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I was just wondering if this gun is good enough for a competitive game or if it's too much of an oddball to use in a tourny.

Thanks!

It can be devastating against heavy infantry units, but broadly speaking, especially in tournies, every big mek with a SAG in your army is a big mek not carrying a KFF.

Most would skip over it, preferring to plan lists and tactics around units that are more likely to consistently perform at the level indicated by their statline. The SAG can be devastating, or it can kill itself and more of your units on turn one. That's just too much of a gamble for serious competitive players. Same deal with Weirdboys/Warpheads. They're fun, they're fluffy, but the fact that they can make or break a game based solely on a few random die rolls just doesn't jive with the standard tournament mentality. Even beyond that, there's the KFF you aren't taking, as was mentioned above, which is considered more or less mandatory by competitive Ork players.

It's a personal call, really, but the competitive response is a resounding "Hell no."

thanks for the responses, what would a competitive loota list look like?

Is there even such a thing as a competitive loota list?

Three units of 15 lootas?

You could make a workable infantry-based list using one Mek with a KFF and another Mek with the SAG. It wouldn't be as efficient as two KFFs, but given that you can also get cover saves from terrain for your shooty units, that's not a crippling deficiency.

i've found that a sag is not good in competetive lists unless you have points spare but even then there are better things for its price

I am going to a tourney at the end of the month and going to bring one. My plan is to have him be a stand alone threat. Place him where he has LOS to fire and preferably in cover, remember that the range is 60"! With my battlewagons, and trukks barreling down on my opponent, I don't think they can spare the attention.

QuietOrkmi wrote:I am going to a tourney at the end of the month and going to bring one. My plan is to have him be a stand alone threat. Place him where he has LOS to fire and preferably in cover, remember that the range is 60"! With my battlewagons, and trukks barreling down on my opponent, I don't think they can spare the attention.

Now thats a smart way to use one. Im a big fan of having multiple high threat units in my builds. The obvious reason is your opponent wont be able to make the best choice in which one to attack simply because there is many. Also, the SAG would probably be farther down on the list simply because its WAY in the back while the scarier stuff is already on its way. Im going to have to try that one

QuietOrkmi wrote:I am going to a tourney at the end of the month and going to bring one. My plan is to have him be a stand alone threat. Place him where he has LOS to fire and preferably in cover, remember that the range is 60"! With my battlewagons, and trukks barreling down on my opponent, I don't think they can spare the attention.

nice idea though if you could swap somthing in your list out for a 10 man squad of grots for a mere 40 points, grots are great for wounds on characters

The grots sound like a fantastic idea for the wound soak, but it is meant more as a throw away threat. Ideally no one will shoot at him because they are a little preoccupied by other threats.

Here is the link to the list...1850 Orks

I will have to remember to report on how it does...

the link dosn't work.

people will shoot the mek because of his potential to do damage, the trukks and battleagons are scary but it could take as long as 2 turns for the unit inside to get into combat and if you're opponent goes first you could lose a few trukks, your big mek might be required to shhot down squads of genstealers, khorne berzerkers, black templar terminators and other nasty stuff like that

A lone Big Mek is too easy to kill, IME. The grots idea is an excellent one though -- the grots get a bosspole & some serious staying power for sitting on that backfield objective, and the Mek gets ablative wounds.

moonshine wrote:the link dosn't work.

people will shoot the mek because of his potential to do damage, the trukks and battleagons are scary but it could take as long as 2 turns for the unit inside to get into combat and if you're opponent goes first you could lose a few trukks, your big mek might be required to shoot down squads of genstealers, khorne berzerkers, black templar terminators and other nasty stuff like that

Fixed the Link...

If they shoot at the Mek that is less shooting done at anything else. Do not forget that I can hide the trukks behind the battle wagons. In addition the 4+ obscured save granted by the KFF is tough to get through when combined with people's BS. A space marine will only hit the trukk 2/3 times, combined with the 1/2 the force field works and you are looking at a 33% success rate before penetration and vehicle damage chart. Heck, even a multi-melta within melta range has less then a 33% rate.

The Idea is that any choice they make is the wrong choice. The SAG could just have 1 firing lane to keep the enemy from going in that direction. Think of him as you would 6 Lootas, any fire directed at them will wipe them off the board. If I can shrink my opponent's mobility and board space then I can further maximize my ability to get the multi-assault that is advantageous to me.

I'm taking one to tourney this month, but the whole list was built to enjoy the orky randomness, and i don't much care if i win or lose, as long as i get to ork out the other players

theduncan wrote:thanks for the responses, what would a competitive loota list look like?

