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Don't they do the exact same thing as a bolter within twelve inches? Is the only difference (other than 12 inch range) really just that they can assault in the next turn? (My army is almost exclusively shooty)

there is none dont take them. in fact dont take scouts at all.

well, sniper rifles seem kinda cool.

Shotgun is an Assault 2 weapon, so if you need to you can do something like flank, shoot and assault your target... I tend to bring a fair number of shotguns if I use my lads to run a flank...

Snipers seem like a much better option.

well give em a try. I'm a big fan of learning by doing. I can only tell you that in all the time I've been playing this game I've never felt like a squad of scouts, sniper rifles or no, were any kind of threat that I needed to deal with. I've always ignored them unless they were sitting on an objective.... and its never hurt me.

Take 1 bolter, 1 BP/CCW, 1 shotgun, 1 sniper, and sarg; with the other half of the squad also being one of each weapon, and the heavy bolter.

With 5 unique gear sets, each models rolls saves individually. This means that if you take 7 wounds, two of the models each roll 2 saves. This could mean that with 4 failed saves, you lose 2 models instead of 4.

Scout weapons suck IMO, it's all about the sarg and the hellfire rounds. Everyone else is just a meat shield.
It's why marines recruit so much.

-Matt

scout shotguns are best used when they're hanging out in a big swathe of rough terrain. Their ability to move faster through such obstacles means that they can keep within their charging range, but still stay out of the charging range of other units...

Then what happens is your opponent stands there and rapid fire's their face in...

Shotguns really aren't that useful... If you want scouts to be shooty, then you want them to have guns that can shoot further than assault range... and you also probably want them as far away from combat as possible... like.. on an objective in some corner of the map with camo cloaks and sniper rifles and a rocket launcher that makes them a threat to light tanks...

From what i've seen at least, they are best as objective campers, but are also okay as a relatively cheap, mediocre close combat speed bump

GalacticDefender wrote:Don't they do the exact same thing as a bolter within twelve inches? Is the only difference (other than 12 inch range) really just that they can assault in the next turn? (My army is almost exclusively shooty)

Shotguns and Boltguns do not do the exact same thing within 12".

The point of shotguns is the very thing you state in the second sentence (apart from the "next" bit).
There is of course also a difference in AP. In essence you buy mobility/assault capacity with AP.

You will have to make up your mind about the worth within the context of your army yourself.


Blankets statements such as; "They are never worth it" can safely be ignored. It is their place within YOUR army that determines the worth.

I like having a couple of shotguns in an otherwise CC-focused scout squad, to soften the enemy up before the charge. This is particularly valuable if they'll be going before you or simultaneously in CC. Every model you kill before you charge in is one less set of attacks against you.

hmm. I hate bolter scouts. Why use them?
CC squads kill everything in CC, shotguns soften everything before CC, snipers are the ranged, objective-holding ones- bolters are an uncomfatorble mix. They're pointless infiltrating, as the shotguns and CC can do it better, they're useless scout moving, cos' then they're 12" range, and they're useless outflanking- they get 10 BS3 bolter shots, then die. Shotgunners can do that and assault, and CCs can assault too.

Shotgun scouts are brill when you have a ten man squad: Five with bolt pistols and ccw's and five with shotguns. Its all about getting the balance right between how much damage you do before assault, and during assault.

-Alexgm101

alexgm101 wrote:Shotgun scouts are brill when you have a ten man squad: Five with bolt pistols and ccw's and five with shotguns. Its all about getting the balance right between how much damage you do before assault, and during assault.

-Alexgm101

This for sure. Specially against bad armor save types like Orks/DE/gaunts. You hammer them with the shotguns first, and then charge in there. Sure you wont ALWAYS get that nice set up, but it does happen, and its the smart thing to do. I agree that bolters in a scout squad is just not a smart move, they arnt flexible enough

I see no use to arming an entire squad of scouts with shotguns. Since they hit on 4s anyways, it seems better to just assault with CCW+ BP where they won't get a cover save.

The only place I've found it useful to put a shotgun is on a a SGT with a pfist. You're not getting a bonus attack anyways so its better than the pistol.

A good tactic is to stic 'em in a Land Speeder Storm with a multi-melta equip them for CC and give the sarge either Melta bombs or a PFist
Then on the scout move go as far towards a threatening enemy tank as possible then on your turn scouts jump out and assault while the LSS shoots another tank with it's Multi-melta.

purplefood wrote:A good tactic is to stic 'em in a Land Speeder Storm with a multi-melta equip them for CC and give the sarge either Melta bombs or a PFist
Then on the scout move go as far towards a threatening enemy tank as possible then on your turn scouts jump out and assault while the LSS shoots another tank with it's Multi-melta.

How does that relate to scouts with shotguns?

Sure the LSS is a good combo with any close range Scout squad, but this thread is specifically about debating shotguns vs other scout weaponry. Lets keep this on topic.

