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AT the moment in the 40k universe picking up at stick is just as an effective weapon as having a monocular chainsaw. To me i have always found this amusing and even though i don't play an army with chainsaws if i do, i allow their chainsaws to be rending as it just seems more fluffy.What do you think?

chainSWORDS.

That is all

rending ... no too powerful.
When rolling to wound reroll ones ... maybe

+1 to tri, i like it. Rending would make it amazing against tanks which is dumb.

I like the re-roll to wound idea that Tri has, but then again I get chain swords for free :p. There used to be special rules for every close combat weapon in the game that was more advanced then a knife (and even some that weren't) this just made Close Combat way too complicated as it was:

"Ok, I have two chainswords, a Power Fist, and a Force Weapon vs your Chopper, Power Klaw bad moon terminator armor but wait you're also equiped with... which means..." etc Ad Infinum.

It also opened way too many loop holes in the game which I think was the bigger issue to be honest.

Besides if we are going for true realisim here then I don't care how good of a swordsmen you are there's NO WAY you'd be able to swing it THREE TIMES at me WHILE CHARGING!

Yes absolutely because Spess Mahreens NEED something to make them BETTER, clearly they're worthless atm.

Also computer who says that all 3 of those attacks come from the sword? Ever been in a knife fight? I've been training in them (Fake knives) but not all the attacks come from the weapon. I have another hand & 2 legs. Also on the charge imagine a 10 foot tall 600lb super hhuman psychopath bull rushing you hockey style & slamming into you with his shoulder. That's bound to hurt.

@Shas'O Dorian: It's been a while but yes I studied Eskrima for a few months. A Knife Fight is distinctly different from a sword fight I'll remind you, this was the first thing that our teacher made clear to us. I was just trying to point out the absudity of rationlising the rules in 40K

EDIT: The biggest difference between a sword fight and a knife fight is that with swords the winner will probably survive the encounter.

Indeed. I've also done a bit of Iado. But I see your point of trying to rationalize rules or anything else for that matter in 40k. Kinda pointless

Ok mister i have had knife fighting practise. na but kidding aside it doesnt work like that in the rules. When a guy attacks with a powerfist he uses all his attacks at strength 8 rather than 1 at strength 8 and 2 at his regular. And a chainsaw has spining blades to rend and rip alot more dangerous than a sword.

It's for simplicity sake. I was just saying not all attacks have to be made from the weapon but again do you really want "Well 1 attack from the fist, one from his foot up my arse, one from ramming his shoulder, 3 from chain swords. . . ad infinitum"

Changes that would be nice to see ...
Basic Weapons (normal weapons with bonuses when used, not applicable when combined with special weapons)

Bayonet ... +1 strength and -1 initiative first round of combat
Pistols ... can be fired as a close combat weapon using its strength and AP values. Any misses must be rerolled if the reroll hits then it hits some one in the same unit (including the firing model...don't ask). If a model has two pistols both may be fired but the model cannot make any other close combat attacks.
Flame throwers ... roll 2D6 to see how many enemy are hit the highest die is how many of your models are hit. Resolve at the strength and AP of the flamer. Both sides are at -1LD per casualty till the next player turn.

ComputerGeek01 wrote:I like the re-roll to wound idea that Tri has, but then again I get chain swords for free :p. There used to be special rules for every close combat weapon in the game that was more advanced then a knife (and even some that weren't) this just made Close Combat way too complicated as it was:

"Ok, I have two chainswords, a Power Fist, and a Force Weapon vs your Chopper, Power Klaw bad moon terminator armor but wait you're also equiped with... which means..." etc Ad Infinum.

Haha, it is true that there used to be much different rules, but they weren't as complicated as you make them out to be as you'd never want to run 2 chainswords and a Power Fist if you happened to have a Force Sword (which was way better than any of those!)

It was more like, okay I have a Force Sword versus your Bad Moon in Mega Armor which also happens to have a Power Fist and a Sword. That was about it. Swords granted parries (made you reroll an attack dice), and if each side had a sword the parries canceled out.

It also opened way too many loop holes in the game which I think was the bigger issue to be honest.

Besides if we are going for true realisim here then I don't care how good of a swordsmen you are there's NO WAY you'd be able to swing it THREE TIMES at me WHILE CHARGING!

What kind of loopholes were there? I'm honestly curious. In all my games of 2nd I've never found any loopholes.

What the OP is going for is intuitive, not realistic. It's intuitive to say that an axe is different from a sword. It's counterintuitive to say that a knife is as powerful as a chainsword because we know from the background that they're not.

If we were being realistic, there'd be no need for close combat in the far future. But it's pretty cool so we keep it.

