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I'm getting excessively tired of this ridiculous codex, I started 12 years ago with Space Wolves and frankly I have no idea whats become of the sons of Fenris. That book is so rife with hypocrisy and absurdity that I want to pull my face off every time I face a Space Wolf player. For some reason this only happens when i play Space Wolves or Mephiston, no other army frustrates and infuriates me as much as the Space Wolves, their rules are a slap in the face to the game, and their various backstories are a slap in the face to the fluff. So come one, come all, rally to my banner or against it I challenge you.

What bothers you about Mephiston? His rules or fluff?

I rally behind you..

Look at this direct quote form the codex, sigh..

"Leman Russ is soo mighty (x2) that he can drink and ocean of ale and blow up a chaos titan with a casual stare! Once he picked up a mountain said "watch dis lads.." and threw it at a eldar starship! It exploded naturally, but whats more, it wasn't even in orbit! it was in the web way at the time.. Where am I.."

Bjorn the Fell Handed; Recalling with difficulty the Saga of Russ.

I tried to like the space wolves really, but they are Mary Sue furfags of the greatess level bs!

Which is probably why they are so popular...

Mephiston is a joke stat wise.. but otherwise I have no problem with him.

What I as a Black Templars player dislike about Meph's fluff is that Grimaldus also got a building collapsed on top of him and clawed his way out, and what does he get? A nifty special rule. Sure, it's not bad, but compared to the monster that is Mephiston...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:What I as a Black Templars player dislike about Meph's fluff is that Grimaldus also got a building collapsed on top of him and clawed his way out, and what does he get? A nifty special rule. Sure, it's not bad, but compared to the monster that is Mephiston...

Was Grimaldus incessantly tortured by the unspeakable horrors of Black Rage while being buried in rubble for many days? Then ultimately become the only known survivor to avoid sucumbing to the insanity and rise again even stronger than before. I think that warrants a special stat line

Shaman wrote:I rally behind you..

Look at this direct quote form the codex, sigh..

"Leman Russ is soo mighty (x2) that he can drink and ocean of ale and blow up a chaos titan with a casual stare! Once he picked up a mountain said "watch dis lads.." and threw it at a eldar starship! It exploded naturally, but whats more, it wasn't even in orbit! it was in the web way at the time.. Where am I.."

Bjorn the Fell Handed; Recalling with difficulty the Saga of Russ.

I tried to like the space wolves really, but they are Mary Sue furfags of the greatess level bs!

Which is probably why they are so popular...

Mephiston is a joke stat wise.. but otherwise I have no problem with him.

So basically the SW has stolen the crown from the Ultramarines?

Ruleswise the Space Wolves Codex is flawed in that it's not flawed. Every other army has a weakness of some sort, be it close combat (Tau, IG), price (BA, GK), Range (Orks, Tyranids) or something, but the Space Wolves can do everything, too well.

Fluff wise, I have very little problem with the Space Wolves. In fact the reason I loved them in the 1st place was their fluff. There are some bad points fluff-wise in the new Codex; namely a couple of the battles (fighting under water) and Lukas the Dickster. However, otherwise in fluff Space Wolves are as they've always been: awesome.
It could be worse, they could be best buds with the Necrons.

I don't know WTF Shaman is on about.
Nonetheless, except for some of the recent additions, I think the Space Wolves fluff is as good as it's always been. Ruleswise, they are horrible when used competitively.
You can make some nice, personal/uncompetitive/fluffy builds, however the level of Razorback/Rune Priest/Grey Hunter and Long Fang over-use is so tedious its worse than Vulkan.

Their fluff is slowly creeping into the Crazy Awesome territory that belongs to the Orks. Much of the fluff, especially that concerning Russ and Lucas, borderlines on hilarious rather than the grimdark fare we're usually treated to.

List-wise, it's like they took every single good part of every Marine list ever made and jammed it into one. Space Wolves have the combat versitility and low cost of Chaos Marines, Psychic prowess of the Blood Angels (yes I do realise BAs came after SW, but there are elements there), Elite Troop choices of the DA, and cool new weaponry of the vanilla dex, and on top of that a slew of their own awesome gear. They even stole something from the Daemon Codex (namely, the ability to field up to 4 HQ choices). It's no longer choosing between your cake and having it, but more like having your cake jammed down your throat by a shotgun.

Wait? What's the 'Crazy Awesome Territory' about Russ?

The guy outdrank and out-ate the emperor, and thought a headache was caused by the drinking, not by a powerfist to the head. And if Shaman's quote is right, Bjorn effectively made Russ into the Chuck Norris of the Space Marines.

Shamans quote is completely wrong man! It's not even quoted in ANY Spacewolf fluff, did you detect the hint of sarcasm there?