Dracos wrote:

purplefood wrote:A good tactic is to stic 'em in a Land Speeder Storm with a multi-melta equip them for CC and give the sarge either Melta bombs or a PFist
Then on the scout move go as far towards a threatening enemy tank as possible then on your turn scouts jump out and assault while the LSS shoots another tank with it's Multi-melta.

How does that relate to scouts with shotguns?

Sure the LSS is a good combo with any close range Scout squad, but this thread is specifically about debating shotguns vs other scout weaponry. Lets keep this on topic.

They can have shotguns if you want the same tactic can be used to tie up or kill guard command squads or heavy weapon teams inflicting some casualties before you charge might be a good idea in that case also as you said if the sarge isn't getting the bonus attack anyway he may as well have it.

shrike wrote:hmm. I hate bolter scouts. Why use them?
CC squads kill everything in CC, shotguns soften everything before CC, snipers are the ranged, objective-holding ones- bolters are an uncomfatorble mix. They're pointless infiltrating, as the shotguns and CC can do it better, they're useless scout moving, cos' then they're 12" range, and they're useless outflanking- they get 10 BS3 bolter shots, then die. Shotgunners can do that and assault, and CCs can assault too.

I make good use out of bolter scouts. When they infiltrate, they have the area they go into covered by a 24 inch area of bolter fire early, and have the H/bolter too. Against meq armies they don't usually do all that much, killing 1 or 2 models a turn (which isn't too bad really) but against Geqs they do very well. I don't care to put scouts into assault all that often, since they suck at it (like all vanilla SM troop choices) so the CC and shotgun options aren't for me. The sniper option also isn't for me since they can't move and shoot, which makes them not so great at the midfield role where having to move at least once with close enemies is possible. My configuration: 1 H/B 3 scouts with bolters, sarge with CCW/BP (he has almost same number of attacks of the rest of the squad, IMHO worth giving up 1 bolter shot). Sometimes I give them beacons for some midfield reinforcement/gateway hopping. As for the whole can't fire bolters and assault thing, they have bolt pistols if they feel like they must assault.

The shotguns are there cause they look cool, thats about it.

I take a squad of 10 scouts in any battle 1500pts or more. They all have snipers (except the heavy bolter and sergeant) and sit in a rhino. I outflank them and set them on any single shooting squads (devs, havocs, lootas. etc. etc.). It actually works, and its a bonus if they happen to land upon an objective. shotguns are a big waste. I used them once, never again

dignifiedsausage wrote:I take a squad of 10 scouts in any battle 1500pts or more. They all have snipers (except the heavy bolter and sergeant) and sit in a rhino. I outflank them and set them on any single shooting squads (devs, havocs, lootas. etc. etc.). It actually works, and its a bonus if they happen to land upon an objective. shotguns are a big waste. I used them once, never again

Well of course they would be waste in how you use scouts. Your a long range scout user, and shotguns are close range. The same argument can go with, sniper rifles suck because I like getting them into CC, they are just a waste.


Short range, CC builds, shotguns are a smart choice

Not really

CC wise you'll be better off with BP/CCW sans a fist sergeant with either combi or shotgun. The 2 CCW bonus makes up for the lost S4 shot since scouts are S4 and the AP5 of a pistol can at least make picking off things with low armor well except a few units like wyches

notabot187 wrote:I don't care to put scouts into assault all that often, since they suck at it (like all vanilla SM troop choices) so the CC and shotgun options aren't for me.

But scouts, with the exception of Telion, also suck at shooting.

I find the best use is to convert them and use them as Imperial Guard vets. Easiest way to get shotguns

starsdawn wrote:

notabot187 wrote:I don't care to put scouts into assault all that often, since they suck at it (like all vanilla SM troop choices) so the CC and shotgun options aren't for me.

But scouts, with the exception of Telion, also suck at shooting.

Sure, BS 3 is a bit of as drag for people used to hitting with BS 4... But honestly it isn't that big a deal (uless you missile launch with krak, or shoot solid HB). It is just bolter fire (which you should never take a squad just for). The main purpose of a small shooting scout squad is the HB blast. The difference between BS 3 and 4 when you are talking about a small poisoned blast is not a big deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dignifiedsausage wrote:I take a squad of 10 scouts in any battle 1500pts or more. They all have snipers (except the heavy bolter and sergeant) and sit in a rhino. I outflank them and set them on any single shooting squads (devs, havocs, lootas. etc. etc.). It actually works, and its a bonus if they happen to land upon an objective. shotguns are a big waste. I used them once, never again

What I want to know is how you start scouts in a rhino they can't purchase off the board and outflank them. Why give them snipers when you only have 2 fire points (even if you could give them a rhino)? If you outflank why equip entire squad with a heavy weapon that can't fire and move? So many things wrong with this I don't even know if you are playing the game right.

I really don't think we need another topic on this. There is already one locked on the first page for being redundant.

Please guys, have a look for a similar topic before posting. We don't need 3 topics about what weapons are good on scouts.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330346.page

Lets keep this conversation going in there.

Agreed!