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Hello Dakka,

I'm new to BA and wondering if the Stormraven is working for any BA lists out there?

Thanks!

I've only seen it once, and I immobilized it right away.

The ability to launch a blood talon dreadnought straight into assault from 40" away seems pretty cool (and by cool I mean cheesy).

I like cheese!

Ive seen them used & they can be effective. However at AV 12 they are big targets for ML / Lascannons / Lootas.
Being so high up they don't get cover saves most the time. It's a risk/reward thing but they're heavy support & I'd rather just have a predator.
Higher front AV & lower points even for a dedicated AT (3 lascannons).
Then again with the amount of melta BA can bring up close fast they don't quite need as much AT so you can run a dakka pred, (Autocannon & H.Bolters) for 100 or a Fast Vindicator for 145.
The problem is there are better options for less points imo. However if you do use one please, please, PLEASE convert a valkyrie and don't use that gak-looking flying garbage truck GW is producing.

I built an entire Blood Angels army and I did a lot of variant lists before building it.

Here's the problem, one of those full is what, 600 points? (roughly: 200 Gunship, 200 Squad of something, 200 UBER dreadnought) a THIRD of a standard 1850 army? Maybe more points if a character or a priest goes with it, so possibly 7 or 800 points?

In every variant build I just couldn't get enough scoring units and staying power, with even just one gunship, much less multiples. I ended up building 50 jump pack marines and it works generally pretty well instead. I have also seen some great armies built around rhinos and razorbacks with the great predators they have!

Since Assault Marines come as troops, and all the cheap transport vehicles are already fast, the army just doesn't need a flying transport, especially one at that point cost! If you could take one for say 120 points sans
guns, missiles and special armor, maybe, as then 2 or 3 could be played in a single list. But alas 200+ is to much.

I had the opportunity to play against some Blood Angels armys in tournaments that had been built around one and in every case, they just didnt have enough models. I imobilized one right away when I went first and the other, when I went second flew into the middle of my army with a turbo move, and I shot it down with longfangs and dump fired grey hunters till all the contents were dead.

Furthermore the kind of game that happens when a BA army is built around a single core unit that MUST deliver assault units is just to tactically flawed to perform well overall.

A12 is to easy to kill for the points that thing costs, and 2 assaulting units from it is to effective not to kill it. Like Eldar Guardians (with 12 inch guns and assault ineptitude) it's self defeating, to expensive to come in multiples and to weak to survive alone. Also it HAS to move because it's a transport, so it seldom gets to fire its massively overarmed arsenal of main weapons.

I am going to build one because I like the ugly new model, except for fun games, I don't expect it to ever be worth it.

Ailaros wrote:I've only seen it once, and I immobilized it right away.

The ability to launch a blood talon dreadnought straight into assault from 40" away seems pretty cool (and by cool I mean cheesy).

Also not sure where the 40 inches comes from? It could move 12, assault 6 and a 2 inch door move is only 20, half that (maybe some extra for base width shenanigans...?).

I think you build a pretty solid 2k list around 2 of them. Basically something like this:

Meph

2xFurioso's w/Talons
5-6 Termies w/1 LC and the rest TH/SS

4-5x5 Assault Marines w/Melta in Razors

2xRavens

2xBaal Preds w/Assault Cannons

Some Variant on this should handle just fine in most games as you have the firepower, dispersal, speed, and hitting power. Plus it isn't an eggs in one basket kind of list.

Ailaros wrote:I've only seen it once, and I immobilized it right away.

The ability to launch a blood talon dreadnought straight into assault from 40" away seems pretty cool (and by cool I mean cheesy).

The shenanigans a Storm Raven can pull is completely unacceptable, so most players will veto the shenanigans by blowing the gak out of it on turn 1. If the BA player goes 2nd the Storm Raven has no cover save and should end up being destroyed in it's own deployment zone.

Hence why its pretty awful.. I made 2 of my own, but it dissapoints me more than cold one cavalry usually

mcyeatman wrote:Hello Dakka,

I'm new to BA and wondering if the Stormraven is working for any BA lists out there?

