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What makes them good in CC? I understand the +4 invulnerable save is pretty fierce for their low cost, but how are they going to wound the enemy with WS 4 and S 3?

I want to like them, but how can they win combats, rather than just tie up enemy units? Or is that what they're for?

Don't they have a 27'' possible assault range and have poisoned weapons? Also cheap allows for weight of numbers to overwhelm smaller squads.

Obviously you probably won't win against some of the more dedicated assault squads.

To answer the question posed in the Thread Title; 3.


Cheap + hard to kill means they grind down the enemy slowly; also, don't discount the drugs, or the leader with agoniser.

With hydra gauntlets, you're looking at 42+3D6 S3 attacks on a full squad charge, along with 4 agoniser attacks.

With a pain token, you've got a very good shot at winning against dedicated assault squads; it's getting shot at that is all bad news.

-Matt

My wych squads usually hold up things like vulkan and easily take down about 3-4 TH/SS termies in a few turns.

Against other things all you really need is a pain token and you're good to go with a 4++/FNP save.

Its the agonizer and the large amount of attacks that usually either have S4, reroll wound, extra attacks, etc from the combat drugs.

I'm pretty sure math hammer wise razor flails > hydra gauntlets on average.

Norade wrote:I'm pretty sure math hammer wise razor flails > hydra gauntlets on average.

Only problem, is that if you roll a 4 (I believe it is a 4), Razorflails are redundant.

revackey wrote:

Norade wrote:I'm pretty sure math hammer wise razor flails > hydra gauntlets on average.

Only problem, is that if you roll a 4 (I believe it is a 4), Razorflails are redundant.

If you sit down and really think hard about the hydra gauntlets and do the math they are better. If you just look at them against Marines they will be about the same but against opponents like orks and IG you will cause way more wounds then the razorflails.


Razorflails just keep you closer to the average of the bell curve against MEQ where Hydra gauntlets will push you to the far right of the bell curve more often and you will do about the same as razorflails.

If anyone is interested in the actual math, here is a summary I did.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328226.page

Essentially the results are that razorflails are very slightly superior overall (averaging all drug results) on regular wychs, but on bloodbrides they are far superior.

I use hydra gauntlets on regular wychs and razorflails on bloodbrides.

Wychs can win combat slowly against most targets. Normally when they are in combat against another CC unit they are fighting more points then they cost, so a slow win is worth it. The units should always have a shardnet in there to reduce incoming attacks from special CCWs. Once they have FNP, they will be very tough to take out by anything even close to their point cost.

My wych squads go 1x hydra gauntlets and 1x shardnet w/ hekatrix +agonizer

Bloodbrides are 9 strong with 2x razorflails, 1x shardnet and syren +agonizer. I run a succubus that goes in his squad. The 11 agonizer attacks on the assault with the other attacks win almost any combat, for only 250 points.

I prefer the shardnet and impaler on the Bloodbrides, razorflails on regular wyches!

Shardnet all the way.

Wyches die easily against most anything but units that have a low number of attacks that rely on ignoring armor. T3 with a 4++ still goes down with ease against regular infantry.

The best use for them, IMO, is to attach a really kill character to them and attack high threat targets like MCs, Dreads, Termies, etc. The Wyches can take away attacks with shardnets and soak damage, while the Sarge and IC kill the target with specialized equipment. Wyches on their own hit like a wet noodle, they aren't that impressive.

Wyches can cut right through just about any non meq unit, with a good CC save, a bunch of attacks, and the impressive shardnets they can have.

They have enough volume of attacks normally. The upgrades that give them more, or make one model re-roll doesn't really add that much to their killing power. The shardnets let them soak more damage, specifically against things like termies, MCs, and other things you would like to have tied up instead of rampaging through your army.

They aren't really good killing Meqs, or surviving high volume of attack units (death company is particularly dangerous) The shardnets can at least limit damage back when they are engaged with harder units.

Dracos wrote:<snip>

Thanks for the math work Dracos.