Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all,

I'm throwing around the idea of picking up ogres this Christmas season. They seem to have got quite the boost with 8th ed. Attacks in 2 ranks, 3 wide ranks, the ability to take slaughtermasters (without taking scragg): it's all gold.

The one unit I can't figure out is maneaters. I love the idea of battle-hardened ogres that are essentially mini-bruisers. Porblem is I can't see them being worth the points. With any kind of kit you might as well just be taking ironguts, and at a 2-to-1 price these guys seem like a waste.

I know there's some gold in here somewhere, even if it's just about taking a solo maneater for flank protection and drawing out charges. If anyone has tips on how to use these brutes (or any advice for a new ogre player in general) please share!

Thanks!

Too expensive imo. Just take 2 gorgers for your rares and maybe a slavegiant if you really want giantbreaker. I mean yes though they are kinda scary but you'll have to devote quite a bit of points to them. Rather get more bulls

My list already has a gorger, and I've always kinda looked down on slavegiants (ironic, no?). The savings isn't enough to make up for the loss of stubborn, and I've never really wanted giantbreaker to begin with. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see it as efficient.

Maybe I should just get another gorger. Would it help if I posted my list?

Toss the list over in the Army List section if you haven't, I always enjoy seeing the Ogres show up!

Unit of 2 man eaters, both with longswords.
Deploy them 1 wide and 2 deep.
You get 7 S5 armor piercing attacks, WS5 and Init 4. (and a S5 stomp).
These guys fill the critical roll of being stubborn.

Yes, you could get 5 bulls for the same cost.
But when combat goes poorly, it's really nice to have a stubborn unit.

When you combo charge these in with other units, their narrow frontage means that you're likely to only take on 2-4 enemy models, and they will have a very tough time killing off the maneaters.

So no matter how combat ends, you'll very likely to have a stubborn unit to hold the enemy in place, should you break.

The "ogre torpedo", is also good at assassinating wizards in units that are init 4 or worse. You can throw them in and with the high init and good strength, have a very good shot at assassinating the enemy wizard. Because you are deep instead of wide, you can dump all the attacks on a model, even if he's in the corner of a unit.


What I found is while the 3rd man eater gives you the bull charge, the extra cost isn't worth it. Man Eaters are too expensive to take in mid sized units, and the 3rd man eater just gets in the way of a cheaper Iron gut doing the same thing.


Maneater = Wiff insurance.
I wouldn't count on the stubborn spell either, my opponent seems to always dispel it when I need it most.

Hopefully, the new ogre list will bring maneaters down to the ~60 point range. They just aren't 42 points better than an irongut.

I'd say, take gorgers, but 2 maneaters, or two units of 2, do work. They aren't the best, but they do the holding role well enough that you can overlook the over-cost.

-Matt

I can see the point about assassinating wizards with them. Pinning a unit down with them would help for a turn as it gives you time to turn around and give em another thumping

I know you need the small frontage for that too work, but its SO HARD not to just get another 4 ironguts for the approximately the same points. I guess both need testing...


I'll throw the list into the army lists section in a second, just taking out leadbelchers because apparently they have a tendency to blow themselves up.

I just saw the other night a guy run 4 maneaters with dual handguns. I don't know anything about ogres and what that unit cost him, but I appreciated his ogre gunline theme. He had 3-4 units of leadbelchers along with those maneaters and was planning on painting them with an empire theme.

As fluffy as that sounds, that unit was at least 350 points. for 8 handgun shots a turn I don't know if that's entirely worth it, even with stubborn and ItP.

Has anyone tried using single maneaters? Give one handguns and either a GW or CLS to taste and lurk the flanks. If you keep it in the way it's enough to stop fast cav from flanking your main units. Could/would it work?

I'm guessing the usual response of "what a maneater does, 3 bulls do better".

