and has to spend the turn not VS'ing just to pull off a charge.

I guess I'll have to see how the extra airborne FMC survivability plays out in a game. Grounding changes do a lot for us, and the mouth cannon being able to hit open topped helps balance the scales for us against some bad units to be matched up against (although I think DE is still an auto lose regardless). I haven't seen a copy of 7th yet, how does it work? Is every model inside hit with the template?

You inflict d6 hits to passengers.

FMCs can jink even when they're in jump mode.

That assault FMC will have a 4+ cover save prior to getting into melee.

If the enemy foolishly grounds your assault FMC it will be in combat 1 turn sooner.

You're all welcome.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
FMCs can jink even when they're in jump mode.

That assault FMC will have a 4+ cover save prior to getting into melee.

If the enemy foolishly grounds your assault FMC it will be in combat 1 turn sooner.

You're all welcome.

And if you happen to have Master of Ambush and infiltrate a Venomthrope or Outflank one it could possibly have a 2+ save....

So from an outsiders perspective, what do 'Nids have to offer as an Ally? A whole new world has been opened up and all of your Tyrants, Crones and 'Thropes can start slagging up the joint and hanging out with bad influences.
What strengths of the 'Nid book can be ported over to help out an Ally?

- Rippers are cheap, Objective-Secured minimum points for entry that can also Deep Strike, are largely immune to Synapse and are just all-round fantastic Troops to have now.
- Massed S6 firepower from Brainleeches
- Massed FMC spam, especially if you can ally a Skyblight
- Relatively good generators for Warp Charge
- Massed barrage weaponry from Biovores

As long as the 'Nid army can be deployed and moved up as a relatively independant entity, you can bypass the problems that come with Apocalyptic allies.
Any obvious standouts?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yes, Hive Crones have just catapulted to one of the best units in the book.

I don't see that.

They are ok, but they aren't great anymore.

The unit that benefits the most is the shooty FMC - our dakka flyrants. Crones aren't really shooty. Their best asset was in their vector-strikes, which has been greatly nerfed.

However, what I do like about them are their ability to put the hurt on kabalite warriors in venoms. If it f*cks with DE, then I'm all for it.





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 SHUPPET wrote:
Might not be the popular opinion, but I think I would trade all these FMC buffs to keep the ability to glide down from the air and assault in the same turn. It's something I did every game and really justified for me the fact that two Flyrants fill up to a third of my points. Now it feels like a lot of those points are going unused on that crazy high WS and number of attacks.

Same applies to me for Crone to me too, perhaps even more so. Gliding down, flaming and charging later on in a game feels like it was intended for the unit. Especially with the limited use missiles, and no torrent on the flamer. At least Flyrants have decent survivability and can still do all it's usual damage if it glides down a turn early (still don't know how plausible this is), the Crone however does not, and only has one, template-ranged gun left by the time you are looking to assault, and has to spend the turn not VS'ing just to pull off a charge.

I guess I'll have to see how the extra airborne FMC survivability plays out in a game. Grounding changes do a lot for us, and the mouth cannon being able to hit open topped helps balance the scales for us against some bad units to be matched up against (although I think DE is still an auto lose regardless). I haven't seen a copy of 7th yet, how does it work? Is every model inside hit with the template?

Personally, I have never had a large amount of success with flyrants in assault. It's almost always better to keep them in the air and just keep shooting with them.

However, there are times when you do need to assault with them:

1. To kill a unit on an objective near the end of the game.

2. To kill an AV14 vehicle. Well, the nerf to FMC's and also the nerf to Smash has made this especially bad for the bugs.

3. To try to hide him in combat to protect against heavy skyfire shooting.

It's just something we are going to have to get used to, just like not being able to assault the turn you disembark from rhinos between 5th and 6th editions. The fact that it's harder to ground FMC's now is the main reason why you will still see the Tyranid Airforce around.

Units inside an open-topped transport takes D6 hits from a temp weapon at the weapons Strength and AP. So you breath on a venom, you could potentially kill both the venom and the unit inside as well.





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You know what's funny?

Buildings that are claimed are now scoring.


That makes my venom-in-a-box (bastion) tactic even more funny. LOL!!!

 jy2 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yes, Hive Crones have just catapulted to one of the best units in the book.

I don't see that.

They are ok, but they aren't great anymore.

The unit that benefits the most is the shooty FMC - our dakka flyrants. Crones aren't really shooty. Their best asset was in their vector-strikes, which has been greatly nerfed.

However, what I do like about them are their ability to put the hurt on kabalite warriors in venoms. If it f*cks with DE, then I'm all for it.