Strangely enough, this keeps coming up at our club. I don't think they should be. Imagine what an Assault Squad could do on the turn it charges. And a BA Assault Squad....

Reroll ones would be better. Would help my CSM like a boss

given that every ork boy in a green tide, and all the nobz etc could ALL have chainblades for free... BOSS indeed.

What gets me is that a wrist mounted chainsword (chainfist) or Eviscerator (big chainsword) reap vehicles like no-one's business, but chain axes don't anymore (much to ork/CSM annoyance) and Eldar scorpion Chainsword/Chainsabres still do something, but chain knife/boot/walrus doesn't..

I know it's like asking to play russian roulette with a belt-fed grenade launcher, but a little cross-codex rules similarity would be nice.

I want my Choppa rule back too *grumbles*

IMO, re-rolls of s would be the best bet

My thinking-
Space Marine fighting Space Marine with Chainsword
They fight at the same time but because of the Chainsword, that space marine has more breathing room and longer range- allowing re-rolls or s

Chain Walrus?

But seriously, if GW made chainswords rending/re-roll ones, then BA would become vastly more powerful than they are currently.

Chain Swords do something. They let you be S4.
Scorpions, Marines, Chaos... just about anything with a chain sword is S4 instead of S3.

Think of marines as Strength 3.5, and it's the chain sword that puts them over the top.

I do miss all the special weapons, but without a clean up on wound resolution, I don't want them back. I liked when power axes and power swords were different.

Personally, I'd like to see taking bonus attack for 2 weapons with the off hand weapon too.

-Matt

But seriously, if GW made chainswords rending/re-roll ones, then BA would become vastly more powerful than they are currently.

Well the Blood Angels are cheap little generic space marines painted red with a primarch who just because has wings allows his cronies to deep strike with ungodly precision, get furious charge as well as take assault marines as troops and take flying landraiders (deepstrike a landraider or a stormraven.) So I think GW's last concerns are to short cut their favorite pet army the Blood Angels. So if BA got chainswords that could rend/re-roll s, I wouldn't be surprised.

Screw chainswords, I want that chain walrus.

S_P

My friend endlessly says they should, but would that be OP?
Hmmmm..

I am sooo converting that.. I have a spare AOBR warboss i'm not using... hmmmmm

Also if Marines are S 3.5 and a chainblade makes them 4, what about Orks. Look at the relative size of human, tau, eldar etc biceps, then look at the ork. Why are orks S 3? Shouldn't a chainblade make THEM S 4?

Not all marines carry Chainswords BTW, but all are S4 or more

Screw chain swords, I want my 3.5 CSM Chain Ax's rules back!

Grumble grumble damn bland codex grumble

Interesting idea about the S 3.5, except it doesn't work like that for guard lieutenants right?

I know that Striking Scorpions get S4 from their chainswords, but I did not think any other models did.

I wish close combat weapons worked like WFB, where strength modified armor saves. Then you could put armour peircing on the chainswords.

Re-rolling 1's to wound is an elegant approach however.

That'd work the same as Tyranid Scything Talons in the latest Dex, so it's not as if it doesn't have precedent.

I liked Scytals better when they added attacks, but rerolling misses is not too bad..

Bastion of Mediocrity wrote:Interesting idea about the S 3.5, except it doesn't work like that for guard lieutenants right?

I know that Striking Scorpions get S4 from their chainswords, but I did not think any other models did.

I wish close combat weapons worked like WFB, where strength modified armor saves. Then you could put armour peircing on the chainswords.

Re-rolling 1's to wound is an elegant approach however.

The Slaves to Darkness chaos weapons were the coolest. You rolled randomly for an ability, and one of them was that the weapon became a Chainsword. However, any enemy hit by this chainsword would have their armor save reduced by 1 permanently.

Lokirfellheart wrote:My friend endlessly says they should, but would that be OP?
Hmmmm..

So annoying that he keeps doing that.

Chainswords should actually be damned terrible at cracking armor given that they would tend to bind and throw chains when they caught something solid. For a test try cutting through
anything other than wood, like a rock or something like a car frame with a Chainsaw. No the blades aren't mono edged (not that those wouldn't dull near instantly) but nor are the materials you're cutting through up to 40k armor standards.

When I think Chainsword I think the same thing as Norade: how in heck is this thing supposed to actually be effetive at all? Yes, the teeth on your chainsword are super-tough materials, but most of the time so is the material you're attempting to cut through...

Back on topic, while it makes sense for a chainsword to be rending, it is silly to provide rending to otherwise already cost effective marines (and csm) for no extra charge.

jp400 wrote:Screw chain swords, I want my 3.5 CSM Chain Ax's rules back!

Grumble grumble damn bland codex grumble

+1 to this