Is there even such a thing as a competitive loota list?

my loota list:

big mek with KFF
warboss with warbike/pclaw

15 lootas
15 lootas
15 lootas

6 NOb bikers with the normal setup
10 gretchins
10 gretchins
10 gretchins

battle weagon with 4 big shootas
battle weagon with 4 big shootas
battle weagon with 4 big shootas

put the lootas inside the (open topped) battle wagons and start shooting. Put the 3 battle wagons in a row and the Big mek stays behind the middle battle wagon and gives them all a 4+ obscured save. Boss with nobbikers go hunting and gretchins come out of reserves and run towards the counters.

maybe not the best list but I like it..

If you do use a shokk attack gun, and like others I do not recommend it, you should put him with a largish grot unit (19 + Runtherder) for the ablative wounds. The SAG and grots can sit on an objective and take shots at things.

There is a unit with a random portion to it every turn in every slot except troops in the Ork Codex:

HQ:
Big Mek /w SAG
Weirdboy

Elites:
Lootas

FA:
Storm Boyz

HS:
Flash Gits

With the exception of Lootas, none of these are widely considered a competitive list.

Personally I find both the SAG Mek and the weirdboy great fun, but if you're playing competitively you're playing to win ( if not necessarily WAAC) and a unit that can hurt your own army doesn't make the cut.

The SAG has an overwhelming number of negative and mediocre results than positive results on it's chart. The only safe way to get Str 10 is a 6 and a 4, two 5's launch you into assault with whatever you were shooting at, and a 6 and a 5 only produces a hit under the center hole, and the SAG may not be fired next turn. you also have two possible oppertunities to shoot your own forces without counting scatter on BS 2, the possibilty of getting a much weaker small blast shot, and the ever popular destroy himself and everything within d6".

But, there is alway the dream of dropping the blast over the Swarmlord, three tyrant guards, and a Prime with

QuietOrkmi wrote:

moonshine wrote:the link dosn't work.

people will shoot the mek because of his potential to do damage, the trukks and battleagons are scary but it could take as long as 2 turns for the unit inside to get into combat and if you're opponent goes first you could lose a few trukks, your big mek might be required to shoot down squads of genstealers, khorne berzerkers, black templar terminators and other nasty stuff like that

Fixed the Link...

If they shoot at the Mek that is less shooting done at anything else. Do not forget that I can hide the trukks behind the battle wagons. In addition the 4+ obscured save granted by the KFF is tough to get through when combined with people's BS. A space marine will only hit the trukk 2/3 times, combined with the 1/2 the force field works and you are looking at a 33% success rate before penetration and vehicle damage chart. Heck, even a multi-melta within melta range has less then a 33% rate.

The Idea is that any choice they make is the wrong choice. The SAG could just have 1 firing lane to keep the enemy from going in that direction. Think of him as you would 6 Lootas, any fire directed at them will wipe them off the board. If I can shrink my opponent's mobility and board space then I can further maximize my ability to get the multi-assault that is advantageous to me.

imo you should take the buzzsaws off the koptas and buy a 10 man squad of grotz, your sag will do more damadge than 2 powerfists

SAG are unreliable, Deff Koptas are reliable for taking out vindicators...

I would rather not more spend points on something that might do something in favor for something I know that works... If the Big mek dies, he dies... but he died distracting my opponent so that the other ladz could get into the fight.

I can't speak for tournament play with the Shokk Attack Gun, but there are several army list configurations I can think of which make good use of him.

As was said earlier, any Big Mek you give a SAG to is a Mek without a KFF. The best lists to use the Shokk Attack Gun in are lists which don't NEED a KFF. For example, a list that centers around 2 Battlewagons loaded with Boyz / Nobz and a couple of squads of Bikers has no need of a 2nd KFF. Obviously you want 1 of them for your Battlewagon, but 1 is all you need since your Bikes take their cover save with them. You are choosing between a Warboss and a SAG Mek basically. Most people would choose the Warboss, but a SAG can easily be fit into this list, especially if you include Lootas or Artillery.

People lament that it's hard to get a S10 shot with the SAG. Of course it is. Honestly though, with the SAG what you WANT to get is an 8 or 9 most of the time. You don't need to get a 10. The SAG SHOULD be fired at heavy infantry with a 3+ Armour save, which will usually be T4. All you need to instant-death a T4 model is an 8, which is statistically fairly likely to happen. If you're only firing at a MEQ equivalent force with 1 wound each, even a result of 6 is enough to Wound on 2's and deny the armor save. Firing the SAG at T5 models isn't nearly as effective.

If you're using the SAG to fire at high-armour vehicles and you need that S10 shot... you're not using the SAG right.

If used correctly with correct type of list, and with a lucky roll, a SAG Mek can win the game for you, or be completely ineffectual at worst. Always bring the Ammo Runt!

If used badly in the wrong type of list, he'll be a waste of points at best, or hinder your list as opposed to helping at worst. (i.e. never mount your SAG in a Battlewagon. First, if the Battlewagon gets stunned, the SAG can't fire, and if you mishap, you risk destroying the Battlewagon)

yes but if you want a big mek to keep the boyz alive take anothe kff and bunch the trukks together