Russ was a bit of a douche, I don't deny that. In fact, in my Primarch ranking thread (sig) i fully acknowledged that. He's not any more 'Crazy Awesome' than any other Primarch however. I'm not surprised he out-ate or drank the Emperor, nor am I surprised the Emperor kicked his ass in a fight. if Russ were to beat the Emperor, then I'd concede he is 'Crazy Awesome', however he's no more so than any other Primarch.

Taking a power fist to the head and thinking it was just a hangover though is still crazy awesome in my book. And I said creeping, not entirely taking over.

May I ask where it says he thought it was a hangover then? As I said though, I can slightly believe that would happen, if you could provide some evidence of it though, that'd be dandy.

All 5th edition fluff is creeping into the ridiculous, Space Wolves are no different. In fact, if you compare them to the Blood Angels buddying up with Necrons and having Space Jesus and the Tyranids eating an entire planet of Iron Warriors, then the Space Wolves new fluff is relatively tame in comparison...

"The challenges consisted of three different contest, one being eating, the other drinking, and the third being a fist-fighting one. Russ managed to beat the Emperor at both eating and drinking, but the third challenge was more to the Emperor's liking. Having at first seemed like a disappointment, a drunkard and a boaster, the Primarch suddenly launched a furious attack. This very challenge proved to the Emperor that this was indeed one of his sons, Russ fighting with outstanding speed and power. After having the disappointment lifted from his spirit by his son's ferocity, the Emperor stopped holding back and quickly found an opening in Leman Russ' defences. The Emperor raised his power fist, knocking the Primarch out with a single blow that would have killed a lesser man. Leman Russ awoke later and blamed his loss on the alcohol, but in the end admitted defeat and swore loyalty to the Emperor. "

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Wolves

And I disagree with the new fluff creeping on the ridiculous, the ones that do creep tend to go grimdark. the Space wolves went the other direction, especially with Lucas the trickster (seriously, sharing that many beds in one night?). DE's Vect seems to have been toned DOWN in terms of fluff, since he was originally hinted at being the founder of Commoragh, but now is merely the oldest living archon, definitively not the founder.

Haters gonna hate.

I personally love everything about the SW book. I love the fluff, I love the list choices (still not as cheesy unbalanced as IG or BA).

You don't have to spam long fangs/rune priests etc. and still be competitive. This codex reminds me of the old Chaos 3.5. Not in power level, but in the ability to do many different things and do it well.

If all you see are the same SW lists, maybe its time to get some new friends. After all there is only 2 IG lists (leaf blower and vendetta spam). There is only 1 Tau list, there is only 3 SM lists Vulcan, Pedro, or biker.

So in reality, if all your ever playing against the same damn thing, that should be second nature by now.

No where does it say he thought a hangover due to the booze. It doesn't even mention a hang over. He lost because of the Emperors martial prowess, yes. He blamed it on the booze because he was arrogant and trying to conserve his pride. He still wasn't stupid enough to claim he was hungover let alone that we was due to booze rather than a powerfist to the head. Also:

"For the third challenge Russ boasted he could defeat the Emperor in combat. This time, the Emperor defeated Russ, felling him with a blow from his power glove. Leman admitted defeat and swore to serve the Emperor."
Leman Russ article on Lexicanum

Once again doesn't mention anything about a Hangover. Russ is arrogant, brash and foolish. He is not however stupid and this still doesn't relate to the 5th ed Space Wolf Codex.

Just Dave wrote:No where does it say he thought a hangover due to the booze. It doesn't even mention a hang over. He lost because of the Emperors martial prowess, yes. He blamed it on the booze because he was arrogant and trying to conserve his pride. He still wasn't stupid enough to claim he was hungover let alone that we was due to booze rather than a powerfist to the head. Also:

"For the third challenge Russ boasted he could defeat the Emperor in combat. This time, the Emperor defeated Russ, felling him with a blow from his power glove. Leman admitted defeat and swore to serve the Emperor."
Leman Russ article on Lexicanum

Once again doesn't mention anything about a Hangover. Russ is arrogant, brash and foolish. He is not however stupid and this still doesn't relate to the 5th ed Space Wolf Codex.

If you must go into specific words rather than take my rhetoric with humor then fine I conceed. However then in turn explain to me how not crazy awesome Lucas is.

And take this quote (from the book): "Fenris Breeds Heroes like a Bar Breeds Drunks - Proud, Loud and Spoiling for a Fight" - Grand Master Beilal of the Dark Angels. Pg 21

Then there's Arjac Rockfist, who held off an entire kraken invasion with a hammer. Nuff said.

