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First, I know Tau are kind of jacked at the moment, but I love the fluff and the models and after I explain the situation, it will make sense.

My buddies and I are starting an escalation league. We all picked a race we didn't play and are going to start with a Battleforce and then add points each game. So, I'm not looking for a force to win tournies. I have some specific questions, and I'd love some suggestions, discussions, etc.

Question 1- The Fire Warriors can choose the carbine and the pulse. If I want to go wysiwyg on the model, which should I go with and why? I haven't played alot woth any troops that can pin, so I don't know how useful it is and if its worth giving up the range and fire rate for.

Q2- Obviously Crisis Suits are important. The loadout options on these puppies are intimidating. What are more useful? Combos? Different complimentary squad loadouts?\

Q3- How do you use your drones? Which do you take and why?

What else do I need to know? Any good strats for a very basic Tau force?

Thanks in advance.

Most common crisis suit upgrades i have seen is plasma/missiles. gives you a decent number of high strength shots to neutralize enemy armor/high T units or just small model count units like SM or something with decent range on those weps.

the other two questions i am not so sure about.

if i remember correctly, rifles vs carbines end up being about the same, the carbine just has better mid range capabilities or something.

Idealy, you wanna keep that 30'' rifle range is pretty sick.

Pathfinders are also a great investment for marker lights.random, but seems to be true if you have the points for a couple small units.

drones, i have only seen used as shield drones with broadsides.

Thanks. ANyone else?

pulse rifles over carbines. too many high leadership/ rerollable leadership/ fearless units out there to be moving w/ in 18 inches and shooting only once.

Unlike most races, the Tau battleforce is actually worth getting and provides a playable force directly out of the box.

This set contains
1 xv-8 Battlesuit
3 Stealth Suits
12 Fire Warriors
12 Kroot
1 Devilfish
90$

I would then add
2 xv-8 suits
1 xv-8 Commander
1 Hammerhead
1 Devilfish
145$

This addition will make a competitive 1000 pt list or a stretched out 1500 list

1 Hammerhead
3 Broadsides
3 Crisis Suits
205$

This will make a competitive 1500 list in the basic semi mech build that Tau must run to be effective in this edition

To get to your magic 1750, Its really up to you. This is the area where stuff begins to diverge from the "needs" to the "wants" I would suggest one of the following items

3 Piranhas 75$

8(9) Pathfinders 45$

10 Kroots hounds and 16 Carnivores 95$

3 Crisis Suits 60$

Tau are certainly not the easiest army to start with. They are very unforgiving and require a lot of games to get used to. Speaking from experience, it takes about 20 games to find your feet and more after that to become really proficient. Tau require constant attention to detail because the smallest mistakes in movement or target priority can be fatal. Websites like dakka as well as Advanced Tau Tactica, and Yes The Truth Hurts can get you up to speed and should be consulted early and often. This is not meant to be discouraging, far from it. However, when you do start Tau, realize what you are getting into.

A little more about playing Tau at this level.

Once you reach this level and above, the great Pathfinder v No Pathfinder debate starts. Pathfinders are increadibly useful units, that can cover a number of flaws in the Tau list. IMO however, I can't justify the 200+ points it costs to field a full Pathfinder squad and their Warfish until I reach 2000 pts. YMMV and certainly others will tell you that they are a mandatory unit and they may not be wrong. My advice is to try them for yourself.

Kroot are another major bone of contention with Tau players. Many people use them as "bubblewrap" to protect high point crisis and broadside teams. Other people despise them and will never field them. The two major unit sizes are the basic 10 carnivores and the 5 hound 10-12 carnivore groupings. The first is a ultra basic cannon fodder troop. Because I can't ever seem to find the 60$ for kroot hounds, this is my preferred size. I always outflank with them to keep them alive. In this role, they serve to chew up small board hugging squads and vehicles. If used in this role remember one rule, Double Tap Marines, never assault them. Marines will slaughter your carnivores before they can swing and you will do less damage overall. This initiative deficiency is why you have hounds. With hounds, you can assault marines, just remember to put the wounds from the marines on the hounds, so your carnivores survive to swing. The shaper and the armor upgrade are worthless. For the cost, you can get more carnivores and do more damage.

