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I have put out a fair amount of critique/advice over the past months but this is my first list of my own. It's a midrange army using the C:SM codex as a counts as Dark Angels army. Using Pedro as a counts as for the Chapter Master of a successor chapter. I am somewhat constrained on available models, but want some feedback on the direction I should take it.


HQ

Librarian - Force Weapon, Bolt Pistol, The Avenger, Null Zone - 100
Grand Master Ruavel (Counts As Pedro Cantor) - 175

Elites
9x Sternguard with 1xHeavy Flamer, 5x Combi Melta - 260
With Librarian in Rhino -35

9xSternguard with 5x Combi-Melta, 2xCombi-Plasma - 260
With Ruavel in Rhino -35

Troops
10xTactical Squad with Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Fist and Missilie Launcher -205
in Rhino -35

10xTactical Squad with Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Fist and Missilie Launcher -205
in Razorback with Twin-Linked Lascannons -75

Fast Attack
Landspeeder Tornado w/Multi-Melta & Assault Cannon -100

Landspeeder Tornado w/Multi-Melta & Assault Cannon -100

Landspeeder Tornado w/Multi-Melta & Assault Cannon -100

Heavy Support
Predator with Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons -85

Vindicator - 115

Vindicator - 115


It has great midrange firepower, but not a lot of long range. I really dislike the Razorback in this list, and I know the Landspeeders are less then optimal, but that's what happens when you played Dark Angels in the past. I still think they bring lots of fire power to the table and represent a real threat to most armor or heavy infantry. Anyway, I have been considering dropping one of them and taking the Rback down to a normal Rhino and putting in a 5 man Sternguard with 2 Missile Launchers as an objective holder (25 points more then a Dev Squad, but is scoring because of Kantor and in the Elite slot).
Any C&C? It seems I will do alright in the mid range game, but might be easily mopped up with Gunlines or heavily assault based armies.

........I like it.

The fire base is strong, your target saturation is good, and you have a great mix of anti-tank at range and close up with good scoring capabilities and solid anti-infantry. You are also quite mobile.

I'm not a fan of the lone Razorback Tactical Squad to be honest, and I think those units could do with a Meltagun each, but those are my only real nitpicks.

Thanks for the feedback.

I could drop the Razor to add the 2 melta guns, and fill out the combi's for the sterns and dozer blades for the Vindi's. My big issue now is having the actual melta guns/combi-meltas for them all. I think I only have 5 melta guns and 1 combi-melta... lol

I hate WYSIWG sometimes.

You could always do "counts as" example "What! Those are combi-meltas, they're just a variant!"

lol, yeah, that or get good with Green Stuff in a hurry.

Seriously, does anyone know a place you can reliably buy Combi's? Seems like they are not exactly a supported bit.

That would probably be better if you can get the pieces. Just my thoughts.

Your Tactical squads are listed wrong. Adding a combi-weapon and powerfist brings it up to 240pts.

Also either run your speeders as Heavy bolter/Assault cannon, or MM/Heavy flamer. This is a bit cheaper and better.

Drop your tac squad razor to a rhino and bringing down the speeders should be enough points to get those powerfists and combi weapons

No, I simply have the price of my vehicle listed seperately


Squad 170points
Flamer Free
ML Free
Combi+Fist 35
=205


Unfortunately, all of my speeders have assault cannons (they are Ravenwing) and I don't much like the Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter Configuration compared to having a Multi Melta with a 24 in threat range for 10 extra points. So those are likely to stay that configuration for the time being.

Glad to see you took my suggestions a lil bit. I would advise filling your sterns with h flamers as much as you can. I realize you are limited by wysiwyg, but as far as what you are aiming for... I would make the flamers your next pick up after the melta's.
Also, I believe chapter house studios has some cheapish combi melta bits you can get. http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=82&category_id=24

Looks pretty solid. I'd drop the Razorback to a Rhino otherwise that element doesn't really seem to fit the rest of the army. If you do want to keep it give it a better weapon, twin-linked lascannon is a poor choice. Assault cannon can pop armour better and take down hordes and MCs, whilst the las-plas can take on armour and heavy infantry and is more survivable.

I'd go duel melta in the tac squads as you're low on AT.

I'd swap the combi-plasmas for combiflamers and chuck them into the HF squad. In the current cover save happy meta of 5th Ed plasmas have been largely nuetered.

I also tend to find either the Typhoon or the MM/HF optins to be more point efficient than you combo for the landspeeders. Your config is too expensive to be used as a suicide unit but too short ranged to not be...

That should give you 95-185 points to spend on more dakka. Perhaps a 3rd smaller SG squad? Or upgrading the Pred to a hybrid.

FlingitNow wrote:Looks pretty solid. I'd drop the Razorback to a Rhino otherwise that element doesn't really seem to fit the rest of the army. If you do want to keep it give it a better weapon, twin-linked lascannon is a poor choice. Assault cannon can pop armour better and take down hordes and MCs, whilst the las-plas can take on armour and heavy infantry and is more survivable.

Absolutely agree, that is simply how it is modeled (DA Razorbacks could only be TL HB or TLLC). I would rather it be a Rhino.

FlingitNow wrote:I'd go duel melta in the tac squads as you're low on AT.

I wouldn't exactly call it low on AT. 10 Combi-Melta, 3 Multi-Melta and 2 Demolisher Cannons. But yeah, I can likely do with more melta guns.