Thanks!

the consensus is that its an overpriced flying box of crap. there are dissenters out there, though....

AbaddonFidelis wrote:

mcyeatman wrote:Hello Dakka,

I'm new to BA and wondering if the Stormraven is working for any BA lists out there?

Thanks!

the consensus is that its an overpriced flying box of crap. there are dissenters out there, though....

It's not so much the 200 point cost of the storm raven, it's after dumping 300 points of HQ/Termies/DC and 100+ points in deadnaught into it there is >400 points riding inside the storm raven which draws way too much firepower for AV12.

This thread is destroying my interest in the Stormreaven.

I'm with Augustus about building one just for scat and grins. I'm actually warming up to the new model. Its very Pug like.

IMHO, the stormraven allows the BA player play like an eldar.

What I'm trying to say is, probably the best way to use the blood ravens is to have your entire army use them. You are probably going to have 2-3 of these suckers filled with assault squads and uberized furiosos. Put them all in reserves, pray they dont come out till turns 3-5. and then dislodge everything on objectives.

The ASM not only score, but thanks to the dreadnought, they can dispose of anything that is camping on the objective. The game here on suddenly changes, its a desperate fight for objectives and magically, blood ravens are now below the target priority list. They can do post shots, and thanks to melta immunity, contest other hard to reach objectives.

Think about it, its extremely hard to dislodge 10 asm with FNP supported by an AV13 dread from an objective. Dont get me started with kill points. A full stormraven army coming at the late turns are hard to milk with kill points.


EDIT: Spelling

schadenfreude wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:

mcyeatman wrote:Hello Dakka,

I'm new to BA and wondering if the Stormraven is working for any BA lists out there?

Thanks!

the consensus is that its an overpriced flying box of crap. there are dissenters out there, though....

It's not so much the 200 point cost of the storm raven, it's after dumping 300 points of HQ/Termies/DC and 100+ points in deadnaught into it there is >400 points riding inside the storm raven which draws way too much firepower for AV12.

yep


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mcyeatman wrote:This thread is destroying my interest in the Stormreaven.

I'm with Augustus about building one just for scat and grins. I'm actually warming up to the new model. Its very Pug like.

well look at it this way..... at least you know what you're getting into..... I really like the model too, and I'm going to buy one when it comes out. But there will be..... zerkers inside

schadenfreude wrote:The shenanigans a Storm Raven can pull is completely unacceptable, so most players will veto the shenanigans by blowing the gak out of it on turn 1.

Exactly. I mean, if you were facing off against an eldar player that was able to put 40 Dire avengers and a wraithlord in their wave serpent, you'd shoot it down immediately, right?

As for launching the dreadnought into close combat, I will admit to slight exaggeration. It's not far off though. The Raven moves 12", the dreadnought gets to pile out of the front for 2" with its 3" base, then fleets for 6" and then assaults for 6" for a total of a 29" threat range. That's able to threaten 60% of the board FROM RESERVES, with an even more threatening posture if it starts deployed (starting towards the center on a spearhead game, they basically threaten the entire board), and by "threaten" we're talking about a unit that can wipe out an entire boyz mob in a single charge... from nearly 30" away... Without the ork player being able to do ANYTHING to stop it...

And, of course, it also carries a big wad of death company with apothecary, sanguiniary priest, and reclusiarch (or whatever), which has a slightly shorter, but still huge threat range, and can basically wipe out any unit it wants the turn it charges in.

And it ignores intervening terrain, and it gets free cover, and it ignores melta.

If you can say "cheese", you can say "target".

All that above is correct, but there is an even bigger reason to never fieldthe Stormraven.

The pics that have surfaced of the model...well, it sucks.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/327587.page

Here's hoping that this pictured model was just a studio hodge-podge and not the official model....

oh hush. the model is awesome.

Ailaros wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:The shenanigans a Storm Raven can pull is completely unacceptable, so most players will veto the shenanigans by blowing the gak out of it on turn 1.