Fire Warriors have so much potential, but often fall short of what you expect of them. Always set you expectations low for FW, any damage they do is a bonus. Their main duty is to ride in their transport and make it scoring. Sure they can pop out and rapid fire something (Land speeders come to mind) but their main role is to sit pretty. You will never need more than 12 FW. The only time I have needed more is for kill team. (where they are awesome) Put a squad of 6 in a devilfish and drive them around. I have two in my lists. That said, a FW squad sitting innocuously in cover in a corner can cover a surprising amount of the table with strength 5 shots. Against light vehicles like Land speeders and vypers this is a potent threat and one you opponent will often overlook.

Devilfish are the unit that keep Tau competitive in 5th edition. These should always have a Disruption pod. 5 points for a 4 up cover yes please. I always make my Devilfish a Warfish by addition a targeting array, multi tracker and Smart missile system. This makes up for the lack of shooting from the FW team inside. It also replaces the drones that count as an extra kill point. It does add about 40 points onto the cost of an already expensive transport however, so YMMV

Steath Suits are just not very good unfortunatly. They are simply too expensive and take an elite slot away from crisis teams. If they were cheaper or could take more special weapons they would be more useful. Right now they are an over priced torrent of fire unit that lacks definition.

Crisis suits are the backbone of most any tau army and are a topic of much contention between Tau players. There are many opinions on the subject, many of which have merit. I will present mine here and hopefully others (if Focusedfire hasn't ninja'd me already ) will chime in with their ideas so you can get a broader picture. IMO, and I stress, IMO anything that gets in the way of providing the maximum number of shots is a bad thing. I would prefer to the maximum number of crisis suits on the table, then to have fewer, more efficient, and to an extent more survivable suits. Call it quantity over quality, but IMO suits aren't tremendously survivable anyway and I would like to get more of them on the table so if I lose a few, I have more to fall back on. A Soviet Army ideal for the Space Commies (ooh the irony) With the philosophy out of the way, lets get to the configurations.

I run 4 (configurations) in my lists

My commander is a Shas'el with a Targeting Array, Missile Pod, Hard Wired Multi-tracker, and Fusion Blaster. (Modified FireForge) This is a multi role suit, who can attach to one of my other squads and support their fire, or can be deep struck to hunt armor with the melta.

I always run at least one, and usually two squads of (Fireknives) This is the most common suit configuration, and is a true multirole suit. Simply a Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, and Multi tracker this suit covers most all of your bases and is a must include in all of my lists. Its an expensive suit (a squad of three runs just shy of 190 pts) but the utility, is invaluable.

My other must include unit is a unit of (Deathrain-F) This suit is designed to be cheap, but it does its job reliably and cover's some bases that I find lacking in my lists. With a Twin Linked Missile Pod and a Flamer, this squad will drop a chimera or a rhino every turn or can reliable put wounds on high toughness creatures and HQ's. If necessary, it can close and use the flamers for anti-horde. Note this configuration has no multi tracker, so its an either/or situation with the weapons.

The last configuration is a response to the large numbers of FNP Blood angels and Loganwing armies I have started to see much more regularly. The (Sunforge) is a major sacrifice to the ideal of ignoring armor and FNP. Using a Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, and a Multi tracker this unit will utterly decimate most units not in cover. However, the extremely short range makes this a one way mission if you can't totally wipe the squad in question. Costing equal to the Fireknives, its an expensive suicide unit, but its very effective vs low model count elite armies. It also smokes Carnifexes. This squad more than any other benefits from markerlight support to make sure that those shots count.

Vespids are unfortunately made of fail. While its occasionally satisfying to drop the bug bomb on the local marine player, they are far too fragile and expensive to be used competitively.

Piranhas are a matter of personal taste. I really enjoy taking them, and I find they provide a useful function for me. However, they do give up a lot of kill points if they aren't squadroned. I always field mine with a Fusion Blaster, a Targeting Array, and a Disruption Pod. This provides maximum utility, but makes them a little expensive. Their use it very situational, but boils down to either Tank hunting or being a speed bump. The tank hunter is self explanatory. Being a speed bumb means turbo boosting directly in front of a fast moving assault unit to slow them down or directly in the path of a vehicle to force them to move around the piranha (or risk dangerous going through the piranha's wreckage ) This "Stiff arm" can buy you critical early turns where Tau can win or lose the game. ( a note about the drones, don't forget the piranha is a open topped vehicle and the drones can assault out of it. Use this to contest late objective or to keep a fleeing squad from regrouping. Also despite their crappy BS, the drones can occasionally pop rear armor with S5 Shots, so sometimes its worth ejecting them to go for the twofer when behind the enemy. Their shots are also pinning FWIW)

Sniper Drones have never been a favorite of mine. This is simply a recognition that field sniper drones means less railguns. In lower point games (1000 or less or in team tournaments) they can be very effective. The combination of dropping marines on two's w/ no armor save and the BS4 networked markerlights are nice and they would be used much more if they occupied a different FOC slot, but they don't and I can't recommend them. Slipping a rail rifle or two into your pathfinder squad is a better way to get rail rifles onto the battlefield.

