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I've speculated this for a couple years, even started a few threads back at MWG, but there are only a couple other people as interested in fluff as I am back there.

I'm starting this thread to see what other people's ideas are for the future of the Imperium, Chaos, Tau and other factions. Here are some of the things i believe would happen.

1: The Imperium Bloodied and Beaten Back
Cadia, Armageddon, and many of the 'hot spots' of massive attacks that we've seen and loved for the last decade have fallen. After years of fighting the Imperium's realised it's only hope is to retreat to a tighter region of space to cover their territory more effectively and reduce the time for reinforcements to arrive. I imagine that this area of space would cover all of Segmentum Solar (Segmentum with Terra as the center) and the fringes of the other Segmentums. So about 1/4 of what the current Imperium is. Many of the worlds left behind have fallen into Anarachy, alien occupation or Chaos now that they don't have the Imperium watching over them.

2: The Marines...are questioning loyalty
Now by no means would this be another Horus Heresy, but I imagine many Chapters, after the Imperiums retreat from the space occupying many Marine homeworlds, would question their loyalty after a decade or so. Some would simply become renegades, pirates, or mercenaries. Others would turn to Chaos I imagine. But I can see 1/3 of the Chapters remaining loyal to humanity. Some, such as the Space Wolves, would refuse to take orders from the Imperium I'm sure. But even so, they'd still fight in the name of humanity I imagine.

3: 3rd Expansion was a smashing success!
With the retreat of the Imperium the 3rd expansion was much more of a breeze then any of the Etheral caste could've predicted. The Tau Empire is no longer a little dot on the Galaxy. Now it covers about half of the Western Fringe. Of course this also means that they have recieved the brunt of the Tyranid attacks. As such the rapid exansion of the Tau has slowed almost to a stop, now all their energy is focused on surviving rather then expanding the Greater Good.

4: Tyranids heading straight for the Eye of Terror
Some small Tendrils have already mad it to. So far the Shadow of the Warp hasn't been effecting the Eye much, it's more Turbulent than usual but that's it. But after centuries of failing to cross from the Galactic East, and South the HIve Mind has willed a Fleet of Bioships consisting of a massive 'mother tendril' heading straight for the Eye of Terror. who know's what the results of such a massive fleet could have on the Legions that call it home. Let alone what could happen to the Eye itself.



So those are just a few ideas of what I could see happening, any others?

Assuming the Imperium actually reduced its territory by 75%, they would be tremendously efficient, having no problem holding off other groups. I imagine that the worlds they still hold are now heavily populated by refugees, guardsmen, locals correct?

it would be alot less than a 1/4 of the size seeing as segmentum solar is relatively tiny

they would have to retake armageddon, seeing as its in segmentum solar

most space marine chapters live outside the segmentum solar, so where will they and all their infrastructure go when they are reposted

the segmentum solar has the oldest worlds with the least resourses, used up over the millenia, where are they gonna get the materials to resupply or the food to feed such a massive increase in population.

1-2 has some serious negative effect like BluntmanDC says.

a) ressources. Not only lack of lost infrastructure and materials but also less population to recrut from.
b) finance. Loss of 3/4 means loss of 3/4 of income too. Don't even get to "but the Emperor provides" as I am sure he would not agree with retreat.
c) focus the major fight in a tight spot and nearly any ork in this Galaxy will go there. Really need them all at your doorstep?

Thus, 1 and or 2 are a way to create a downwards spiral the species would never recover from.

3 Would be what Tau fans hope for, until they realize they got caught in a eternal stalemate. Pose 2 factions against each other seems unlikely to happen as
a scenario of "we against everyone else" generates better results than a Tau containment field of Nid bodies.
The benefits of a divergent Galaxy with the factions beeing just everywhere seems to outweigh the problems to explain how they got there.

4Why should the Hivemind show any interest in the EoT? Against endless hordes of demons, the nids strengths are useless.