Exactly. I mean, if you were facing off against an eldar player that was able to put 40 Dire avengers and a wraithlord in their wave serpent, you'd shoot it down immediately, right?

As for launching the dreadnought into close combat, I will admit to slight exaggeration. It's not far off though. The Raven moves 12", the dreadnought gets to pile out of the front for 2" with its 3" base, then fleets for 6" and then assaults for 6" for a total of a 29" threat range. That's able to threaten 60% of the board FROM RESERVES, with an even more threatening posture if it starts deployed (starting towards the center on a spearhead game, they basically threaten the entire board), and by "threaten" we're talking about a unit that can wipe out an entire boyz mob in a single charge... from nearly 30" away... Without the ork player being able to do ANYTHING to stop it...

And, of course, it also carries a big wad of death company with apothecary, sanguiniary priest, and reclusiarch (or whatever), which has a slightly shorter, but still huge threat range, and can basically wipe out any unit it wants the turn it charges in.

:-) Though, to be fair, that assumes a maximum fleet roll, no terrain, etc... But still, playing a lot of DC, yes, they are stupidly overpowered if used correctly, and I didn't in our game of course :-) Between them and Drop Pods/DoA, the BA can be played as an extremely aggressive assault army that is almost impossible to defend well against with the more standard "gun line" forces...

The DC DN launching out of an Assault Vehicle is worth a LOT of those points, I've had mine simply erase large, expensive squads in a single assault that they never saw coming... :-) Then I've also had my DN flub horribly against IG and get bogged and killed, so YMMV :-) But back to the Raven... I'd say it is well worth it, and if played correctly probably a bit under costed, but just my opinion as always...

Blood Talons are only as overpowered as one's inability to use sacrificial screening units...

Stormravens work well enough from Reserve, and are quite a fun way to drop off min-strength Melta teams of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers...

MagicJuggler wrote:Blood Talons are only as overpowered as one's inability to use sacrificial screening units...

Yes, but the ONLY way to stop it is with multiple suicide units.

Other armies bring things which can do damage without you being able to attack them first, like sternguard and stormtroopers, but the storm raven brings this to an entirely different level.

Really, it only takes one screener and appropriate countercharging/melta elements depending on your army. The Furioso may keep on slicing a unit, but when the only chargeable unit is (as an example) 10 Guardsmen, do the Talons *really* make a difference?

In my book, blood talons are one of the most overrated things in modern 40k-- in fact, I consider them somewhat disadvantageous to take. A Dreadnought with blood talons cannot do much to vehicles, including (critically) another Dreadnought. Though the talons add massively to one's ability to take out infantry, mech is prevalent enough these days that I don't think they are an all-comers choice. The standard Dreadnought equipment also grants strength 10, which can be more important than one might expect these days.

Fetterkey wrote:In my book, blood talons are one of the most overrated things in modern 40k-- in fact, I consider them somewhat disadvantageous to take. A Dreadnought with blood talons cannot do much to vehicles, including (critically) another Dreadnought. Though the talons add massively to one's ability to take out infantry, mech is prevalent enough these days that I don't think they are an all-comers choice. The standard Dreadnought equipment also grants strength 10, which can be more important than one might expect these days.

Yeah but any weapon that says "Until you run out of attacks or the entire enemy unit is destroyed" gains an instantly awesome status

AbaddonFidelis wrote:oh hush. the model is awesome.

Well, to quote my Chinese friend, "Some like turnips, some like radishes."

IMO, there are many conversions that look so much better than the ChibiRaven...

I would just scratch buld one and solve the cover problems by having it on a skimmer base NOT the base a Valk comes with.


you can do that as there really isn't an official model(yet)


i saw a guy who converted a Valk really nicely. just turn the Hull so the back end is now the front and attach the Wings to what was once the front. that way you have an assault ramp(rear door) and the whole thing is very sleek looking.

Ive sat down and talked to a few friends that play blood angles about it and from what i can gather it really pisses them off that they have to pay 200pts for this flying target thats not even good and it takes a heavy slot when a guard player pays 130 for a vendetta with 3 twin linked Las that is in the fast slot. I can kinda see where they're coming from

at least my GKs should have it in the FA slot

or, Emperor's Mercy, as a DT.

