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Since this is all about squad and army lists I felt it was the best place to ask what kind of gear you like to include with the army. Now some armies can spend points on tech real easy. And when I ask about Tech, my meaning is not based on Vehicles but unit tech like Auspexes and Servo-skulls equipped with Iron Halos and things of that nature for marines to acid blood in tyranids. Do they have an actual use in the game or are they there just to look cool and be an interesting fluff for the fiction later on. I did some looking over at the Lexicon and in the Codex but found it very limited in dealing with the fluff it seemed to talk more weapons and armor than additional equipment.

One player told me that an Auspex lets you measure before you declare an attack and another player told me that was the Signum pack that a devastator Sgt. wears. So that left me a bit confused and while thats a rules question I felt maybe if I drop it in the army list section and then I can see what kind of units do actually benefit from such tech.

dalsiandon wrote:Since this is all about squad and army lists I felt it was the best place to ask what kind of gear you like to include with the army. Now some armies can spend points on tech real easy. And when I ask about Tech, my meaning is not based on Vehicles but unit tech like Auspexes and Servo-skulls equipped with Iron Halos and things of that nature for marines to acid blood in tyranids. Do they have an actual use in the game or are they there just to look cool and be an interesting fluff for the fiction later on. I did some looking over at the Lexicon and in the Codex but found it very limited in dealing with the fluff it seemed to talk more weapons and armor than additional equipment.

One player told me that an Auspex lets you measure before you declare an attack and another player told me that was the Signum pack that a devastator Sgt. wears. So that left me a bit confused and while thats a rules question I felt maybe if I drop it in the army list section and then I can see what kind of units do actually benefit from such tech.

Seems like this should be somewhere else, but:

If the codex says the unit has it, the unit has it. If the codex says you can buy it for a veteran sergent or a chaplain or whatever, you can buy it for that character. If you have it modeled on but you don't pay the points, it doesn't count.

"What you see is what you get" is a restrictive rule, not an inclusive one: in order to buy it the model has to have it, but having it on the model doesn't do anything unless you pay for it.

Doctor Optimal wrote:

Seems like this should be somewhere else....

I have the rules question straight up in the rules forum, I was curious as to what tech you equip your army with? And how to best maximize it. As a new player I want to equip my army in a way that it will be effective and allow me to learn more than just bolt gun attack, assault with chain blades and bayonettes, but how other tech works with an army.

But I do understand the point spending answer, you have to spend the points and the codex has to allow it, otherwise its just decoration

Is there a particular army you are asking about? My pack loadouts for Space Wolves will not be particularly beneficial to a Tyranid player....

If you are asking about squad loadout, here is what I use for Space Wolves:

Grey Hunters - Wolf Standard, Meltagun, sometimes Mark of the Wulfen. The Wolf Standard is the best 10 points you can spend on a pack of Grey Hunters and can really swing the tide of battle. Mark of the Wulfen is nice to have as it adds quite a bit of melee hitting power against tougher targets.

Thunderwolves - I generally take a pair of Storm Shields, a Thunder Hammer and a Meltabomb in the pack to give each of them different wargear for wound allocation. On 2 wound models this is very important as it can prevent you from removing whole models and lets you spread wounds out across the pack before someone dies. The Storm Shields are there to deal with incoming Power Weapon/Fist attacks and the Thunder Hammer adds some S10 attacks for dealing with Dreadnoughts and the like.

Long Fangs - Just Missile Launchers. I run them relatively stripped down with inexpensive weapons that serve a dual purpose. This keeps the cost down while giving them versatility. It also makes up for the lack of heavy weapons in my Grey Hunter packs.

Wolf Guard - As pack leaders I give them a Power Fist/Combi-Melta, or just the Combi-Melta if it's a 5 man pack in a Razorback. The Fist is cheaper for them than Grey Hunters, and they have an extra attack making it much more efficient to take it on a Wolf Guard than in the pack itself.

Blood Claws - I rarely field them but if I do I run them naked, sometimes with a Meltagun if I have an extra 5 points.

Wolf Scouts - Usually BP/CCW with a Meltagun in the pack and Mark of the Wulfen. Sometimes I give them Meltabombs, and I always attach a pack leader. Meltabombs give them utility against enemy armor/ordnance hiding behind his front lines, and the Mark of the Wulfen gives them some extra combat utility as mentioned in the Grey Hunters entry.

Wolf Lords - I always take them on a Thunderwolf and arm them with a Wolf Claw and Storm Shield. As for "tech" I give them a Wolf Tooth Necklace to ensure they hit ona 3+ against Daemon Princes and the like, and Meltabombs for dealing with Dreadnoughts or vehicles. I also tend to give them Fenrisian Wolves for ablative wounds.

Rune Priests - If one has Living Lightning it gets a Chooser of the Slain to give it BS5, and to push back enemy infiltrators, but other than that I give them minimal gear if any. I tend to keep them cheap and let their powers do the work.

I never upgrade vehicles with any tech except Extra Armor on Land Riaders if I take one, and occasionally Dozer Blades on Vindicators. I cannot think of any other units that I actually take "tech" for as such. Weapon loadouts vary based on the needs of the list, but "tech" is generally classified as "useful" or "crap". Column A almost always makes it into the list while column B never does.

Aldarionn wrote:Is there a particular army you are asking about? My pack loadouts for Space Wolves will not be particularly beneficial to a Tyranid player....

If you are asking about squad loadout, here is what I use for Space Wolves:

Grey Hunters - Wolf Standard, Meltagun, sometimes Mark of the Wulfen. The Wolf Standard is the best 10 points you can spend on a pack of Grey Hunters and can really swing the tide of battle. Mark of the Wulfen is nice to have as it adds quite a bit of melee hitting power against tougher targets.