The issue with retreat is, you (IoM) have to destroy your infrastructure or your worst enemy (chaos) employs it against you.
So humans and tech would just swell the hordes of chaos minions, raising the threat level further.

The sly thing to do:

- keep clear of any decisive victory for any faction. Thus all armies can stay.
- expand on the less fleshed out factions. Especially Necrons.
- never again propose to offer a change for any major fluff locations. It turned out badly with EoT/cadia....

Just how depleted are the worlds of Segmentum Solar? I am certain there are still countless worlds with veritable treasure troves of mineral wealth. If you condense the Imperium within such confines, you would have a much more centralized government with significantly less heresy, I think. Of course, it would mean abandon the Chapter Planets, which would crippled the IoM, but it might be a sound idea, otherwise.

Shrouger wrote:Just how depleted are the worlds of Segmentum Solar? I am certain there are still countless worlds with veritable treasure troves of mineral wealth. If you condense the Imperium within such confines, you would have a much more centralized government with significantly less heresy, I think. Of course, it would mean abandon the Chapter Planets, which would crippled the IoM, but it might be a sound idea, otherwise.

why send admech survey ships to the far end of the galaxy if there are worlds on mars' doorstep with resources? the segmentum solar has had human colonies since before the great crusade and is heavily populated, i would think most worlds with mineable resources have been used and the agri worlds present in the segmentum are probably hard pressed as is to support all the hive worlds, let alone all the influx of people.

The Administratum has hardly shown itself to be the most efficient system in the galaxy; it takes them centuries to update their records, after all. I think that a reduction in territory could probably help the Imperium on becoming more efficient and actually using its resources.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Shrouger wrote:Just how depleted are the worlds of Segmentum Solar? I am certain there are still countless worlds with veritable treasure troves of mineral wealth. If you condense the Imperium within such confines, you would have a much more centralized government with significantly less heresy, I think. Of course, it would mean abandon the Chapter Planets, which would crippled the IoM, but it might be a sound idea, otherwise.

why send admech survey ships to the far end of the galaxy if there are worlds on mars' doorstep with resources? the segmentum solar has had human colonies since before the great crusade and is heavily populated, i would think most worlds with mineable resources have been used and the agri worlds present in the segmentum are probably hard pressed as is to support all the hive worlds, let alone all the influx of people.

STCs. Just ONE of these babies would let the AdMech recreate the Golden Age of Science, returning all of humanity's former technology to the Imperium. You try to win against that!


Adressing the OPs ideas:

The Tyranids wouldn't care squat about the Eye of Terror, they're being drawn to the light of the Astronomican which, unfortunately, is situated on Terra. Thus, 'Nids keep eating their way against the Imperium.

The Tau wouldn't be able to expand too much because they do not have warp travel or equally effective FTL travel. And if the Imperium retreated, the Tyranids would obliterate the Tau Empire.

Regarding Cadia and Armageddon, they're not 'lost' per se. Armageddon has lost most of it's strategic importance but is still held by the Imperium. Cadia, while overrun, is still surrounded by the Imperial Navy, which will most certainly want to return controll of the Cadian Gate to the Imperium.

The 42nd Millennium?

I don't see the Imperium deliberately shrinking. The center of the imperium is not supporting all of mankind. Each region is approximately self-sufficient, and if I'm not mistaken a source of resources for the center to feed on. I don't think the imperium could seriously consider mass population relocation. There aren't enough new and unused locations to move to. If a region is abandoned, either the population there was wiped out or they will just continue on without having to send tithes back to the imperium. The abandoned regions might actually start doing better on their own. Anyway, that's how I see it.

Ok, my concerns with 1 and 2 have been posted above already.

for number 3, it feels like Tau fanfiction to me. The Tau are physically incapable to leaving their territory due to their inability to feel the Warp, thus eliminating Warp travel. They are unable to travel far enough distances to command such a large part of the galaxy, as they would not be able to say, reinforce other areas of their new Empire nor even travel/communicate amongst itself easily.

