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Hey guys, I need some help again Sorry if this has been answered before. My search-fu is weak tonight.

I know once a model with regen is wounded by a flaming attack, they lose regen for that phase, but what happens when the wounds are simultaneous at the same initiative? It seems to me that if me and my buddy both wound the regen model at the exact same time, the flaming attack should stop if from being healed since it was flamed at the exact same time before the wounds can heal.

Let's say I have a character with Initiative 4 with flaming attacks and the rest of the unit is also initiative 4 but does not have flaming attacks. If I am attacking a hydra with regeneration, does the hydra get a regen save from the models without the flaming attacks? For instance my character with FA wounds the hydra but since it is simultaneous, does that void the hydra's regen or does the hydra have a regen from the normal attacks but not from the flaming attack?

Thanks in advance for any help guys!

Edit: Oop sorry i post the question in the wrong forum, can a mod move it into the correct "you make da call forum". Thanks.

After the hydra takes a flaming wound, it loses regen.
At the same time is not after, he'd get to regen all of them.

Buy a 5 point potion for the +3 init.

-Matt

There was a painfully long discussion about this on the Warhammer Forum, but I'm definitely in the camp of any attacks at equal initiative will still have to go through that regen...

Just going to point one thing out.

In most situations where things happen simultaneously, the FAQ's say the active players turn gets to pick the order of events. I would honestly say this needs to be treated the same way, this will prevent arguments.

ShivanAngel wrote:Just going to point one thing out.

In most situations where things happen simultaneously, the FAQ's say the active players turn gets to pick the order of events. I would honestly say this needs to be treated the same way, this will prevent arguments.

Close combat attacks are not one of those cases though. Take a look at page 50, under striking order.
Where models have the same initiative, their attacks are made simultaneously.

I don't actually see any argument that lets you ignore that fights simultaneously.

If you could choose the sequence, you could have a unit throw attacks one at a time into enemy characters until they are dead, then put the rest on rank and file. I think people would have a cow if witch elves started tossing out 1 attack at a time. Likewise, you can't have a blood thrister throw 1 of his 7 attacks at a hero to test the waters then roll his remaining attacks. Clearly, this isn't how combat at the same initiative works. Just because flaming has a special effect after the wound is taken, doesn't mean that it is somehow faster, or allow to ignore the when you fight rules.

It's unfortunate that Regeneration was giving to the two most under-costed monsters in the game (hydra and hell pit abomination); and I believe it's peoples reaction to those monsters that is driving the "let's make regeneration worse" mindset. I've yet to hear something like this come up when facing plague bearers.

-Matt

Your also forgetting the grave guard star with the drakkenhoff or whatever its called banner that gives regen....

Sure its expensive but it just makes that unit stupid.

I thought you only lost regeneration AFTER making any and all saves, and therefore it has to come "after" rolling your regen saves for the non-flaming wounds?

I could be hallucinating however....possibly thinking of 6th...

nosferatu1001 wrote:I could be hallucinating however....possibly thinking of 6th...

Nope, you're right, since it takes an unsaved wound for flaming to remove regen.

This is part of why you generally take saves after ALL attacks have been rolled for an initiative step.

So then does that mean that the unit with regen would be able to make it's regen saves against a flaming attack since you have to cause a wound before regen is lost?

no you cannot make regen against flaming attacks period.

IF a flaming attack does a wound, then you cant make regen for ANY wound during that phase.

Infreak wrote:So then does that mean that the unit with regen would be able to make it's regen saves against a flaming attack since you have to cause a wound before regen is lost?

No since flaming (or was it regen too lazy to check) specifically forbids it, but you still get a chance to do your armor if any. Which allos for non flaming steps done at the same initiative to be regenerated, from that point forward regen is disabled for the rest of the phase.

Thats what I thought. It looks like I misunderstood what was being said.

I suppose my answer could have been better worded.