Thunderwolves - I generally take a pair of Storm Shields, a Thunder Hammer and a Meltabomb in the pack to give each of them different wargear for wound allocation. On 2 wound models this is very important as it can prevent you from removing whole models and lets you spread wounds out across the pack before someone dies. The Storm Shields are there to deal with incoming Power Weapon/Fist attacks and the Thunder Hammer adds some S10 attacks for dealing with Dreadnoughts and the like.

Long Fangs - Just Missile Launchers. I run them relatively stripped down with inexpensive weapons that serve a dual purpose. This keeps the cost down while giving them versatility. It also makes up for the lack of heavy weapons in my Grey Hunter packs.

Wolf Guard - As pack leaders I give them a Power Fist/Combi-Melta, or just the Combi-Melta if it's a 5 man pack in a Razorback. The Fist is cheaper for them than Grey Hunters, and they have an extra attack making it much more efficient to take it on a Wolf Guard than in the pack itself.

Blood Claws - I rarely field them but if I do I run them naked, sometimes with a Meltagun if I have an extra 5 points.

Wolf Scouts - Usually BP/CCW with a Meltagun in the pack and Mark of the Wulfen. Sometimes I give them Meltabombs, and I always attach a pack leader. Meltabombs give them utility against enemy armor/ordnance hiding behind his front lines, and the Mark of the Wulfen gives them some extra combat utility as mentioned in the Grey Hunters entry.

Wolf Lords - I always take them on a Thunderwolf and arm them with a Wolf Claw and Storm Shield. As for "tech" I give them a Wolf Tooth Necklace to ensure they hit ona 3+ against Daemon Princes and the like, and Meltabombs for dealing with Dreadnoughts or vehicles. I also tend to give them Fenrisian Wolves for ablative wounds.

Rune Priests - If one has Living Lightning it gets a Chooser of the Slain to give it BS5, and to push back enemy infiltrators, but other than that I give them minimal gear if any. I tend to keep them cheap and let their powers do the work.

I never upgrade vehicles with any tech except Extra Armor on Land Riaders if I take one, and occasionally Dozer Blades on Vindicators. I cannot think of any other units that I actually take "tech" for as such. Weapon loadouts vary based on the needs of the list, but "tech" is generally classified as "useful" or "crap". Column A almost always makes it into the list while column B never does.

I have a modest imperial fist army and an even smaller Tyranid army that I am planning to start in January. Thank you for your answers. Its nice to see how a player equips his force for a real game. The rule book and the codex is so minimal. Its direction, divide your SM tactical squad into an anti-infantry and anti-armor combat squads; Lasguns and meltas for armor or krak grenades and missiles, Bolters, flamers and frag grenades and missiles for the anti-infantry thats about it....

So how do you decide what is column A "useful" tech and what is column B "crap" tech? Or does that again depend on the army? I think this is what is hardest for a new player like myself to determine when building an army list. I have few games under my belt and in the little pond of a local game store the learning curve can be very confined.

Usually the difference between useful and crap wargear will depend on army and army build. Some gear is so good that it warrants use across many armies. An example of this would be taking an Inquisitor with a psychic hood and two mystics. This unit can be joined with any Space Marine or Imperial Guard army and gives the user a chance to negate a psychic power anywhere on the table as well as take shots at any units deep striking near your Inquisitor.

augustus5 wrote:Usually the difference between useful and crap wargear will depend on army and army build. Some gear is so good that it warrants use across many armies. An example of this would be taking an Inquisitor with a psychic hood and two mystics. This unit can be joined with any Space Marine or Imperial Guard army and gives the user a chance to negate a psychic power anywhere on the table as well as take shots at any units deep striking near your Inquisitor.

I wouldn't really go into allies with a new player, especially since the current FAQ makes it illegal for anyone to take Daemonhunter or Witch Hunter allies any longer.

As for determining what fits into the useful or crap categories......the long and short of it is that most of it goes into the crap category. Many new players bloat their lists with upgrades that are really not useful. Generally I look at a piece of wargear and I say to myself "will this actually see use several times through a game, or is it likely to only be used every few games?" If the answer is that it will be used most every game, I then ask "is it worth its points". That's a lot more difficult question, and one that only comes from experience. I consider the Wolf Standard to be an auto-include in almost every list, but the Mark of the Wulfen I only take if I have the extra points for it. It took several games for me to properly prioritize those.

Get some games under your belt and post some lists with what you think is good wargear/tech, and see how others comment on it. From there, start making decisions about what you think is good or bad.

Alright thats helpful. If its used regularly then its good, if not its crap and costing points that are being wasted.

Alright so for elites i have two Dreadnoughts, and as an IF player the fluff of hte faction is seige warfare, so my two Dreadnoughts are geared to do that.
1 is Brother Leny, he came out of the AoBR set but I added a smoke launcher onto him, so hes got the multi-melta and the melee claw with stormbolter, and my second Dread, Brother Karl has the dual lascannon and the missile launcher, as well as the spotlight and smoke launcher, (however I do have the auto-cannon arm and the melee claw with flamer ready for Karl if necessary but his standard load-out is missiles and lascannons). I figured that both have anti-infantry ability and can deal with armor too. The missiles can vary which is being fired each round between the Krak and Frag's from my understanding.

So then for illustrative sake, lets say I play against Orks all the time, then the assault cannon would be the better option and the lascannon would become crap tech because the orc vehicles can be trashed by the missiles just as easily and the assault cannon will fair better against the Orc mob. While the AoBR Dread Leny is in the same position, melta for vehicles stormbolter and melee for the mob.

And in turn the question shifts was the flamer worth the +5 points or was the stormbolter the useful tech in this scenario