Skyrays are also something that is probably in the wrong FOC. The combination of limited ammuntion and weak (and expensive) secondary armament makes it a no go for me. Great in Apoc though.

Broadsides are simple the final answer in Anti-anything really. If its a single target that resides on the table and can be seen, broadsides can kill it in at most two turns. Broadsides are pretty simple to deploy. Always give them the unfortunately named Advanced Stabilization system, so they have limited mobility. (and so Dawn of War doesn't screw you for a turn) Also near mandatory are two shield drones. These provide the protection from all of the scary weapons that will come their way. Broadsides nearly always should find a elevated position (cover is really nice too) and simple dominate the battlefield. I always give the team leader a target lock so that he can independently target from the squad. (Always check to see how your gaming group deals with this piece of wargear, which rides the ragged edge of legality due to an outdated codex) Don't forget that despite their tank killing prowess, that Broadsides do have a Smart Missile System as well which is much more effective vs hordes than turning one or two termagaunts into component atoms with the railguns. Broadsides should always have priority for markerlights. Reducing cover against the railguns is invaluable.

Hammerheads are the opposite side of the coin, trading concentrated firepower for mobility and the almighty large blast template. Never forget that Hammerhead have an integrated targeting array and are always BS4. Hammerhead should ALWAYS have a Disruption pod and should most of the time have a multi tracker so that you can fire like a fast vehicle. Target locks are also nice so that you can shoot two separate targets. I find that I primarily use the large blast with the hammerhead, not that the hammerhead isn't a capable anti tank platform, I just find that I have an overwhelming tendancy to roll ones and twos when I really need them. The blast template is the really the only one the tau have available, so I really try to let the broadsides and crisis suits deal with the tanks and use the Hammerhead for anti infantry.

I find that for the point levels that you are talking about, that a 1 to 2 Broadside to Hammerhead ratio is ideal. Its really fun to "bring the rain" with multiple Broadside teams, but you risk being too static to survive.


I will copy in another post on playstyle after this but I want to mention one thing.

Target priority is where Tau win and lose the game. Certain things must die for tau to have a chance. Wasted shots are the worst sin a tau player can commit.(followed closely by being so excited about the shooting phase that you skip the movement phase) To prevent wasted shots, carefully consider line of fire to the targets and what abilities your units have (anti tank, anti MEQ, anti horde) and then fire the units with the most restricted target selection first, so that you have redundancy if a units fails to destroy a target.

ie My hammerhead can only shoot the Rhino, so I will shoot it first. Followed by the Deathrain team who can target the rhino if the hammerhead misses or take out the land speeder in the open. Finally, the Broadsides will target, the Land Raider if everything has been destroyed or cover one of the other teams surviving targets. This way you never waste shots because you always have targets of opportunity available. Enemy mobility should always be targeted first. Tau can outshoot almost anyone from across the board.

Final Thoughts
Always buy the Skyray box, it contains all parts for any tau tank
Keep your troops cheap
Deploy carefully

Have Fun with Tau



Razor

Razor, you are my hero!

The great thing about your response is it gives me a good idea of how to buy my army. As a Necron player my knee jerk was to get lots of FW and Crisis as an analogue to warriors and destroyers, and then fill in with broadsides and hammerheads. I'm not crazy about Kroots, but see how they may be needed.
Anyhow, you gave me a ton to think about, and I'd be interested to see anyone who disagrees. At first its going to be battleforce vs battleforce, but I plan on building a full Tau army.
Anyhow, cheers!

Razorlead, that was a great post. Care to make it into an Article?

BlackMath, I have an article up about equipping Crisis Suits; this may help you out too.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Tau_Crisis_Suit_Loadouts

Thanks for the link. I still am glad I chose Tau, cause I love the models and the fluff, but the reasearch I am doing is kind of scary...