For number 4, the Tyranids would have no interest in the EoT. I doubt they can consume Daemons/Daemon Worlds (are they even physical, organic worlds?), and they would be at the full mercy of the Chaos Gods. The Gods have literally unlimited amounts of Daemons, and even the Tyranids are limited in some way. Also, the 'Nids would be more focused on Terra rather than the Eye, since, IIRC, the Astronomicon, the IoM beacon that allows Warp travel, is calling the Tyranids to our galaxy, and I would assume they'd go after that first. The Shadow in the Warp wouldn't do much, since while it keeps denizens of the Warp in the Warp, isn't the Eye both the Warp and real space, making that power useless?

After the 41st Millenium you get New Game+

Just reload your save data and you can start over again with all your level ups and loot.

Hopefully a Black Crusade that isn't absolutely useless...

Though I would imagine the Necrons would continue to wake, the 'Nids would continue to crash the party and the Tau would all get eaten.

The Orks may well start a few more mass migrations towards the EoT as well as towards the incoming waves of 'Nids (and stomp on anything that gets between them).

The IoM will continue to struggle desperately against everything, and despite loosing information, knowledge and technology constantly, the SM will continue to get 100's of new Land Raiders from Forge World, while Chaos get zip and have to struggle on with their crappy standard pattern LR.

And despite Chaos being a "warband" army of SM renegades (apparently), they will continue to lack most of the options that SM's do.

*shakes fist*

I would actually really like to see the inevitable Tyranid assault on Terra and the Astronomican made into a movie. Just imagine the carnage and action...

Heh, just imagine Luna...


"That's no moon, that's a space station! Oh wait, it IS the moon!"

Since the is cleared, maybe a possible timeline?

1st volunteer ( and maybe 1st to get shot for this):

M42
Its 6th ed and GW decided the chaos warbands take up too much shelf space. As they do not generate enough interest to have their dreads in plastic, the author of
thier 6th ed (and final ) codex sents them into the breach a last time. Abaddon the self-despoiler, attempts to gamble on his illusionary knowledge of a C'Tan at Mars.
His efforts in infiltrating Imperial space lead to a half-hearted summer campaign. There will be fluff to support the rise of a new leader of the warbands but firstly
Abby needs to go. So our (unnamed yet) author decides to use the never failing storyline of betrayal and unleashes chaos at a mission to split the mechanicum and the
administratum, the outcome obvious to anyone except abby, the warbands decide to 'support it' rather lame and in the end the C'Tan isn't a prisoner but a guest and
ally of the God-emporer ( who smithes the surprised Abby from afar with his dissapointment given psychic form ).
Imagine the nerdrage of this new "Big E and Dragon = BF" fluff!

its 6th ed and GW has to evade the endtimes somehow. Thus, Focus is moved from CC to shooting and Flyers are part of this edition.
Now, space elfs and space orks keep on doing whatever they did for millenia, just with new models. There is no reason to add to much new fluff for them
as buisness as usual works fine and so GW gets away with shiny stuff blinding the fans of the lack of substantial fluff advances.
The nids keep on eating but GW deems it funny to release a "multicodex-super-squad of super-heroes" expansion to allow players armies of mercenaries
( but these will be eaten too so 6th ed only army....) and to cash in the Tau get more suits and more xenos allies, so GW may tread the path of software again
with a so-so first person shooter. The eastern fringe now a great dinner table for nids, the astronomican=beacon=course of nid fleets has to be used too
so the boys in blue have to have another campaign ( with nid terrain pieces ) held and clever as GW's design team is, they have the BF's ready.
Nids move to Terra, Big E orders to let them pass, then his new C'tan BF disintegrates the gathered nid fleets in one single strike.