Ok is pretty much the best we've got outside of Flyrants, Venomthropes and Skyblight Gargoyles.
The use I see for them is going around firing Tentaclids and drooling on things, then at the end of the game gliding down to score objectives, the changes to grounding tests have made them pretty durable and their Haywire shots are going to be badly needed when vehiclehammer comes back with a vengeance.

You know what's funny?

Buildings that are claimed are now scoring.


That makes my venom-in-a-box (bastion) tactic even more funny. LOL!!!

That IS funny, in a tragic sort of way.

 TychoTerziev wrote:

I foolishly bought two Tyranid flyer kits before the new edition was out and now I am not sure what to build out of them. Are two Hive Crones still worth taking in a meta with few flyers? Vector Strike seems to be terribly nerfed.

Flyers will still be prevalent. Flying vehicles have actually gotten much better so you will probably see more people actually running them. That means hive crones are still necessary. The VS have been nerfed against ground units but are still effective against air units.

Just saw that poison changed and now you need a higher STR to get rerolls rather than equal?

The question is, is skyblight STILL the strongest build??

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
The question is, is skyblight STILL the strongest build??

Yes, by far.

It's quite TAC in it's range of abilities and units.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
The question is, is skyblight STILL the strongest build??

IMO, yes, they still are.

There are still some very powerful tools that are needed in 7th Ed. and Skyblight gives you that:

1. Objectives Secured (OS) scoring. Not many units can contest now. You NEED units with OS (or rather, they provide you with an incredible advantage).

2. Mobile scoring/contesting. Our flyers can't contest anymore. Tradition ground troops are very slow. You NEED mobile scoring/contesting. With gargoyles, you can practically deepstrike them onto objectives.

3. Recycled troops. Now what's better than OS troops with good mobility? OS troops with good mobility who keeps on coming back. It's the gargoyles that will make skyblight still very good nowadays.

Zoans are going to be priceless for us as a cheap way of upping our total Mastery Level, what are people's thoughts about squad sizes, run them all singles units of 2....?

rigeld2 wrote:
Just saw that poison changed and now you need a higher STR to get rerolls rather than equal?

Not as big a loss for our bugs as it will be for Nurgle armies. I'm not sweating it.





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Eldercaveman wrote:
Zoans are going to be priceless for us as a cheap way of upping our total Mastery Level, what are people's thoughts about squad sizes, run them all singles units of 2....?

I'd still run them in units of 1. Why pay 100-150pts for Mastery Level 2 when it only costs you 50-pts? Besides, the minute they peep their head out to shoot at any enemy, they are toast. And now that they are scoring, hiding them in a support role makes them even better.

Will the gargoyles get objective secured even if you build an unbound list?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Will the gargoyles get objective secured even if you build an unbound list?

Yes, they have their own set of rules that will override the BRB (basic rulebook). Keep in mind that the specific always override the more general. The BRB have the general rules. The skyblight formation has a much more specific rule, no matter if you are running Bound or Unbound.

If I didn't have to pay the harpy tax then I'd be really interested, But as it is, I don't think it's for me. Please take a look at my list jy2? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/596697.page

I actually have found the Harpy is a lot better than people give it credit for.

I think 3 units of 1 Zoans and 2 units of 1 Venoms will be my staple elite slot from now on, we tend to play 2k+ plus where I am, so plenty of points to throw in else where.

See, I'm aiming off for 1500 point tournaments which is my standard...

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
If I didn't have to pay the harpy tax then I'd be really interested, But as it is, I don't think it's for me. Please take a look at my list jy2? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/596697.page

It's a cheap FMC that can be used to draw enemy fire.

I don't have my codex with me right now so can't verify, but harpies can drop off spore mines. Since everything is scoring right now, that could potentially be more free scoring units. Can someone please help verify the rules for the spore mines in the codex? Thanks.

It's a scary world out there now, with summoning lists and Imperial Knights, and d strength. To combat this, I'm trying out:

1850pts
Flyrant w/Devs
Flyrant w/Devs

16 Termagant
15 Termagant

Hive Crone

Biovore Brood (2)

Hierophant w/Bioplasma Torrent

The Venomthrope embarked version is definitely tougher and may end up more competitive, but this one packs an "alpha" thats very alarming with the 12 inch movement + hellstorm template. It takes a ton of S10 Ap1/2 shots to bring him down. And potentially launching spore mines to claim objectives from across the board sounds comical.

 jy2 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
If I didn't have to pay the harpy tax then I'd be really interested, But as it is, I don't think it's for me. Please take a look at my list jy2? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/596697.page

It's a cheap FMC that can be used to draw enemy fire.

I don't have my codex with me right now so can't verify, but harpies can drop off spore mines. Since everything is scoring right now, that could potentially be more free scoring units. Can someone please help verify the rules for the spore mines in the codex? Thanks.