Also with crisis suits make sure you magnetize. I have about 10 magnitized suits including a commander than one commander I finally went out and bought to specially equip with an AFP and CIB since I always ran one with this configuration. It took me countless games to get to the point where I kept one configuration and if I know I am going up against a certain army I will change it up. For an all comers list I typically run 3 deathrains with team leader and 2 squads of 2 helios. This is at an 1850 point level. I have around 7500 points of Tau. You are able to find a lot of things quite cheap except hammerheads and broadsides.

I've managed to get a total of 5 piranhas about 3 of them were 50% off retail. In conjunction with markerlights you can have them move all out then use markerlights to fire off seeker missiles at rear armor for the first round. They get the auto 4+ cover save from moving all out. Next round you can drop off some drones to harrass the back lines and use the fusion blaster on the piranhas to cause havoc for tanks nearby or block movement of said tanks if you miss.

Broadsides are your anti-tank. Use them well but they will draw tons of firepower. At 1850 I run 2-3 with shield drones and ASS to get slow and purposeful. I also run 2 hammerheads for 2 S6 AP4 pieplates to throw around the table. With target locks you can fire at tons of enemies with 1 hammerhead.

At low points games, equip your Crisis Suits with MP/BC/MT. They're cheap in points, and the Tau high volume fire, in your early Escalation games, will be more than other armies can handle, say 750 or less.

Once you're heading to 1k games, switch to FireKnives (MP/PR/MT).

After 1250-1500, then diversifying into the Deathrains, Helios and all that begins to be dictated by your opponents' builds (since you'll have some idea, being in an Escalation league).

So, got that match up against Mr. Ork? The FireStorm, the first suit I recommended) will be good for blasting his troops and low armored vehicles. I'd avoid flamers in general, as they put your suits too close to h2h.

For Escalation, that it is in a nutshell.

Having run my Tau since they were released I agree with most of what Razorlead says. I think my 2 main points of contention are about how best to use Kroot and the us eof stealthsuits. The kroot bit is pretty simple, they are dirt cheap scoring units and they infiltrate. Just hide them all over the board and you can either use them to bait your opponent or hope they get forgotten until the end of the game. Once they're in cover they are hard to shift.

I love stealthsuts. It is a criminal waste of points to put burst cannon on crisis suits, but on stealthsuits they rock. I tend to run a squad of 4 (so no bonding knife needed) which gives you the firepower of a full fire warrior squad and awesome mobility. They should also be run on a flank to prevent the enemy from firing back as much as possible. The stealth field is mainly useful against long range heavy weapons fire. Anything at 18" or less will more than likely be able to see them, and they aren't hugely resilient.

What I've found running Tau is that you need to be able to concentrate your firepower to be effective. Tau have lots of powerful guns but the basic troopers aren't terribly accurate. Hence my favourite use is to use the suit mobility to keep away from the enemy and every turn jump in toward a single enemy unit (or perhaps 2 smaller units) and do my best to annihalate them. This is where the stealthsuits come into play, providing a mobile concentration of firepower. If you split your units up too much you might cause a bit of damage to each unit you fire at, but the enemy will soon get into combat and mulch you.

Flinty wrote:It is a criminal waste of points to put burst cannon on crisis suits, but on stealthsuits they rock.

This is something that I used to agree on, but changed my mind once I did the math. Let's break this down:

3 x Stealthsuits - 90 points - 9 shots, 4.5 hits (on average) = 20 points per hit

3 x Crisis Suits w/ twin-linked burst cannons (and flamer; it's cheap) - 123 points - 9 shots, 6.75 hits (on average) = 18.22 points per hit

Advantages of the Stealthsuits: Stealth Generator, ability to take more than three in a squad.

Advantages of the Crisis Suits: Tougher, more wounds, bonus flamer on each suit.

It's not criminal, and I personally prefer the Crisis Suit build if you're not running much else in the way of S5 AP5 shooting.

But it means that you're sticking S5 AP5 weapons on a crisis suit. Virtually every other unit in the army has such weapons (indeed your main scoring infantry can take nothing else) and therefore I think its totally redundant to put them on Crisis suits, which are the only unit in the army capable of carrying "special" weapons.

I used to be in that camp, I really did. Here's what changed my mind:

1. Firewarriors that aren't in Devilfish are TOAST. They never last long, especially with their crummy leadership, and if they're close enough to do any real damage, they'll likely be gone the next turn.