Just Dave wrote:No where does it say he thought a hangover due to the booze. It doesn't even mention a hang over. He lost because of the Emperors martial prowess, yes. He blamed it on the booze because he was arrogant and trying to conserve his pride. He still wasn't stupid enough to claim he was hungover let alone that we was due to booze rather than a powerfist to the head. Also:

"For the third challenge Russ boasted he could defeat the Emperor in combat. This time, the Emperor defeated Russ, felling him with a blow from his power glove. Leman admitted defeat and swore to serve the Emperor."
Leman Russ article on Lexicanum

Once again doesn't mention anything about a Hangover. Russ is arrogant, brash and foolish. He is not however stupid and this still doesn't relate to the 5th ed Space Wolf Codex.

who cares about whether or not it was a hangover, Russ took a powerfist to the face. WHAT. I'm sorry but primarch or no, that would have annihilated him. ridiculous. As to other points in the fluff that are absurd, Everything about Lukas the trickster, and underwater landraider submarines, lol. Don't get me wrong the fluff behind deepstriking BA landraiders is equally absurd, I don't care how "sturdy" something is, you drop a machine with moving parts and living occupants from several hundred feet with no way to slow its velocity and its going to crumple like a piece of tinfoil.

As to Mephiston what frustrates me is his tabletop God-like status, though TBH I understand, so long as GW eventually has him come out of the closet as the Demon-possessed monster he really is, then I can live with his psycho stat-line.

Brother Heinrich wrote:...GW eventually has him come out of the closet as the Demon-possessed monster he really is, then I can live with his psycho stat-line.

Hehe, there's a Slaanesh-possession joke here somewhere.

Also, the Powerfist didnt come from a Space Marine. It came from the God Emperor of Mankind.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Also, the Powerfist didnt come from a Space Marine. It came from the God Emperor of Mankind.

exactly.

I really like Space Wolves fluff and all, the addition of Lucas even (which he is suppose to be the prime example of space wolves inner anti authority which I find pretty cool) . As for being unbalanced Ill rightly agree with that but also I really think GW is going to revamp every armies stats and all when they get around too it seeing as how both BA and SW have gotten a pretty big pump. As for Mephiston I also play BA, he is a great character and is godly stat line is rightly due since he did conquer the black rage thus becoming the beast he is now . I only play for fun so I guess to make the competitive guys happy maybe start making torneys where no special characters can be played or just mephiston . As for the whole over exaggeration in the stories of Russ and Lucas, isnt that how almost all codices are? Always pumpin up the faction there about? Oh this guy ate a carnifex, this guy knocked out 5 bloodthirsters with one punch, Abbadon, not even a primarch a normal space marine rallied all the 4 powers of chaos (who despise each other) for 13 all out assaults which you think after the first 12 they would choose a better leader. And by the way he doesn't belong to any of the powers either cause he is so awesome sauce!!!

Guess it just depends on the person on how over the top some of the fluff is, seeing as how its the 41st flippin millennium I think anything can go.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

And take this quote (from the book): "Fenris Breeds Heroes like a Bar Breeds Drunks - Proud, Loud and Spoiling for a Fight" - Grand Master Beilal of the Dark Angels. Pg 21

Then there's Arjac Rockfist, who held off an entire kraken invasion with a hammer. Nuff said.

At least Arjac's feat wasn't a lone action. He and his other brothers held the line, Arjac just did the lions share of the work. He also almost died for his efforts. Its not like he finished the fight and only had to scrap some goo from under his fingernails.

Jayden63 wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

And take this quote (from the book): "Fenris Breeds Heroes like a Bar Breeds Drunks - Proud, Loud and Spoiling for a Fight" - Grand Master Beilal of the Dark Angels. Pg 21

Then there's Arjac Rockfist, who held off an entire kraken invasion with a hammer. Nuff said.

At least Arjac's feat wasn't a lone action. He and his other brothers held the line, Arjac just did the lions share of the work. He also almost died for his efforts. Its not like he finished the fight and only had to scrap some goo from under his fingernails.

true, but how do you explain him throwing a hammer, WITH THE FORCE OF A VINDICATOR.

12 brothers to be exact. The codex mentions "last dozen". He also apparently used his body as a plug to save the brothers inside the vault already. Last time I heard something like that was in Cracked's 5 people who makes Rambo look like pussys article.

Also, I'm not saying this is exactly a bad thing, hence why I havent actually taken sides. However I'm just pointing out that there is creep on both ends.

Well it did say he strangled a Kraken with its own tentacles, thus giving proof of his great strength?

Tiny plastic spacemen make me so mad! GRR!

Brother Heinrich wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

And take this quote (from the book): "Fenris Breeds Heroes like a Bar Breeds Drunks - Proud, Loud and Spoiling for a Fight" - Grand Master Beilal of the Dark Angels. Pg 21

Then there's Arjac Rockfist, who held off an entire kraken invasion with a hammer. Nuff said.