Did I use any SM? Hmm nearly forgot...

its 6th ed and GW has vampires and werewolves, but maybe the trend isn't at it anymore. So back to Knights in space....
Next step is to a) return the DA and expand on a Ad mech codex, b) add plastic sisters c) give IG a third choice of plastic regiment d) do the plastic T-hawk
lots of shiny stuff so some fluff to justify the models ( STC as usual ).

Status of 40k then:
- nids severly beaten, change course and ignore Terra..
- Orks participate wherever they come in time
- chaos is sick and tired of its warbands, a new leader gets a last chance...
- eldar still either high and leaving or dark and cloned...
- Tau bloodied and more educated ( stopped this meet and greet thingy ). Space pope sniped, opens the path to a powershift and etherals have less influence
as the allies and fire caste rise from 'listening to advisors' to 'can think for themselves and dare to disagree'.
- necrons rise and the C'tan split the force of necrons into factions.
- IoM manages to survive.

1hadhq wrote:1st volunteer ( and maybe 1st to get shot for this):

Not quite

I just hope the Dark Lord comes back to finish what he started

Edit: Though I do like the vision of SarcasmHammer 41k you have posed

I miss the dark lord

hahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAA

Yeah, right. Chaos would leave the eye of terror right before the imperium 'fell back'. They would exterminate entire systems, plunder their resources and gather more followers. They would be unstoppable. Chaos would gather up the shattered remains of society and the space marines, pledge them to their cause and destroy the imperium from the inside out. Then, after the Daemons have had their fill of human suffering and blood, they would fortify themselves with imperial goods.

They would be able to EASILY hold off the tyranids and any other threats that came their way. You see, no form of attack is off limits to the CSM. They could easily exterminate entire tendrils of hive fleets using nuclear and other extreme measures. There would be nothing left of the tyranids to attack the EOT, let alone hurt it.

more later. I love these kinds of threads.

Especially considering their numbers and power, where no spell or tactic is too forbidden (They could, for example, make the Eye grow, or invoke some ritual to summon many, many Bloodthirsters), and not even the sky is the limit. This would make Chaos literally unbeatable, they have a stronghold where they cannot lose, and if they assimilate the IoM, they'd have the resources to eliminate the 'Nids, given that they would even live a long enough lifespan (there are 10,000 year old CSM, while the oldest normal marine is Dante, who's only a thousand years old) in the Warp, they could actually win by attrition.

Finally, I believe with the whole of the IoM worshiping Chaos (tens of billions of souls), I can imagine the Eye growing as the Gods grow in power.

Only other race, from this scenarios, I can imagine surviving is the Orks. They are the most numerous race (I read somewhere how the IoM long ago sent out a singal probe that would release a signal whenever it detected intelligent life, it's still sending signals, and most of those signals represent Ork presence), and they reproduce constantly (spores), mind you the 'Nids hunger for organic things could make that interesting.

I don't get where everyone says that Tau are stuck in their corner of the galaxy. It's easily solved. Either they make a new ally that understands the warp enough to work out warp travel. Or they discover the same principles the Necrons use for space flight. They don't even have to discover the tech themselves if they find a Necron ship to reverse engineer.

Hmmm, I could imagine some sort of campaign there. A disabled Necron ship with a promise of technological riches to anyone that can take it.

Necrons - want to defend or destroy the ship

Imperial Guard - working with Mechanicum to pillage ships weapons and systems

Inquisition - Wants to destroy the heretical thing (whatever they can't get for themselves anyway). Or are aware of chaos prisoners (see Chaos below)

SM - Wouldn't the Iron Hands be interested in pillaging the ship? Some chapters might be working with Inquisition.

Tau - Want the ships drive tech and anything else they can get

Orks - What Mek wouldn't start a Waagh to get their hands on something like that?

Eldar - Ah, hate Necrons. Don't want other races getting better tech.

Tyranids - The ship had carried lots of prisoners for their soul food. Some prisoners survived crash and descendants lived on the planet. Tyranid scouts investigating planet note their genes are unique and interesting (from before Necrons went to sleep after all). Or perhaps prisoners are still in stasis in some parts of ship, which gives reason for Tyranids and others to directly contest an objective.