2. Making a Devilfish into a Warfish is VERY expensive, pointwise; you're adding about 50% to the cost of the vehicle.

3. Where else do you get S5 AP5 shooting? Broadsides are mostly firing their Railguns. Hammerheads will have it as a secondary weapon, but you don't get much overall (unless you take three Hammerheads, and then you lose out on Railguns). Piranhas can take a Burst Cannon, but then you can't put the Fusion Blaster on them. I really don't see another good place to put them.

Taking Stealth Suits instead of Crisis Suits still costs you an Elite slot, so I see no advantage there. If you really need the Burst Cannons, I see Crisis Suits as being the superior platform to Stealth Suits for the weapon, for the reasons I listed above.

But you need to factor in synergy betwen the units. Fire warriors might not last long on their own but you're better off using their weapons as part of a combined arms attack on a single unit than you are keeping them bottled up in the devilfish. With proper positioning the 'fish can provide mobile cover to shield them next turn at least as well as if they were still inside the thing.

In my view its about timing and application of available force. Fire warriors have good guns but can be fragile, so you provide them with some crisis suit support and a mobile wall Means you don't waste the dozen or so shots you can get out of the FW squad and also means they don't get totally pasted immediately. To replace the dozen S5 AP5 shots you can get from a minimum size squad you would need to have 4 crisis suits with burst cannon. Thats an awfully expensive swap.

I don't disagree with you, but with my Shoot and Scoot play style, static Firewarriors got destroyed and were cost ineffective if I put 12 in a Devilfish. I do understand where you're coming from.

I guess what I'm missing is how Burst Cannons are better on Stealthsuits than Crisis Suits.

Basically because you can't give stealthsuits anything else Crisis suits can take plasma rifles and missile pods and I just feel that its a waste to stick burst cannon on the crisis chassis. I also think that the additional survivability of the stealth field is handy for the type of mission I tend to send my stealthsuits on (always counting as being in cover when charged is handy for short ranged troops)

For the gun drones that come in the battleforce, the best use I can come up with is diversionary, stick-in-the-mud, wrench(spanner)-in-the-gears, tactics. Deepstrike them into the heart of the enemy or just relentlessly push with them, force your opponent to deal with them.

Thanks for all the great discussion. Remember, the topic is "Escalation." All I have to start with is the Battleforce. So, I will be running exactly what is in the box. That means I will be rinnung Stealth Suits, 1 (!) Crisis Suit, 12 FW, 1 Devilfish, 4 drones, and a sqad of Carnivores. So the question of Stealth vs. Crisis is irrelevent.

Soemone please to be explaining the relationship to Devilfish, FW, and how that plays out...

gun drones you get with the battleforce you wanna attach to stealth suits. They are now a 10 point jump troop with a stealth field. You can attach 2 to each stealth suit

BlackMath wrote: So, I will be running exactly what is in the box. That means I will be rinnung Stealth Suits, 1 (!) Crisis Suit, 12 FW, 1 Devilfish, 4 drones, and a sqad of Carnivores.

Soemone please to be explaining the relationship to Devilfish, FW, and how that plays out...

If I had to start over with just the B-Force box:
HQ Crisis Suit - Shas'el - Target Array, PR, MP, htMT
Stealths - all with BCs and Target Arrays. Then focus on infantry pounding
Devilfish w/ DisPod and FWs - either use a minimum FW unit of 6 and keep them inside *or* run the 12 FWs and use the FishofFury tactic* to have the 'fish move up to a unit, have the FWs deploy behind it and shoot underneath it at the enemy, within "Rapid Fire" range (12 inches). And hope that you completely destroy that target, as if *one* MEq survives he'll likely eat your FWs.
2nd option on D'Fish - Warfish - SMS, MT, Target Array DisPod. Move Combat Speed and shoot 7 dice of tau fun at a good Ballistic Skill.

*Yes, I know FoF doesn't quite work in 5th edition anymore, but it still doesn't mean that FoF isn't fun to do, or effective, with support.

Kroot - Use for Infiltrate to keep the enemy at bay *or* to Outflank and keep his deployment limited.

4 Gun Drones - I cannot believe how often this has worked: Deep Strike behind an enemy tank, and use the STR 5 guns to shoot its rear armor. Ka-BLOOEY!
A very cheap unit to harass the opponent's rear.

Most of what has been said is great advice. The only pearl i can offer is to not waste money on buying devilfish. Get the skyray box instead. It gives you all of the options you can put on any of their tanks. That's all, good luck!