At least Arjac's feat wasn't a lone action. He and his other brothers held the line, Arjac just did the lions share of the work. He also almost died for his efforts. Its not like he finished the fight and only had to scrap some goo from under his fingernails.

true, but how do you explain him throwing a hammer, WITH THE FORCE OF A VINDICATOR.

Actually its stronger than a Vindicator because its AP1. That's not fluff, that's just a side effect of how the rules worked out given his weapon and strength. The AP1 is just thrown in there because everything is AP1 now-a-days because GW needs to compensate for their piss poor general vehicle rules.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
If you must go into specific words rather than take my rhetoric with humor then fine I conceed. However then in turn explain to me how not crazy awesome Lucas is.

And take this quote (from the book): "Fenris Breeds Heroes like a Bar Breeds Drunks - Proud, Loud and Spoiling for a Fight" - Grand Master Beilal of the Dark Angels. Pg 21

Then there's Arjac Rockfist, who held off an entire kraken invasion with a hammer. Nuff said.

It's not that I've gone into specific words, it's that no where does it say he was hungover or that he blamed being hungover on a powerfist to the head. It doesn't even imply it. What it does say is that he claimed he was defeated due to the effects of the alcohol which is just arrogance, as I explained. Even without going into specific words, it NO WHERE say or imply he was hungover or that he blamed the (non-existent) hangover on alcohol rather than a power-fist.

As for Lucas and Arjac, I haven't denied their crazy awesomeness, in fact earlier I said:

Just Dave wrote:Fluff wise, I have very little problem with the Space Wolves. In fact the reason I loved them in the 1st place was their fluff. There are some bad points fluff-wise in the new Codex; namely a couple of the battles (fighting under water) and Lukas the Dickster. However, otherwise in fluff Space Wolves are as they've always been: awesome.
It could be worse, they could be best buds with the Necrons.

I don't know WTF Shaman is on about.
Nonetheless, except for some of the recent additions, I think the Space Wolves fluff is as good as it's always been.

I acknowledge that much of the new fluff added into the Codex is stupid, Lukas very much included. Actually Lukas is most at fault. However, Russ is not particularly, if at all, stupid fluff.

New, 5th edition fluff. Stupid.
The core and pre-existing Space Wolf fluff. Awesome.

Also, being a Dark Angel Belial isn't exactly impartial, not does he comment prove anything other than skill with similies.

Brother Heinrich wrote:who cares about whether or not it was a hangover, Russ took a powerfist to the face. WHAT. I'm sorry but primarch or no, that would have annihilated him. ridiculous. As to other points in the fluff that are absurd, Everything about Lukas the trickster, and underwater landraider submarines, lol. Don't get me wrong the fluff behind deepstriking BA landraiders is equally absurd, I don't care how "sturdy" something is, you drop a machine with moving parts and living occupants from several hundred feet with no way to slow its velocity and its going to crumple like a piece of tinfoil.

As to Mephiston what frustrates me is his tabletop God-like status, though TBH I understand, so long as GW eventually has him come out of the closet as the Demon-possessed monster he really is, then I can live with his psycho stat-line.

I agree with all of that except the Powerfist to the face part and Daemon-possessed admition.

If they admit to his being potentially daemon-possessed than it prevents any argument on the matter and spoils the fun and mysterious. He is on the tabletop beyond stupid though.
Also, much worse than Power-fists to the face have happened to Primarchs. Not only that, but the Emperor wouldn't have done so if he thought it would kill him. Fulgrim's been clobbered by a Wraithlord, Horus has lost a bucket-load of blood, Sanguinus has been thrown to the ground and beaten up by a blood-thirster and Magnus has taken down not one, but two titans. When it comes to Primarchs, a powerfist to the face won't kill unless REALLY intended to.

However, Deep-Striking Land Raiders, Lukas, under-water battles, Necron/Blood Angels, Trygon Planet Nom and Space Jesus (Sanguinor) are all stupid fluff but in no way exclusive to Space Wolves...

As I've said, 5th edition fluff IS STUPID. It's still not just the Space Wolves at fault though.
Criticise their competitive builds though, by all means, I also fully acknowledge that flaw.

I'm not fanboy-ing the Space Wolves or claiming they have no flaws, they really do, however it's not the entire Codex/chapter, it's pretty much just the 5th edition stuff, which all armies suffer from...

I thought the hammer was AP1, and either way ... stronger than your lascannon. "downs more ale"

I enjoy the wolves and all their wolfiness, I actually can't stand the vamps though ...

Lord Chiasson wrote:Well it did say he strangled a Kraken with its own tentacles, thus giving proof of his great strength?

Who Arjac. No it doesn't. Arjac is supposed to be a beast of a man even along side other SMs, but all his work is done with Hammer and Shield. No fisticuffs against probing tentacles for him.