"living bomb: spore mine clusters are non-scoring, non-denial units. ..."

 Iechine wrote:
It's a scary world out there now, with summoning lists and Imperial Knights, and d strength. To combat this, I'm trying out:

1850pts
Flyrant w/Devs
Flyrant w/Devs

16 Termagant
15 Termagant

Hive Crone

Biovore Brood (2)

Hierophant w/Bioplasma Torrent

The Venomthrope embarked version is definitely tougher and may end up more competitive, but this one packs an "alpha" thats very alarming with the 12 inch movement + hellstorm template. It takes a ton of S10 Ap1/2 shots to bring him down. And potentially launching spore mines to claim objectives from across the board sounds comical.

Unfortunately, you've got no backfield synapse for your troops.

I'd drop 1 biovore for 1 zoanthrope. This also gives you the advantage of +2 psychic levels and a scoring synapse.

Then drop a few gants for Electrogrubs on your flyrants.





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 tetrisphreak wrote:

"living bomb: spore mine clusters are non-scoring, non-denial units. ..."

Ok, thanks!

 jy2 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
It's a scary world out there now, with summoning lists and Imperial Knights, and d strength. To combat this, I'm trying out:

1850pts
Flyrant w/Devs
Flyrant w/Devs

16 Termagant
15 Termagant

Hive Crone

Biovore Brood (2)

Hierophant w/Bioplasma Torrent

The Venomthrope embarked version is definitely tougher and may end up more competitive, but this one packs an "alpha" thats very alarming with the 12 inch movement + hellstorm template. It takes a ton of S10 Ap1/2 shots to bring him down. And potentially launching spore mines to claim objectives from across the board sounds comical.

Unfortunately, you've got no backfield synapse for your troops.

I'd drop 1 biovore for 1 zoanthrope. This also gives you the advantage of +2 psychic levels and a scoring synapse.

Then drop a few gants for Electrogrubs on your flyrants.

Do you agree the Bioplasma is more competitive than the embarked venomthrope?

And for rules clarification...if my Flyrants jink while within 6 inchs of the Hierophant do they have a 2+ save at that point?

Surely you'd agree Heirophants are a massive over costed waste of space? The model is gorgeous, but damn is expensive when a Imperial knight at half the price can annihilate it in combat?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Surely you'd agree Heirophants are a massive over costed waste of space? The model is gorgeous, but damn is expensive when a Imperial knight at half the price can annihilate it in combat?

16-32 s10 shots can certainly hinder the knight getting to the hierophant.

That said, a swooping harridan is a far better counter punch to knight titans.

 Iechine wrote:

Do you agree the Bioplasma is more competitive than the embarked venomthrope?

And for rules clarification...if my Flyrants jink while within 6 inchs of the Hierophant do they have a 2+ save at that point?

I don't look at it as more or less competitive. It's more like, what do you want your army to do? Do you want a more defensive army or a more offensive one?

But my opinion is that force-multiplication is always better than pure offense (as long as the support units aren't overdone). The venom on the hierophant is a force-multiplier. It is more useful to the army on the whole than just any 1 gun. However, keep in mind that there is a weakness. As the gargantuan counts as open-topped, you can potentially kill the venomthrope just by flaming the GMC.

Yes, he will have 2+ cover by jinking within range of the hierophant (with a venom embarked).




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 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Surely you'd agree Heirophants are a massive over costed waste of space? The model is gorgeous, but damn is expensive when a Imperial knight at half the price can annihilate it in combat?

No it's not. It is actually quite good, especially now that D-weapons have been nerfed. It'll easily dismantle a IK in combat, thanks mainly to the fact that it has Lash Whips and will be striking first. He lives to kill off units like that. What he doesn't want to do is to get into combat with a unit of 30 termagants or 30 zombies.





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 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Surely you'd agree Heirophants are a massive over costed waste of space? The model is gorgeous, but damn is expensive when a Imperial knight at half the price can annihilate it in combat?

16-32 s10 shots can certainly hinder the knight getting to the hierophant.

That said, a swooping harridan is a far better counter punch to knight titans.

I actually played against the Harridan with my daemons. While he is good, he isn't the be-all-end-all of Tyranid units. I basically ignored him all game and he never made his points back. Yes, he was basically shooting all game, but with 4+ cover or better saves from daemons, he wasn't really doing all that much damage, even against my 3 soulgrinders.

Now that I think about it, we went to Turn 7. That means my army survived 84 S10 shots. Wow!

Where are the latest rules for the hierophant?

Hierophant is in the new Apoc book.

His upgrades can be found in the new Imperial Armour Apoc book.

Yes, the hierophant and his upgrades are in 2 different books.