3 Manhunters isn't a bad unit, but since Ogres don't *need* MSU anymore they're somewhat meh. However I'll still advocate 3 of them as a flanking unit, but in all honesty if you want stubborn crown of command on a tyrant should work just fine.

It's not so much that bulls do it better, they just do it cheaper.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Maneater = Wiff insurance.

I keep reading that as "Maneater = Wife insurance."

What exactly do these wife insuring, maneating ogres do? Apart from eating men, I mean.

I think the idea is that if you lose combat and your bulls/ironguts run for it the maneaters being stubborn will prevent you from getting overrun and losing the whole unit.

Problem is then you lose the maneaters next turn...




.....also I now c wut you did thar....took a second.

derp.

But I mean, ok they have a bit higher WS, +1 Str W I A, which is pretty cool, and stubborn (and armor piercing?). It is pretty hard though to see how that is worth ~5 bulls though, but then since variety seems to be exactly what most Ogre armies lack, the fact they are not 5 more bulls might be worth the price

Wehrkind wrote:But I mean, ok they have a bit higher WS, +1 Str W I A, which is pretty cool, and stubborn (and armor piercing?). It is pretty hard though to see how that is worth ~5 bulls though, but then since variety seems to be exactly what most Ogre armies lack, the fact they are not 5 more bulls might be worth the price

Since 3 man eater costs ~the same as 6 Iron guts.

You get 12 S5 armor piercing, 15 S5 +shooting, or 12 S7. Along with 3 S5 impact hits, and S5 stomps.

Iron Guts show up with 18 S6 attacks, 3 S5 impact hits, and S4 stomps; along with a rank, and twice as many wounds, a standard, and magic banners.

Really, the only place man eaters are likely* better is when you're losing combat, and that is when stubborn comes into play.
Any other combination is better served with Iron Guts.


*point given, against small units, the higher init of maneaters will let them wipe a unit before they swing. But, how many small (8 man or less) units do you typically see on the table?


-Matt

Other day I found myself doing my usual ogre routine, of trying to figure out if any of the various overcosted units are doable, even if 'just for fun.' So I got totally excited by the idea of 5 maneaters with cls & ha, and prepared to go find some really cool ogre-sized models and throw caution to the wind!

And then I realized what I had already told myself: that 5 maneaters w/ cls + ha cost the same as 12 bulls w/ crusher + bellower. In 8th, I don't think the comparison holds up one bit, other than requiring 7 less models

Ironically I'd find solo maneaters really useful ... if they weren't ItP and so could flee and act as something like the cheap utility troop that ogres lack. Not counting hunterless sabres (which are great for this but require a hunter, and him releasing them), or fighters, which bicker and M4 and other things preclude in my mind.

- Salvage

Another funny combo I saw was a single maneater with a great weapon, joined by a unhittable tyrant. Tyrant go alone in front.

Voila, one tar pit you'll never forget.

That combo sounds nice...if you aren't facing cannon or anything that shoots in a line. They'd mince the tyrant if he didn't have a ward save.

So it seems that maneaters are good for a laugh and some beardy tactics now and again.....but on the whole they pale to bulls and ironguts due to their high point cost.

Oh well....

I think you've got it Dutch. But, if you can find a like minded opponent, you can both field some sub-optimal options to try some things out that you might not ordinarily see...

RZ

HawaiiMatt wrote:Unit of 2 man eaters, both with longswords.
Deploy them 1 wide and 2 deep.

I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to fantasy (have an army, have the rules, haven't yet played a game ) but can you actually do that? I thought you HAD to fill up the first rank (for ogres 3 models) before you started forming the next rank?

Nope, you just don't get the rank bonus (which doesn't matter when you only have 2 models)

Another thing that really kills maneaters is that the thing the pay a premium for (stubborn) can be given to any unit with a cheap enchanted item...

MEs are just too expensive and fragile.


if they had 4 wounds prehaps, but right now the are just Bulls that more then double their cost for a pip in WS, BS, and Str.