Chaos - Maybe ship was disabled by some warp artifact that is still with the ship. Or some of those prisoners in stasis still contain ancient daemons that are trapped in the stasis.

The ship could be a large one drifting in space. Or better for campaign purposes, it's scattered in large pieces on a planet or moon.

Elector wrote:Ok, my concerns with 1 and 2 have been posted above already.

for number 3, it feels like Tau fanfiction to me. The Tau are physically incapable to leaving their territory due to their inability to feel the Warp, thus eliminating Warp travel. They are unable to travel far enough distances to command such a large part of the galaxy, as they would not be able to say, reinforce other areas of their new Empire nor even travel/communicate amongst itself easily.

the tau arent, but their allies are, they could use the nicassar like navigators, and aquire the technology required from research or another race. i would think with the coming wave of tyranids more smaller alien empires will join the tau empire more rapidly for protection, giving the tau an even wider tech base.

well the nids could eat everything and only chaose would be left and id like to see the tau try to make friends with them

BluntmanDC wrote:

Elector wrote:Ok, my concerns with 1 and 2 have been posted above already.

for number 3, it feels like Tau fanfiction to me. The Tau are physically incapable to leaving their territory due to their inability to feel the Warp, thus eliminating Warp travel. They are unable to travel far enough distances to command such a large part of the galaxy, as they would not be able to say, reinforce other areas of their new Empire nor even travel/communicate amongst itself easily.

the tau arent, but their allies are, they could use the nicassar like navigators, and aquire the technology required from research or another race. i would think with the coming wave of tyranids more smaller alien empires will join the tau empire more rapidly for protection, giving the tau an even wider tech base.

If we're gonna start with assumptions like "oh but they'll have the tech because I say so" I'll point to the Star Child theory, and say that because it can happen, the Imperium wins. Kinda silly.

Exactly, because at that point we could just say the Squats will make allies with everyone and it will be one big happy galaxy.

With the rush of Tyranid invasions, given how smaller empires of alien races already seem hard to come by (the Great Crusade, Chaos invasions, Orks, and 'Nids seem to shut that down fairly quickly), whatever minor alien races that still remain woould be wiped out quickly. If they could "just make allies" to expand their empire, why don't they? They're spread out as much as they can already, aren't they?

Wolfmetal45 wrote:I've speculated this for a couple years, even started a few threads back at MWG, but there are only a couple other people as interested in fluff as I am back there.

I'm starting this thread to see what other people's ideas are for the future of the Imperium, Chaos, Tau and other factions. Here are some of the things i believe would happen.

1: The Imperium Bloodied and Beaten Back
Cadia, Armageddon, and many of the 'hot spots' of massive attacks that we've seen and loved for the last decade have fallen. After years of fighting the Imperium's realised it's only hope is to retreat to a tighter region of space to cover their territory more effectively and reduce the time for reinforcements to arrive. I imagine that this area of space would cover all of Segmentum Solar (Segmentum with Terra as the center) and the fringes of the other Segmentums. So about 1/4 of what the current Imperium is. Many of the worlds left behind have fallen into Anarachy, alien occupation or Chaos now that they don't have the Imperium watching over them.

2: The Marines...are questioning loyalty
Now by no means would this be another Horus Heresy, but I imagine many Chapters, after the Imperiums retreat from the space occupying many Marine homeworlds, would question their loyalty after a decade or so. Some would simply become renegades, pirates, or mercenaries. Others would turn to Chaos I imagine. But I can see 1/3 of the Chapters remaining loyal to humanity. Some, such as the Space Wolves, would refuse to take orders from the Imperium I'm sure. But even so, they'd still fight in the name of humanity I imagine.