FlingitNow wrote:I'd swap the combi-plasmas for combiflamers and chuck them into the HF squad. In the current cover save happy meta of 5th Ed plasmas have been largely nuetered.

Yes and no. On one hand, cover saves are common, this is true. However, FNP is now rampant and I like having some plasma to deal with them when needed. Hence just a couple of Combi-Plasma. I will likely fill up both squads with combi's using the points from the Rback.

FlingitNow wrote:I also tend to find either the Typhoon or the MM/HF optins to be more point efficient than you combo for the landspeeders. Your config is too expensive to be used as a suicide unit but too short ranged to not be...

I agree it is a better config, and even mentioned it in my original post and again in response to steve. But right now I am stuck with Assault Cannons. I love assault cannons, I just don't like paying so damn much for them. It is really a question of Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer and Multi-Melta for the passenger weapon, and as such I have chosen to go with the Multi-Melta, as it is among the scariest weapons in the game to have on fast vehicles. These are likely to be the first things I change/upgrade however.

FlingitNow wrote:That should give you 95-185 points to spend on more dakka. Perhaps a 3rd smaller SG squad? Or upgrading the Pred to a hybrid.

I would definitely like a third SG squad, even if its small. But I don't really have much space for it, and I don't have a vehicle for it at all (nor the models really, I like to use DA Vets for them and I don't have enough to go up above 20).

I think the consensus is definitely to swap out my landspeeder armament to HF/MM (which I completely agree with). And possibly use enough points to get a third SG squad. What do people think about dropping the pred for a third Vindi? I might miss the Autocannon shots, but at the same time, Demolisher Cannons are pretty much the best weapon in the C:SM army list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dok wrote:Glad to see you took my suggestions a lil bit. I would advise filling your sterns with h flamers as much as you can. I realize you are limited by wysiwyg, but as far as what you are aiming for... I would make the flamers your next pick up after the melta's.
Also, I believe chapter house studios has some cheapish combi melta bits you can get. http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=82&category_id=24

Pretty Awesome, but also pretty expensive. Might be something I look at down the road, after these terrible holidays are over and I pay Mike back some scrilla I owe him. Good looking out though.

And yes, I think talking over some tactica with you when we were rolling down to Brea helped, as did playing in the tourney. I realized I hated being in CC against just about everything, even with hammernators, so I am going towards a more shoot first/balanced approach with no DS. Might work, might now, I dunno.

I wouldn't exactly call it low on AT. 10 Combi-Melta, 3 Multi-Melta and 2 Demolisher Cannons. But yeah, I can likely do with more melta guns.

I wouldn't use demolisher cannons for AT. The multimeltas and combi-meltas are all 1 shot though. That is what I meant. You have little AT that is likely to be able to fire late game and no AT that will be in range in the early game. Having Melta in the tac squads could help reduce the first issue.

What do people think about dropping the pred for a third Vindi? I might miss the Autocannon shots, but at the same time, Demolisher Cannons are pretty much the best weapon in the C:SM army list.

I wouldn't do it. The demolisher cannon is awesome but you've plenty of high AP short ranged firepower throughout the list. You need more long ranged firepower and (as mentioned above) preferably some long ranged AT.

If you are unsure about the some of the units, them take them out. I would consider switching out 1 of the land speeders and a razorback for possibly another vindicator or some other unit with more LR fire if thats what your lacking

I wouldn't really say I am "unsure" about many units. Either I know they are somewhat sub-optimal, in the case of the landspeeders, or am looking for ways to refine the list in the future, like for instance picking up a third Vindicator to replace the lone Pred.
I think I am unlikely to do that, however, having the Autocannon to try to take out a transport early is pretty nice to have and the 30 points can likely be used somewhere else more effectively.

I would like to fill that last slot in my elites, likely with more sternguard, but does anyone else have any suggestions on it?
I could likely wiggle out about 150-160 points to use. I don't know if I can salvage my long range firepower at this point no matter what I did, so something to lent itself to the close/medium range game would likely be better. Perhaps a Podnought?

If you switch the LSs to typhoons and free up 5 points you can switch the pred to LC sponsons and that would up your long range firepower quite a bit. But it would put it on not the most survivable of platforms.

I think I have decided on a Rifleman Dread to shore up my Long Range firepower a bit, hopefully popping transports before my sternguard and Vindicators get in range.

The final list I am aiming for will look something like this:

Librarian w/9 Sternguard w/2xH.Flamers and 4xCombi Melta in Rhino
Pedro Cantor w/9 Sternguard w/2xH.Flamers and 4xCombi Melta in Rhino
2x 10 Tactical Squads w/Melta Gun, Combi-Melta, Power Fist and Missile Launcher in Rhinos

3xMM/HF Landspeeders
2xVindicator
1xPredator w/Autocannon + HB Sponsons
1x Dreadnought w/2xTwin-Linked Autocannon

With any extra points, more combi's or Dozer Blades on the Vindicators.
I am also thinking about adding a single Power Weapon to the Sternguard with Cantor, to take advantage of the +1A aura (and the Vets 2 base attacks). Making that squad a credible threat in CC (enough that charging it won't always be appetizing). Anyone have any feedback on that idea?

Thanks for all the suggestions, btw. I appreciate the feedback.