Grey Templar wrote:at least my GKs should have it in the FA slot

or, Emperor's Mercy, as a DT.

DT would make this thing awesome

Also, one of these is a huge target and 3 is too expensive (maybe not in 2500pts), so would taking 2 be a good option?

Also means you have to take another payload, removing the dread can cut the cost but then whats the point of taking a stormraven if it just becomes a faster weaker land raider?

well, if it can hide and get cover(which if you put it on a skimmer base it should)then it will become very survivable.

if it survives it can just turbo-boost around and fire one weapon with PotMS while having a 4+ cover(after it's dropped it's cargo off of course)

it probably is better with only 2 of them. still can carry a full load and you will have enough for the rest of your army.


What if you stick 10 Assault marines without Jump packs in each of them. and you then get 2 empty Rhinos for pretty cheap.

you then have a couple of Assault squads with Packs.


if the Ravens get popped the assault marines can hop in their rhino and keep going forward. the Marines with packs move forward regardless.

Make the Dreds Furioso libbies with Wings so they too can move fast if the raven goes down.

if the Raven doesn't go down then its a bonus. 400ish points out of a 2k list isn't a major loss.

I have found them to be very effective. Here is my Army list.

Veritechc's Angry Marines

Mephiston


Belligerent Engine (Furioso Dreadnought with dual Blood Talons)


Their Ride

"The Wild Turkey" (Stormraven, Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin Linked Multi Melta , 4 Blood Strike Missiles)



Master of Blasphemy (Reclusiarch in Power Armor with Combi-Flamer)

Black Brothers (5 Death Company, one with Thunder Hammer, 2 with Power Weapons, one with Infernus Pistol, and one with Chainsword and Bold Pistol.)


Furioso Librarian (with Blood Lance and Wings of Sanguinius)


Their ride:

"The Bird" (Stormraven, Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin Linked Multi Melta , 4 Blood Strike Missiles)



Right Baal (Baal Predator with Heavy Bolter Sponsons)


Left (Blue) Baal (Baal Predator with Heavy Bolter Sponsons)


Odd Baal (Baal Predator with Heavy Bolter Sponsons)



Angrier Squad 01 (5 Assault Marines, Sergeant with Power Weapon, one Marine with Melta Gun)

Priest of Ire (Sanguary Priest with Power Weapon and Combi Flamer

Their ride:

Razorback wit Twin Linked Assault Cannon




Angrier Squad 02 (6 Assault Marines, Sergeant with Power Weapon, one Marine with Melta Gun)

Their ride:

Razorback wit Twin Linked Assault Cannon



Angrier Squad 03 (6 Assault Marines, Sergeant with Power Weapon, one Marine with Melta Gun)

Their ride:

Razorback wit Twin Linked Assault Cannon

That's everyone with the Angry Marine equivalent names.


The way I use then is that they are the two hammers for my army. They can't be ignored else you will have Mephiston, a Dual Blood Talon Dread and/or A Librarian Dread and Death Company in your grill on turn two. While the enemy is trying to shoot them down they are not shooting at the rest of my very shooty army. More importantly they are not shooting at my troops.

Some great tricks: turbo boost them on turn one and still be able to fire the twin linked Multi Melta at the scariest vehicle with Power of the Angry Machine Spirit. Fire all 4 Blood Strike, AP1 missiles at terminators and watch them die. Use them as gunships after they have delivered their cargo.

I haven't posted pictures for the second Stormraven but here is one of "The Bird":



Some things to remember: They are Armor 12 Landraders that can turbo boost! Twin Linked Multi Meltas are great at busting armor. Their Cermerite Plating make meltas roll only 1d6. 4 72 in range missiles! Twin-Linked Assault cannons make grown men cry.

There you have it. I love my Stormravens. They help me win games. They keep Mephiston, my Death Company and Dreadnoughts safe for at least a turn. How could you not like them. We, unless you look at the model GW has made for them...