3: 3rd Expansion was a smashing success!
With the retreat of the Imperium the 3rd expansion was much more of a breeze then any of the Etheral caste could've predicted. The Tau Empire is no longer a little dot on the Galaxy. Now it covers about half of the Western Fringe. Of course this also means that they have recieved the brunt of the Tyranid attacks. As such the rapid exansion of the Tau has slowed almost to a stop, now all their energy is focused on surviving rather then expanding the Greater Good.

4: Tyranids heading straight for the Eye of Terror
Some small Tendrils have already mad it to. So far the Shadow of the Warp hasn't been effecting the Eye much, it's more Turbulent than usual but that's it. But after centuries of failing to cross from the Galactic East, and South the HIve Mind has willed a Fleet of Bioships consisting of a massive 'mother tendril' heading straight for the Eye of Terror. who know's what the results of such a massive fleet could have on the Legions that call it home. Let alone what could happen to the Eye itself.



So those are just a few ideas of what I could see happening, any others?

1.That could never happen, even the Orks was in their biggest invasion and they where beaten back. Those worlds are just to important to Imperium to fall. Cadia would only fall if the Eye of Terror swallow it, even fully united Chaos have failed...

2. Space Marines are to loyal to Emperor to go Renegade just that. And Imperium is giving Space Marines more worlds with reason, and SM controlled system is better guarded that occasional Governour controlled system. And SM are bad-ass, and by giving them sectors they are saving troops for something else...

3.Tau will expand difficult because their space is now bordering with Ultramar. And we all now that Ultramarines are the "finest" Astartes out there. They repelled full scale Tyranid invasion, they will have no problem with Tau attacks... And Tau space is beeing invade by Tyranid fleet, and on few worlds Necron have begun to arise... So even Tau have a lot on their hands...

4. On this theme I cannot say much, but I imagine Imperium will let the Tyranids get trough. Eye is another reality, I imagine Tyranids beeing consumed by demons...

Personally, I reckon that Tyranids could adapt to eating Daemons and the like. I mean, why not, they've adapted to eating so many other things. Why couldn't they adapt to eating psychic energy? Don't some of them already absorb psychic energy. In fact, the fluff suggests that they are quite good at it!

Jihadnik wrote:Personally, I reckon that Tyranids could adapt to eating Daemons and the like. I mean, why not, they've adapted to eating so many other things. Why couldn't they adapt to eating psychic energy? Don't some of them already absorb psychic energy. In fact, the fluff suggests that they are quite good at it!

The fluff also suggest that those who try to mess with the Chaos Gods on their home field usually end up smashed, with the exception of certain god-like entities (Emperor comes to mind...).

One Greater Daemon is hard to beat, imagine hordes of Greater Daemons, leasing endless tides of lesser Daemons, forming a great, infinite host led by the Dark Gods themselves?

For each God separately:

1) Khorne: Khorne is the fething god of blood and slaughter, and the most powerful Chaos God at that. I doubt, on the battlefield, if he was actually there, and his host, they could not stop him without a god (or several) of their own.

2) Tzeentch: Beyond how he's the master of magic and change, able to mutate the Tyranids into....other things on a whim. His crystalline labyrinth and its illusions would be very hard to penetrate if they are mindless beasts, without enough sentience to understand which is the illusions and which is the truth.

3) Nurgle: Tyranids, a strongly organic race, have proven vulnerable to bio-toxins and other afflictions (especially given the fact that everything they are or have is organic flesh), Nurgle's plagues could prove catastrophic.

4) Slaanesh: Slaanesh's realm has the circles of temptation, most of which would prove useless, until they hit the Gluttony. Also, Slaanesh turns any who perceive him into his complete slaves. Given the concept of the Hive Mind, if every Tyranid shares the same consciousness, wouldn't they all fall prey at once?

The Chaos Gods have to reside in the Warp so it's unlikely/impossible for them to lead their hosts unless it's against other Warp entities.
Though if they just sent their hosts they could do it.
The Nids don't really seem to have the power to take on any 1 faction in a vaccum... actually no faction has that power.